Xen and KVM - Who is using what and why?
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It is not unlike the Linux discussions. People often ask me "If you prefer CentOS, why did you deploy Ubuntu?" And the answer is so obvious that I'm always confused by the question - because the thing that I needed to run runs best or only on Ubuntu.
No matter how much I prefer CentOS, it doesn't mean I would chose it over the better business choice, the differences between CentOS and Ubuntu are simply too small.
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I think the original question would make more sense like this.
"If there was a vendor who offered a Hyperconverged solution like the HC3, but with XenServer, would you have picked that vendor over scale and why?"
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@FATeknollogee said in Xen and KVM - Who is using what and why?:
A lot of folks on this site have praised/raved about the XS/XOA combo.
Is KVM worthy of being looked at?
That's why we praise it, because it's a combo (or bundle.) I've even proposed calling it XS/XO (btw, many of us have never used XOA, not sure how many people are promoting that) instead of XS to make it clear that it is the combination that makes it make sense.
KVM is a great product. But you can't compare XS to KVM let alone XS/XO to KVM. If you want to do that, you need to determine your entire KVM stack to compare against. For example, is Scale HC3 (KVM) worth comparing to XS/XO (Xen)? Yes. Those are far more comparable items.
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@DustinB3403 said in Xen and KVM - Who is using what and why?:
I think the original question would make more sense like this.
"If there was a vendor who offered a Hyperconverged solution like the HC3, but with XenServer, would you have picked that vendor over scale and why?"
And it would still come back to... it's the solution that matters, not "how they arrived at the solution."
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This is, in the most literal sense, getting caught up in details "under the hood."
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@FATeknollogee said in Xen and KVM - Who is using what and why?:
Let me try to "re-phrase" the question...
...btw @JaredBusch I like the "poo as monkey phrase..."A lot of folks on this site have praised/raved about the XS/XOA combo.
Is KVM worthy of being looked at?
There is a bit of fanboy cult thing to some of the the XS love around here.
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@JaredBusch said in Xen and KVM - Who is using what and why?:
There is a bit of fanboy cult thing to some of the the XS love around here.
As @scottalanmiller said above, it's the combination of the tools to make a robust solution that create fanboys.
@scottalanmiller said in Xen and KVM - Who is using what and why?:
For example, is Scale HC3 (KVM) worth comparing to XS/XO (Xen)? Yes. Those are far more comparable items.
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@JaredBusch said in Xen and KVM - Who is using what and why?:
@Dashrender said in Xen and KVM - Who is using what and why?:
@scottalanmiller said in Xen and KVM - Who is using what and why?:
We've primarily moved to KVM before we are running Scale HC3 which has it built in under the hood.
So you like KVM these days better than XS?
Really a WTF moment to start off your entire involvement in the thread.
Scott said 'before' which lead to my question.
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@scottalanmiller said in Xen and KVM - Who is using what and why?:
And it would still come back to... it's the solution that matters, not "how they arrived at the solution."
"how they arrived at the solution" is a big part of the equation?
Would you have arrived at the same solution if the cost was $xxx? -
@JaredBusch said in Xen and KVM - Who is using what and why?:
There is a bit of fanboy cult thing to some of the the XS love around here.
Time to start the Hyper-V cult?
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@FATeknollogee said in Xen and KVM - Who is using what and why?:
@JaredBusch said in Xen and KVM - Who is using what and why?:
There is a bit of fanboy cult thing to some of the the XS love around here.
Time to start the Hyper-V cult?
Absolutely not. Any cult is bad, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Wicca, Cthulu, wtf ever. This is business not religion.
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@JaredBusch said in Xen and KVM - Who is using what and why?:
Absolutely not. Any cult is bad, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Wicca, Cthulu, wtf ever. This is business not religion.
These days I simply assume religion is a biz, it helps me wade through all the BS quicker
btw, I do not subscribe to the anti MSFT theme that seems to be quite prevalent on this site
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@FATeknollogee said in Xen and KVM - Who is using what and why?:
btw, I do not subscribe to the anti MSFT theme that seems to be quite prevalent on this site
Nor do I. And I don't think that there is as much as you think. But it certainly exists. I recommend Windows all the time, when it is appropriate. I'm way more of a Microsoft supporter than anyone that still runs Windows 7, IMHO.
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@stacksofplates said in Xen and KVM - Who is using what and why?:
I use KVM. It's built into Red Hat, and really easy to use.
What makes it really easy to use & vs what other platforms?
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@stacksofplates said in Xen and KVM - Who is using what and why?:
@scottalanmiller said in Xen and KVM - Who is using what and why?:
KVM lacked tools like XenServer and XenOrchestra, backup vendor support and so forth
It hasn't. Virt-Manager has been around for a long time. XenServer doesn't have any backup vendor support. The only support is agent based, which is exactly what KVM has. You also have backup options through QEMU and libvirt.
Does XOA not count as backup vendor support?
Is anyone developing a host based backup for KVM?
What's the difference between Virt-Manager & oVirt?
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@FATeknollogee said in Xen and KVM - Who is using what and why?:
@stacksofplates said in Xen and KVM - Who is using what and why?:
I use KVM. It's built into Red Hat, and really easy to use.
What makes it really easy to use & vs what other platforms?
It's really straight forward both in administration and in setup. I'd say with Virt-Manager/virsh it's easier to use than XenServer and XenCenter (without XenOrchestra, just the Citrix pieces).
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@FATeknollogee said in Xen and KVM - Who is using what and why?:
@stacksofplates said in Xen and KVM - Who is using what and why?:
@scottalanmiller said in Xen and KVM - Who is using what and why?:
KVM lacked tools like XenServer and XenOrchestra, backup vendor support and so forth
It hasn't. Virt-Manager has been around for a long time. XenServer doesn't have any backup vendor support. The only support is agent based, which is exactly what KVM has. You also have backup options through QEMU and libvirt.
Does XOA not count as backup vendor support?
Is anyone developing a host based backup for KVM?
What's the difference between Virt-Manager & oVirt?
XOA could count. No specific backup only vendors. KVM has Acronis.
I'm not using host-based backup anyway for KVM. I'm using all agent based, because I can spin up templates faster than a restore from a backup and I can manage the install/setup with Ansible.
oVirt is a whole platform vs Virt-Manager being just a management interface.
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@Dashrender This is really the case with most cloud platform overlays also.
If I'm "using" Pivitol Cloud Foundry then the back end (Azure/AWS/SoftLayer) matters less for the day to day.
I've seen customers use CMP's that could provision to In house, AWS, Softlayer and it actually showed the cost models for each on a given deployment (so they could cross compare).
On one hand the hypervisor (for day to day) matters less if it's abstracted but it still does matter. In other ways it matters more (if the platform associated with it, offers network virualization, features that lower cost or speed actions like forked VM). The support model matters a hell of al to more than people give it credit (Why people like HCI appliances, the all in support model).
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@FATeknollogee said in Xen and KVM - Who is using what and why?:
Saying one moved to Scale because it's KVM is like saying I moved to Nutanix because it's KVM!
Let me re-phrase the question: Was the move to Scale done because it was technically superior to XS or was it financially motivated?
The challenge for both Scale and Nutanix is that KVM REALLY isn't the reason as they don't expose the native KVM API's and so products that would layer on top of KVM (Cloud Forms, vRealize Automation etc) are effectively broken unless re-written for their own proprietary API's. (In Scale's case with target customers and market this doesn't really matter in Nutanix's case this leads customers with heavy interop with other things like CMP, to end up running vSphere for the most part).
In this regard a reason someone might choose KVM (Open Platform) or Xen (Public robust API's) actually is the LAST reason you would choose Scale/Nutanix as they are more difficult to interact with from 3rd party tools than a AS400
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KVM with Virtmanager.
Centos latest is my preferred KVM host.
And Fedora LXDE Spin is my preferred Virt-Manager choice, I use it from inside Windows using Virtualbox.Cause it resembles the old ESXi Philosophy with Vsphere C# client
And you can do whatever you want with it, and for free. Especially when you use virt IO drivers for network and disk, you get nearly identical bare metal speeds.But sadly its lacking other tools to allow users to connect and use the VM, you will have to do this from inside the VM like RDP and VNC.
