I am going to start an ISP



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  • @nerdydad said in I am going to start an ISP:

    Update.

    I know this person well enough that they are not going to steal my business idea, start their own, and leave me out in the cold.

    Maybe you are right. Everyone thinks this until they are proven wrong though



  • This still moving forward?



  • I've been mulling this one over long and hard. A couple of problems still in my way:

    1. Initial costs for 1st year startup. I can become profitable within 6 months if I quit this job and work solely on that, but coming up with the money upfront to get it up and going, getting customers, cash flow, etc, is a little daunting. There is an opportunity for me to receive a good investment if I can get one of the costs down. Haven't tackled that avenue yet. I need to get back on that.

    2. With Elon Musk's potential of Stars coming to fruition would just about put this project to bed within a couple of years. To me, there is a 50/50 chance of Stars coming into fruition, and, if it does, its going to still be a couple of years down the road. If it doesn't, or doesn't pan out to what I'm thinking it is going to be, then I still have a market to compete in.

    Advice?



  • @nerdydad said in I am going to start an ISP:

    Initial costs for 1st year startup. I can become profitable within 6 months if I quit this job and work solely on that, but coming up with the money upfront to get it up and going, getting customers, cash flow, etc, is a little daunting. There is an opportunity for me to receive a good investment if I can get one of the costs down. Haven't tackled that avenue yet. I need to get back on that.

    6 Month turn around! That's pretty amazing. Most SMBs never turn a profit and if they do it's several years down the road. Several people I've talked to say you should be prepared to not make a profit (and potentially not pay yourself) in the first 5 years.



  • @nerdydad said in I am going to start an ISP:

    I've been mulling this one over long and hard. A couple of problems still in my way:

    1. Initial costs for 1st year startup. I can become profitable within 6 months if I quit this job and work solely on that, but coming up with the money upfront to get it up and going, getting customers, cash flow, etc, is a little daunting. There is an opportunity for me to receive a good investment if I can get one of the costs down. Haven't tackled that avenue yet. I need to get back on that.

    I would only do this with investment. you need to hit the ground hard and fast and you'll likely want to sell the company off in under five years as the market for this stuff is volatile and could go away any second.



  • @coliver said in I am going to start an ISP:

    @nerdydad said in I am going to start an ISP:

    Initial costs for 1st year startup. I can become profitable within 6 months if I quit this job and work solely on that, but coming up with the money upfront to get it up and going, getting customers, cash flow, etc, is a little daunting. There is an opportunity for me to receive a good investment if I can get one of the costs down. Haven't tackled that avenue yet. I need to get back on that.

    6 Month turn around! That's pretty amazing. Most SMBs never turn a profit and if they do it's several years down the road. Several people I've talked to say you should be prepared to not make a profit (and potentially not pay yourself) in the first 5 years.

    Chad's right, six months to profits is insanely fast. That's unheard of.



  • @nerdydad said in I am going to start an ISP:

    With Elon Musk's potential of Stars coming to fruition would just about put this project to bed within a couple of years. To me, there is a 50/50 chance of Stars coming into fruition, and, if it does, its going to still be a couple of years down the road. If it doesn't, or doesn't pan out to what I'm thinking it is going to be, then I still have a market to compete in.

    Starlink is going to be a game changer for the WISP market. You won't have much of a market in 5-10 years if/when it comes out for the masses.



  • @coliver said in I am going to start an ISP:

    @nerdydad said in I am going to start an ISP:

    With Elon Musk's potential of Stars coming to fruition would just about put this project to bed within a couple of years. To me, there is a 50/50 chance of Stars coming into fruition, and, if it does, its going to still be a couple of years down the road. If it doesn't, or doesn't pan out to what I'm thinking it is going to be, then I still have a market to compete in.

    Starlink is going to be a game changer for the WISP market. You won't have much of a market in 5-10 years if/when it comes out for the masses.

    Is that what everybody is predicting? 5-10 years? I think I could do about everything that I wanted to do with it in 5 years, then sell off the company.



  • @nerdydad said in I am going to start an ISP:

    @coliver said in I am going to start an ISP:

    @nerdydad said in I am going to start an ISP:

    With Elon Musk's potential of Stars coming to fruition would just about put this project to bed within a couple of years. To me, there is a 50/50 chance of Stars coming into fruition, and, if it does, its going to still be a couple of years down the road. If it doesn't, or doesn't pan out to what I'm thinking it is going to be, then I still have a market to compete in.

    Starlink is going to be a game changer for the WISP market. You won't have much of a market in 5-10 years if/when it comes out for the masses.

    Is that what everybody is predicting? 5-10 years? I think I could do about everything that I wanted to do with it in 5 years, then sell off the company.

    SpaceX alone has a "all services like this will be dead" end date of 2024 with most being crushed between 2020 and that time. And that is just one carrier. You've got a dozen or more serious contenders for "making your market go away" playing in a similar time frame, and all of them aware of and racing against SpaceX.



  • @nerdydad said in I am going to start an ISP:

    @coliver said in I am going to start an ISP:

    @nerdydad said in I am going to start an ISP:

    With Elon Musk's potential of Stars coming to fruition would just about put this project to bed within a couple of years. To me, there is a 50/50 chance of Stars coming into fruition, and, if it does, its going to still be a couple of years down the road. If it doesn't, or doesn't pan out to what I'm thinking it is going to be, then I still have a market to compete in.

    Starlink is going to be a game changer for the WISP market. You won't have much of a market in 5-10 years if/when it comes out for the masses.

    Is that what everybody is predicting? 5-10 years? I think I could do about everything that I wanted to do with it in 5 years, then sell off the company.

    That's what I've heard, I think it was an Ars article that was predicting 2023 would be the go live date.



  • @nerdydad said in I am going to start an ISP:

    I think I could do about everything that I wanted to do with it in 5 years, then sell off the company.

    Selling companies is a hard thing to do. You need someone with money, who things that the company has a future. You will likely have to sell before five years. Because once you have a competitor, it's all over.



  • So the first thought is... every day you don't get this rolling, if it really is six months to profits, is massively lost opportunity. Each day represents a sizable chunk of your total run time.



  • I'm still amazed at the 6 month turn around. If your RIO is under or about 6 months then this is a really good opportunity.


  • Vendor

    @scottalanmiller said in I am going to start an ISP:

    SpaceX alone has a "all services like this will be dead" end date of 2024 with most being crushed between 2020 and that time. And that is just one carrier. You've got a dozen or more serious contenders for "making your market go away" playing in a similar time frame, and all of them aware of and racing against SpaceX.

    5G in urban, LTE-A upgrades in rural. There is a trillion dollar domestic capital spend happening right now on the ground. SMB's are going to be a niche hobby business very quickly.


  • Vendor

    @NerdyDad said in I am going to start an ISP:

    Looks like I have a potential investor. We've talked about numbers and the biggest concern they have is the monthly backhaul charges. They're thinking that we can negotiate the supplier down if we offer to pay for a year up front

    If you're talking about a Fiber/ISP backhaul they will factor in buildout costs on a 3-5 year contract but....

    1. You don't get to adopt price reduction over that time for peering.
    2. If your credit sucks they will likely take the risk even less.
    3. What happens if this supplier goes to crap? Do you have peering diversity as a plan? TWTC went from having amazing peering, to only being absolute crap. For IPv4 are you going to do carrier grade NAT?

    Verizon is offering no caps, 300Mbps service for $50 soon in my city. I expect the wireless carriers to aggressively move into rural WISP business.



  • @StorageNinja said in I am going to start an ISP:

    Verizon is offering no caps, 300Mbps service for $50 soon in my city. I expect the wireless carriers to aggressively move into rural WISP business.

    That's the biggest risk, the wireless carriers with 5G. TMobile promises nationwide roll out in like one year.


  • Vendor

    @scottalanmiller said in I am going to start an ISP:

    That's the biggest risk, the wireless carriers with 5G. TMobile promises nationwide rollout in like one year.

    To be fair Sprint and T-Mobile I thought were going to do fake 5G (LTE-A) initially but hey, if they can deliver a 500GB or higher data cap, 10ms to the tower, and 100Mbps connections I think rural WISPS are dead overnight.



  • @StorageNinja said in I am going to start an ISP:

    @scottalanmiller said in I am going to start an ISP:

    That's the biggest risk, the wireless carriers with 5G. TMobile promises nationwide rollout in like one year.

    To be fair Sprint and T-Mobile I thought were going to do fake 5G (LTE-A) initially but hey, if they can deliver a 500GB or higher data cap, 10ms to the tower, and 100Mbps connections I think rural WISPS are dead overnight.

    Pretty much this



  • @StorageNinja said in I am going to start an ISP:

    @scottalanmiller said in I am going to start an ISP:

    That's the biggest risk, the wireless carriers with 5G. TMobile promises nationwide rollout in like one year.

    To be fair Sprint and T-Mobile I thought were going to do fake 5G (LTE-A) initially but hey, if they can deliver a 500GB or higher data cap, 10ms to the tower, and 100Mbps connections I think rural WISPS are dead overnight.

    Who need that much speed, anyway. Almost no one can use 100Mb/s if they can get it. The needs for more speed is mostly a myth.

    In rural eastern Europe, 300Mb/s 4G is a reality and has been for years. Plenty speed to handle almost anything.



  • @scottalanmiller said in I am going to start an ISP:

    In rural eastern Europe, 300Mb/s 4G is a reality and has been for years. Plenty speed to handle almost anything

    I'm lucky to get 30 Mbps 4G LTE here....



  • @Obsolesce said in I am going to start an ISP:

    @scottalanmiller said in I am going to start an ISP:

    In rural eastern Europe, 300Mb/s 4G is a reality and has been for years. Plenty speed to handle almost anything

    I'm lucky to get 30 Mbps 4G LTE here....

    LTE is 3G. Most American 4G is actually slower than 3G (which is why all the big carriers here use 3G LTE instead of actual 4G). The "G" is the signally standard, not a reference to the speed. Each new generation can go faster than the old ones, but you can use it to go slower, if you want.

    Real 4G will go much faster than 3G LTE. Real 5G will blow the doors off of that. If you give it the bandwidth.

    Think of it like copper and fiber. Fiber can go faster, but in the real world, it's all down to the speed that you select and lots of copper goes faster than fiber in real deployments. Both go really fast and really slow, if you want them to. But if you need the ultimate speed, fiber can go insanely fast.



  • @scottalanmiller said in I am going to start an ISP:

    @Obsolesce said in I am going to start an ISP:

    @scottalanmiller said in I am going to start an ISP:

    In rural eastern Europe, 300Mb/s 4G is a reality and has been for years. Plenty speed to handle almost anything

    I'm lucky to get 30 Mbps 4G LTE here....

    LTE is 3G. Most American 4G is actually slower than 3G (which is why all the big carriers here use 3G LTE instead of actual 4G). The "G" is the signally standard, not a reference to the speed. Each new generation can go faster than the old ones, but you can use it to go slower, if you want.

    Real 4G will go much faster than 3G LTE. Real 5G will blow the doors off of that. If you give it the bandwidth.

    Think of it like copper and fiber. Fiber can go faster, but in the real world, it's all down to the speed that you select and lots of copper goes faster than fiber in real deployments. Both go really fast and really slow, if you want them to. But if you need the ultimate speed, fiber can go insanely fast.

    Current connection says LTE+. What's that?

    I always thought that T-Mobile was giving me 4G/LTE. Didn't know it was 3G.



  • @Obsolesce said in I am going to start an ISP:

    @scottalanmiller said in I am going to start an ISP:

    @Obsolesce said in I am going to start an ISP:

    @scottalanmiller said in I am going to start an ISP:

    In rural eastern Europe, 300Mb/s 4G is a reality and has been for years. Plenty speed to handle almost anything

    I'm lucky to get 30 Mbps 4G LTE here....

    LTE is 3G. Most American 4G is actually slower than 3G (which is why all the big carriers here use 3G LTE instead of actual 4G). The "G" is the signally standard, not a reference to the speed. Each new generation can go faster than the old ones, but you can use it to go slower, if you want.

    Real 4G will go much faster than 3G LTE. Real 5G will blow the doors off of that. If you give it the bandwidth.

    Think of it like copper and fiber. Fiber can go faster, but in the real world, it's all down to the speed that you select and lots of copper goes faster than fiber in real deployments. Both go really fast and really slow, if you want them to. But if you need the ultimate speed, fiber can go insanely fast.

    Current connection says LTE+. What's that?

    I always thought that T-Mobile was giving me 4G/LTE. Didn't know it was 3G.

    LTE is a specific 3G technology. 3G is a generation, LTE is a specific 3G implementation. It's the fastest tech currently deployed in the US until 5G rolls out.

    LTE Advanced (written LTE+) is a better form of LTE, but is still 3G.

    One of the key errors in American marketing is being concerned about how a product reaches its speeds, rather than the speeds and quality of the resulting service. No one should care that LTE is 3G or 4G, that's crazy to care. If you are a wireless scientist and interested in signally, sure, it is a point of interest. But as a consumer, there is literally no value in knowing the "generation of signalling" used. But for some reason in the US market, knowing the "generation" of the technology has become vastly more important to consumers than the quality or speed or even cost of the resulting service!



  • @scottalanmiller said in I am going to start an ISP:

    @Obsolesce said in I am going to start an ISP:

    @scottalanmiller said in I am going to start an ISP:

    @Obsolesce said in I am going to start an ISP:

    @scottalanmiller said in I am going to start an ISP:

    In rural eastern Europe, 300Mb/s 4G is a reality and has been for years. Plenty speed to handle almost anything

    I'm lucky to get 30 Mbps 4G LTE here....

    LTE is 3G. Most American 4G is actually slower than 3G (which is why all the big carriers here use 3G LTE instead of actual 4G). The "G" is the signally standard, not a reference to the speed. Each new generation can go faster than the old ones, but you can use it to go slower, if you want.

    Real 4G will go much faster than 3G LTE. Real 5G will blow the doors off of that. If you give it the bandwidth.

    Think of it like copper and fiber. Fiber can go faster, but in the real world, it's all down to the speed that you select and lots of copper goes faster than fiber in real deployments. Both go really fast and really slow, if you want them to. But if you need the ultimate speed, fiber can go insanely fast.

    Current connection says LTE+. What's that?

    I always thought that T-Mobile was giving me 4G/LTE. Didn't know it was 3G.

    LTE is a specific 3G technology. 3G is a generation, LTE is a specific 3G implementation. It's the fastest tech currently deployed in the US until 5G rolls out.

    LTE Advanced (written LTE+) is a better form of LTE, but is still 3G.

    One of the key errors in American marketing is being concerned about how a product reaches its speeds, rather than the speeds and quality of the resulting service. No one should care that LTE is 3G or 4G, that's crazy to care. If you are a wireless scientist and interested in signally, sure, it is a point of interest. But as a consumer, there is literally no value in knowing the "generation of signalling" used. But for some reason in the US market, knowing the "generation" of the technology has become vastly more important to consumers than the quality or speed or even cost of the resulting service!

    Speed and latency matter to me. I simply got the name of what I have incorrect, due to marketing and me never caring enough to look into it.



  • @scottalanmiller said in I am going to start an ISP:

    @Obsolesce said in I am going to start an ISP:

    @scottalanmiller said in I am going to start an ISP:

    @Obsolesce said in I am going to start an ISP:

    @scottalanmiller said in I am going to start an ISP:

    In rural eastern Europe, 300Mb/s 4G is a reality and has been for years. Plenty speed to handle almost anything

    I'm lucky to get 30 Mbps 4G LTE here....

    LTE is 3G. Most American 4G is actually slower than 3G (which is why all the big carriers here use 3G LTE instead of actual 4G). The "G" is the signally standard, not a reference to the speed. Each new generation can go faster than the old ones, but you can use it to go slower, if you want.

    Real 4G will go much faster than 3G LTE. Real 5G will blow the doors off of that. If you give it the bandwidth.

    Think of it like copper and fiber. Fiber can go faster, but in the real world, it's all down to the speed that you select and lots of copper goes faster than fiber in real deployments. Both go really fast and really slow, if you want them to. But if you need the ultimate speed, fiber can go insanely fast.

    Current connection says LTE+. What's that?

    I always thought that T-Mobile was giving me 4G/LTE. Didn't know it was 3G.

    LTE is a specific 3G technology. 3G is a generation, LTE is a specific 3G implementation. It's the fastest tech currently deployed in the US until 5G rolls out.

    LTE Advanced (written LTE+) is a better form of LTE, but is still 3G.

    One of the key errors in American marketing is being concerned about how a product reaches its speeds, rather than the speeds and quality of the resulting service. No one should care that LTE is 3G or 4G, that's crazy to care. If you are a wireless scientist and interested in signally, sure, it is a point of interest. But as a consumer, there is literally no value in knowing the "generation of signalling" used. But for some reason in the US market, knowing the "generation" of the technology has become vastly more important to consumers than the quality or speed or even cost of the resulting service!

    Kind of sounds like how Apple named there iPhones, 3/3gs and 4/4s.



  • @black3dynamite said in I am going to start an ISP:

    @scottalanmiller said in I am going to start an ISP:

    @Obsolesce said in I am going to start an ISP:

    @scottalanmiller said in I am going to start an ISP:

    @Obsolesce said in I am going to start an ISP:

    @scottalanmiller said in I am going to start an ISP:

    In rural eastern Europe, 300Mb/s 4G is a reality and has been for years. Plenty speed to handle almost anything

    I'm lucky to get 30 Mbps 4G LTE here....

    LTE is 3G. Most American 4G is actually slower than 3G (which is why all the big carriers here use 3G LTE instead of actual 4G). The "G" is the signally standard, not a reference to the speed. Each new generation can go faster than the old ones, but you can use it to go slower, if you want.

    Real 4G will go much faster than 3G LTE. Real 5G will blow the doors off of that. If you give it the bandwidth.

    Think of it like copper and fiber. Fiber can go faster, but in the real world, it's all down to the speed that you select and lots of copper goes faster than fiber in real deployments. Both go really fast and really slow, if you want them to. But if you need the ultimate speed, fiber can go insanely fast.

    Current connection says LTE+. What's that?

    I always thought that T-Mobile was giving me 4G/LTE. Didn't know it was 3G.

    LTE is a specific 3G technology. 3G is a generation, LTE is a specific 3G implementation. It's the fastest tech currently deployed in the US until 5G rolls out.

    LTE Advanced (written LTE+) is a better form of LTE, but is still 3G.

    One of the key errors in American marketing is being concerned about how a product reaches its speeds, rather than the speeds and quality of the resulting service. No one should care that LTE is 3G or 4G, that's crazy to care. If you are a wireless scientist and interested in signally, sure, it is a point of interest. But as a consumer, there is literally no value in knowing the "generation of signalling" used. But for some reason in the US market, knowing the "generation" of the technology has become vastly more important to consumers than the quality or speed or even cost of the resulting service!

    Kind of sounds like how Apple named there iPhones, 3/3gs and 4/4s.

    Kinda, except at least 3G and 4G refer to specific signalling generations. The Apple iPhone names are nothing but names, nothing at all. Any association with meaning is totally made up by their customers.



  • @scottalanmiller said in I am going to start an ISP:

    @black3dynamite said in I am going to start an ISP:

    @scottalanmiller said in I am going to start an ISP:

    @Obsolesce said in I am going to start an ISP:

    @scottalanmiller said in I am going to start an ISP:

    @Obsolesce said in I am going to start an ISP:

    @scottalanmiller said in I am going to start an ISP:

    In rural eastern Europe, 300Mb/s 4G is a reality and has been for years. Plenty speed to handle almost anything

    I'm lucky to get 30 Mbps 4G LTE here....

    LTE is 3G. Most American 4G is actually slower than 3G (which is why all the big carriers here use 3G LTE instead of actual 4G). The "G" is the signally standard, not a reference to the speed. Each new generation can go faster than the old ones, but you can use it to go slower, if you want.

    Real 4G will go much faster than 3G LTE. Real 5G will blow the doors off of that. If you give it the bandwidth.

    Think of it like copper and fiber. Fiber can go faster, but in the real world, it's all down to the speed that you select and lots of copper goes faster than fiber in real deployments. Both go really fast and really slow, if you want them to. But if you need the ultimate speed, fiber can go insanely fast.

    Current connection says LTE+. What's that?

    I always thought that T-Mobile was giving me 4G/LTE. Didn't know it was 3G.

    LTE is a specific 3G technology. 3G is a generation, LTE is a specific 3G implementation. It's the fastest tech currently deployed in the US until 5G rolls out.

    LTE Advanced (written LTE+) is a better form of LTE, but is still 3G.

    One of the key errors in American marketing is being concerned about how a product reaches its speeds, rather than the speeds and quality of the resulting service. No one should care that LTE is 3G or 4G, that's crazy to care. If you are a wireless scientist and interested in signally, sure, it is a point of interest. But as a consumer, there is literally no value in knowing the "generation of signalling" used. But for some reason in the US market, knowing the "generation" of the technology has become vastly more important to consumers than the quality or speed or even cost of the resulting service!

    Kind of sounds like how Apple named there iPhones, 3/3gs and 4/4s.

    Kinda, except at least 3G and 4G refer to specific signalling generations. The Apple iPhone names are nothing but names, nothing at all. Any association with meaning is totally made up by their customers.

    Sort of. The original iPhone did not use the 3G data network. That is why they used iPhone 3g for the name instead of iPhone 2. After that, yeah, it never mattered.


  • Vendor

    @scottalanmiller said in I am going to start an ISP:

    In rural eastern Europe, 300Mb/s 4G is a reality and has been for years. Plenty speed to handle almost anything.

    And yet here I am in Porto with 1.78mbps down on 3G 😞
    Not exactly rural EU and still crap wireless.



  • @StorageNinja said in I am going to start an ISP:

    @scottalanmiller said in I am going to start an ISP:

    In rural eastern Europe, 300Mb/s 4G is a reality and has been for years. Plenty speed to handle almost anything.

    And yet here I am in Porto with 1.78mbps down on 3G 😞
    Not exactly rural EU and still crap wireless.

    Yeah, Porto is western Europe, though. More like the US (e.g. slow.)


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