What Are You Doing Right Now
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@siringo said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@JaredBusch said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@siringo said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
so a program a client uses is moving to the cloud. I had a read of the information available and see that the client software will need to remain on client PCs.
Is that common amongst cloud based programs????
No. But is is common among piss poor shops that think cloud is magic.
I expect this software to die horribly.
Thanks for the replies. Would I be correct if I said that that program is not truely a cloud based program due to it relying on that client software needing to be installed?
"Cloud based" really means so little here. Are you using cloud to mean "hosted"? Are you defining the entire program as both parts, or only the server portion?
Cloud based is kind of a gibberish phrase, it truly doesn't mean anything. Even web based programs just use the browser as the client and load the code dynamically. The fact that it is more easily automated and that the client is included as a de facto standard doesn't change what it is, an app platform.
So by normal logic, we consider something to be hosted (remove "cloud based" from your vocabulary, it will never do you any good as it means literally nothing when said that way) when the server portion of the application is hosted, we never care about the client side as logically, something always has to be local for us to see it.
This is just an antiquated ridiculous 1990s and old "client/server" app that is hosted. That's all. There's nothing cloud about what you are discussing at all, but the server side is hosted.
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@siringo said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
due to it relying on that client software needing to be installed?
When something is web based, in most cases (including MangoLassi) what it does is download the entire client side program at the time that you go to access it. So when you read this webpage, the browser has requested the latest copy of the client (which is then cached so run locally until the cache expires) which then communicates over a networking layer (websockets, in this case) to the server. It's still client/server in that regard but it is written in a language that makes it super easy to make the deployment of the client to the end users automatic and nearly transparent.
It's confusing because we've always had the web browser abstract this process from us so we rarely think about what it is doing. But if you describe the process, it's clear that it is running a full client side application on the local machine. It just deletes it when you are done so that you don't have to maintain it.
If web browsers weren't so common, it would also be more clear that it only works and feels transparent because web browsers are everywhere. If you were missing the web browser or they weren't standardized it would also be readily apparent that a client side set of components are necessary.
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Thanks Scott, two great replies IMHO. I agree & understand.
I'm a very lazy talker and typer & certainly don't articulate my conversations very well. What you included above is how I understand things.
I have a client that loves buzz words, they will go with buzz words over logic & clear explanations.
Yes, 'hosted' is a much more accurate term.
Thank you.
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@siringo said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
I have a client that loves buzz words, they will go with buzz words over logic & clear explanations.
That makes it tough. To someone just looking for buzz words, it could mean either.
By the standard of "cloud means hosted", then it is hosted in the way people mean.
By the standard of "cloud means web", then it is not web.
Neither actually is what cloud means, but those are the two generally used definitions for cloud apps today, neither is related to cloud, but one is hosted, one is web. Some people mean both, some neither, but most is just one or the other.
I have a company that makes non-hosted web based apps and we have lots of clients that say that they are cloud because to them, anything that they see in a browser is a cloud, even if it is running locally on the same box.
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That, of course, begs the question of "if things in the browser are an app, can apps be hosted"? The answer is, yes of course.
Two ways that we can show this happening.
First is an app that doesn't need to display something to you. An SMTP server for example, that can be hosted, and have no local component. When we talk about an email server we don't consider the email client to be part of the package, it's a separate application that is purely option. I run a lot of email systems that never talk to a client like that at all. When they do, it's not considered one app.
This of course shows that the previous example of the old fashioned client/server app that needs the client installed has a hosted app (the server) and a non-hosted app (the client).
Second is HTML based browser displays. Showing an HTML page is not the same as loading an application of JavaScript into the browser. Some websites, like a simple brochure page, often have no javascript and are just display data, not app data. The entire application sits in a hosted location. So again, a purely hosted app.
Of course, you can argue that the browser is necessary as the client and therefore is not fully hosted. True, but the browser is acting like a display agent the same as if we were talking RDP, VNC, or X and we don't consider the OS itself to be a local agent, so the browser as a virtual OS is not one, either, until we run an app on top of it.
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In some cases, a crazy amount of careful semantics help us to decipher the truth of how things work and find better ways to do things. In this case, it's the opposite. By understanding enough of what the ways to look at this and name it exists, what we discover is that the entire concept of wondering if something is a "cloud app" is foolish as no matter what definition we try to use, the answer will never be useful.
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thanks again, it's very helpful to me to be able to ask things like this, as I work alone all the time. Discussing things always helps to expand my knowledge & understanding.
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@scottalanmiller except if you actually read what he posted it is clear that it is a client-server application and the sever is simply no longer going to be on premises.
This is a flaming pile of crap from a horrible software company.
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@JaredBusch said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller except if you actually read what he posted it is clear that it is a client-server application and the sever is simply no longer going to be on premises.
This is a flaming pile of crap from a horrible software company.
It's horrible. But it is also hosted. So while it's terrible, cloud and hosted don't imply good. It's as hosted as any other hosted app is.
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@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@JaredBusch said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller except if you actually read what he posted it is clear that it is a client-server application and the sever is simply no longer going to be on premises.
This is a flaming pile of crap from a horrible software company.
It's horrible. But it is also hosted. So while it's terrible, cloud and hosted don't imply good. It's as hosted as any other hosted app is.
Having written a .Net client/server application or two myself 10+ years ago, I feel extremely confident in calling this crap.
While the server side may be hosted, the client is not. It is still locally installed.
This will run like a flaming pile of shit.
Sure, it is possible that the "client" application was completely rewritten and is little more than a front for a web interface. But it is only barely possible.
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@JaredBusch said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@JaredBusch said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller except if you actually read what he posted it is clear that it is a client-server application and the sever is simply no longer going to be on premises.
This is a flaming pile of crap from a horrible software company.
It's horrible. But it is also hosted. So while it's terrible, cloud and hosted don't imply good. It's as hosted as any other hosted app is.
Having written a .Net client/server application or two myself 10+ years ago, I feel extremely confident in calling this crap.
While the server side may be hosted, the client is not. It is still locally installed.
> This will run like a flaming pile of shit.
Don't hold back, what do you really think :face_with_stuck-out_tongue_closed_eyes:
I appreciate the input, you guys have more knowledge in this area than I. With what you've said Jared, that's just backing up what I've been thinking & what my advice to them will be and that is to not touch it for at least 12 months.
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@siringo said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
Don't hold back, what do you really think
You've been here long enough. You should know these guys may know the definition of holding back, they do not do it that I've seen, lol.
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@siringo said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@JaredBusch said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@JaredBusch said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller except if you actually read what he posted it is clear that it is a client-server application and the sever is simply no longer going to be on premises.
This is a flaming pile of crap from a horrible software company.
It's horrible. But it is also hosted. So while it's terrible, cloud and hosted don't imply good. It's as hosted as any other hosted app is.
Having written a .Net client/server application or two myself 10+ years ago, I feel extremely confident in calling this crap.
While the server side may be hosted, the client is not. It is still locally installed.
> This will run like a flaming pile of shit.
Don't hold back, what do you really think :face_with_stuck-out_tongue_closed_eyes:
I appreciate the input, you guys have more knowledge in this area than I. With what you've said Jared, that's just backing up what I've been thinking & what my advice to them will be and that is to not touch it for at least 12 months.
Why though? Jared could be wrong and it could be a decent client side app. We have no idea what the app in questions is (or I've forgotten it).
If it's like email - it could download all of needed data to a local cache and only talk to the server when updates need to be pulled/pushed, could be a great app, or it could be polling the DB constantly and you could have bandwidth issues.Until we know the nature of the system, and until you test the proposed new system in a production environment, We can't know if it will be usable or not?
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@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
Jared could be wrong and it could be a decent client side app.
I even said that!
But I still doubt it.
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@siringo said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
so a program a client uses is moving to the cloud. I had a read of the information available and see that the client software will need to remain on client PCs.
Is that common amongst cloud based programs????
@Dashrender the original post. Everything about that screams legacy client/server.
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Was just grabbing coffee #2 and looking over the newspaper - Front Page had an article about one of my Customers and how he has "kept his eye on the prize, and opened his 2nd location during the Pandemic."
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@WrCombs What's a news paper?
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@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@WrCombs What's a news paper?
I added a space that shouldn't have been there - fixed it.
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@WrCombs said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@WrCombs What's a news paper?
I added a space that shouldn't have been there - fixed it.
I wasn't giving you crap for news paper or newspaper. I was asking as a millennial would.
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@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@WrCombs said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@WrCombs What's a news paper?
I added a space that shouldn't have been there - fixed it.
I wasn't giving you crap for news paper or newspaper. I was asking as a millennial would.
oh!
lol regardless, fixed the typo.I dont know how to think like a millennial.. I'm old enough to know and read the daily news. lol
