Medical Insurance in the US
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@Dashrender said:
$40K - holy hell - Texas must just be screwing it's people over like crazy.. I've never hear of a family plan costing $40K/yr to cover a family of 4. Did you have every pre-existing condition in the book? and they are hedging their bets on that?
Last time I looked on the marketplace for myself, no subsidies, was ~$400 per month just for me for a decent plan without a five digit deductible. Of course, I don't have to buy, I just use Indian Health Services. The tribal doc will patch me up for nuthin'.
My mother, with current cancer and a history of heart attacks and strokes, is paying $1.5K for hers.
So yeah, $40K, something is seriously wrong and some info is being trotted out that is way out of line. Even in North Carolina, where only BCBS is selling plans, isn't that much.
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I have been buying my own healthcare since 2009 and it has only gone up since the ACA came in.
My coverage is worse and my premiums are higher. I am not confident enough in the system to go pay cash even though I know people like @Minion-Queen do so.
I ended up taking a fairly shitty plan this year compared to what I had in 2009 to get a premium of only $730 a month. That 2009 plan was $650. My premium went down in 2011 and 2012 because I no longer had an infant in the house.
Then the ACA screwed me without lube.
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we have a split family insurance situation
it was cheaper for me to go on my own and my wife and son are covered by her company. That being said, we had our son 2 months early, bills were just under 500K.... we paid 10K on top of our monthly. I say that to say, insurance has its place. Now insurance is paying for all of his therapies, and pretty regular appointments with specialists. -
@KyleCaminita said:
I say that to say, insurance has its place.
I completely agree with this statement. It is just that the US system is so corrupt and broken. The ACA is broke because it was not allowed (by design) to do anything about the corruption.
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So glad to live in Canada where we don't have to deal with the complexities of the healthcare system. Almost everything is taken care of.
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@JaredBusch said:
@KyleCaminita said:
I say that to say, insurance has its place.
I completely agree with this statement. It is just that the US system is so corrupt and broken. The ACA is broke because it was not allowed (by design) to do anything about the corruption.
I agree. Although I much prefer insurance via taxes than via third parties. It's in everyone's interest to ensure that everyone is healthy and to keep the total cost of the whole system down. Insurance is a good idea conceptually, it just has to be handled well for it to work.
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@antonit said:
So glad to live in Canada where we don't have to deal with the complexities of the healthcare system. Almost everything is taken care of.
It's really hard to overestimate the value of this. It's far more than cost or quality of care, it is also things like the stress and fear of never knowing if things will be covered, if you will have to fight for coverage, if you will get billed falsely (this isn't rare, it's the norm), if you are getting your coverage handled properly, if you have the right coverage, if your coverage is legal (we've tried to get insurance just to find out the provider wasn't a "real" one and didn't count), etc. It's very stressful to worry about and it takes a lot of time. It requires every company to have staff (or outsource staff) to deal with this stuff. Every new hire has to spend a lot of time going over details. It makes normal life tasks like switching jobs unnecessarily complex and stressful and leaves tons of room for error.
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@scottalanmiller When I had cancer I spent hours upon hours fighting with the insurance agency to get my treatment. Then when they finally approved treatment it wasn't the one my Oncologist recommended. It took me weeks to get them to kinda cover what I had to have done. Then when the bills started coming in I then had to spend more hours and days on the phone fighting with the hospital for correct billing. Then with the insurance company to pay their portion of said bill. Then with the hospital again to get the bill correct for the insurance agency. Then get to a Chemo appointment and find out I can't get my treatment because bills haven't been paid. The only thing that saved me in the end is a bad surgeon who missed some of what he was supposed to remove and had a hefty malpractice suit (which of course ended up only being enough to pay my hospital bills).
Now I don't have insurance and so far every dr I have had to see is more than willing to negotiate for cash payment on the spot. Which takes me like 10 minutes to do not hours and days.
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@scottalanmiller Definitely cheaper outside the US. In the US health insurance for me alone was about $350 a month or something along those lines. In Russia full coverage private insurance costs me about $850 USD per family member for the entire year. And no, I'm not waiting in lines or sitting in front of death panels, or anything like that. Americans get screwed over because there's a sizable amount of the population who believes things like "it's expensive because it's so good" (it's not), "there's no such thing as a free lunch" (even if true, that doesn't mean stale bread lunch costs the same as a 5 star restaurant), "anything else is socialism/communism/fascism/cherubism/etc" (lol), etc.
The biggest joke is that Medicare can't even negotiate prices, that right there tells you from top to bottom the whole thing is broken, I don't see a need for discussion otherwise. I feel extremely badly for people who can't afford it. What's even crazier is that often I've tried to tell Europeans I know about how the American healthcare system works, and it usually comes down to:
Them "Well, what if you get cancer and can't afford treatment?"
Me "You die"
Them "I can't believe that."
Me "I hope you never have to find out." -
@tonyshowoff said:
The biggest joke is that Medicare can't even negotiate prices, that right there tells you from top to bottom the whole thing is broken, I don't see a need for discussion otherwise. I feel extremely badly for people who can't afford it. What's even crazier is that often I've tried to tell Europeans I know about how the American healthcare system works, and it usually comes down to:
Well, on the whole Medicare not negotiating prices thing. They don't negotiate anything, ever, they just tell you how much you get for a given procedure. Often times it's not even enough to cover the cost of the supplies used to do any given procedure properly. Now guess how many of the 4 doctors I personally know quit serving Medicare patients.
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One day I'll have coverage, then maybe I can get this bone realigned in my hand, so it doesn't noticeably stick out.
I don't make enough money to get fined at the end of the year, but I would still prefer to be covered.
The ACA has done a lot of good. My girlfriend's mother wouldn't be alive right now it it wasn't for the ACA. It removed lifetime limits and the preexisting condition clause. My girlfriend's mother reached her lifetime limit on her insurance plan and was no longer covered. She has multiple sclerosis, and had to go a few years without proper treatments. Unfortunately she became confined to a wheelchair before she was able to get covered again. This whole situation is absurd. The current healthcare system is a failure.
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@antonit said:
So glad to live in Canada where we don't have to deal with the complexities of the healthcare system. Almost everything is taken care of.
I can say the same in Spain.
It's difficult to me understand why some people in US don't want a public medical service, really difficult.
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@iroal said:
It's difficult to me understand why some people in US don't want a public medical service, really difficult.
I have heard many stories of people having to wait a long time for procedures in other countries.
If you are lucky to have good insurance in the US, there is no waiting.
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@iroal said:
@antonit said:
It's difficult to me understand why some people in US don't want a public medical service, really difficult.Because they're ignorant of the rest of the world for the most part, and the media is paid a lot of money to act as though there's huge problems in Canada and Europe with national healthcare insurance or similar programs. So the debate really is a debate with both sides of the issue really being set by people who benefit from extremely high health insurance costs on top of health care costs in general.
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@BRRABill said:
@iroal said:
If you are lucky to have good insurance in the US, there is no waiting.I've known plenty of people who had to wait, even when they had the money, to have procedures done. The problem is does wait time really reflect massive costs? Even in the case of things like colonoscopies, wait a month or more, still costs $15k+ for it.
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@BRRABill said:
@iroal said:
It's difficult to me understand why some people in US don't want a public medical service, really difficult.
I have heard many stories of people having to wait a long time for procedures in other countries.
If you are lucky to have good insurance in the US, there is no waiting.
Perhaps in minor Surgery, if you have a real problem, like cancer, there will be no waiting, and of course It's Free
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@iroal said:
Perhaps in minor Surgery, if you have a real problem, like cancer, there will no waiting, and of course It's Free
I do not know one way or the other.
The only real person I ever heard speak about it was a co-worker who moved from the US to England. They hated the system over there for elective type stuff.
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@iroal said:
@BRRABill said:
@iroal said:
It's difficult to me understand why some people in US don't want a public medical service, really difficult.
I have heard many stories of people having to wait a long time for procedures in other countries.
If you are lucky to have good insurance in the US, there is no waiting.
Perhaps in minor Surgery, if you have a real problem, like cancer, there will be no waiting, and of course It's Free
And that's what I mean when I said above that the dialogue really is trying to make people think that even if you were in a car accident, you'll be waiting forever. The irony is emergency rooms in the US take hours upon hours upon hours.
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@BRRABill said:
@iroal said:
Perhaps in minor Surgery, if you have a real problem, like cancer, there will no waiting, and of course It's Free
I do not know one way or the other.
The only real person I ever heard speak about it was a co-worker who moved from the US to England. They hated the system over there for elective type stuff.
Each country's system has some sort of weird issue or wait that could probably be fixed, but I don't see this worth the whole fact healthcare costs more than anything else in your life, and if you get cancer, you're out God only knows, ... sometimes $1 million+ for some people. That's how the issue is controlled, though, saying "you don't want to have to wait 3 months to fix that clicking when you eat do you? well, cancer treatment is going to have to bankrupt your entire family."
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@scottalanmiller I don't often look but this is what I based it off of and another via Aviva.
