Medical Insurance in the US
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@Breffni-Potter said:
@scottalanmiller said:
That's handy as IF the UK leaves the EU
Fixed that for you.
They are so set on leaving, I feel like the mental weight is better to just write them off and treat them as having left. The trust necessary for the system to work is gone. I don't think of them as partners with the continent any more. Time for an "ever lesser union" with the UK. I truly think that the EU should drop the UK rather than letting them decide to leave and invite Turkey into the vacuum. Better to have those excited and part of the mission. The UK is too much of a fifth column in the system.
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@scottalanmiller said:
They are so set on leaving, I feel like the mental weight is better to just write them off and treat them as having left.
Behind closed doors, I really don't think they are set on leaving, they are just making a song and dance about it.
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@Breffni-Potter said:
@scottalanmiller said:
They are so set on leaving, I feel like the mental weight is better to just write them off and treat them as having left.
Behind closed doors, I really don't think they are set on leaving, they are just making a song and dance about it.
The problem with that is, it makes everyone less interested in keeping them around. I think of the UK as Europe's Texas now. They want to leave, everyone wishes they'd leave, the question is if they are brave enough to do it. Texas has tried that before and it went very, very poorly. They do a song and a dance and it just makes them a big joke. UK has become that to the EU now.
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Don't get me wrong, I live in Texas when in the US and it has its points. But it has no business being part of the US and the US needs to cut it loose. It doesn't need it as a barrier against Mexico anymore and that's all it ever was, the ground the US could burn if necessary to keep the Mexican army at bay. With Mexico a friendly nation, Texas is just a drain on the US. If Texans wanted to stay and were committed to being in America it would be one thing, but they are not. They are a drain on the country, emotionally more than anything. It would be best if they just were left to go on their merry way.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Breffni-Potter said:
@scottalanmiller said:
They are so set on leaving, I feel like the mental weight is better to just write them off and treat them as having left.
Behind closed doors, I really don't think they are set on leaving, they are just making a song and dance about it.
The problem with that is, it makes everyone less interested in keeping them around.
I mean behind closed doors with other EU leaders. Think about the off the record conversation
"The peasants are revolting, they are bleating about Europe, we'll throw a silly vote to appease them for awhile, France could you like...threaten to flood us with Refugees if we do it?"
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@scottalanmiller said:
They are a drain on the country, emotionally more than anything. It would be best if they just were left to go on their merry way.
But where would we go to shoot big guns? That's the perception of Texas, good for a shooting holiday.
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@scottalanmiller said:
There is a reason why travellers plans come in two types: global traveller and global traveller with US. US coverage is the singular country not normally covered by all the international insurance companies.
Although there is a distinction for Worldwide Travel including/excluding the US, Canada or Caribbean Islands the difference in cost for a family of 5 is negligible. £5-30 difference depending on plan options.
I do very much enjoy not having to pay for healthcare and it be included as part of taxes. Private healthcare if I wanted to add it is around £150 extra a month for a family of 5 but we've never really seen the benefit of it when you look at what it includes.
I have worldwide travel coverage that includes the US for about £16/mo along with a bunch of other benefits though a Royalties Gold account at my bank. I think it's also a perk of my current employment package as well so might be double covered. -
@Breffni-Potter said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Breffni-Potter said:
@scottalanmiller said:
They are so set on leaving, I feel like the mental weight is better to just write them off and treat them as having left.
Behind closed doors, I really don't think they are set on leaving, they are just making a song and dance about it.
The problem with that is, it makes everyone less interested in keeping them around.
I mean behind closed doors with other EU leaders. Think about the off the record conversation
"The peasants are revolting, they are bleating about Europe, we'll throw a silly vote to appease them for awhile, France could you like...threaten to flood us with Refugees if we do it?"
Ah, I see.
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@larsen161 said:
I have worldwide travel coverage that includes the US for about £16/mo along with a bunch of other benefits though a Royalties Gold account at my bank. I think it's also a perk of my current employment package as well so might be double covered.
When we have looked and Canada and the Caribbean are lumped with the world and the cost of the US more than doubles coverages plans. We've not seen any where Canada isn't just part of the "rest of the world."
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@Dashrender said:
$40K - holy hell - Texas must just be screwing it's people over like crazy.. I've never hear of a family plan costing $40K/yr to cover a family of 4. Did you have every pre-existing condition in the book? and they are hedging their bets on that?
Last time I looked on the marketplace for myself, no subsidies, was ~$400 per month just for me for a decent plan without a five digit deductible. Of course, I don't have to buy, I just use Indian Health Services. The tribal doc will patch me up for nuthin'.
My mother, with current cancer and a history of heart attacks and strokes, is paying $1.5K for hers.
So yeah, $40K, something is seriously wrong and some info is being trotted out that is way out of line. Even in North Carolina, where only BCBS is selling plans, isn't that much.
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I have been buying my own healthcare since 2009 and it has only gone up since the ACA came in.
My coverage is worse and my premiums are higher. I am not confident enough in the system to go pay cash even though I know people like @Minion-Queen do so.
I ended up taking a fairly shitty plan this year compared to what I had in 2009 to get a premium of only $730 a month. That 2009 plan was $650. My premium went down in 2011 and 2012 because I no longer had an infant in the house.
Then the ACA screwed me without lube.
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we have a split family insurance situation
it was cheaper for me to go on my own and my wife and son are covered by her company. That being said, we had our son 2 months early, bills were just under 500K.... we paid 10K on top of our monthly. I say that to say, insurance has its place. Now insurance is paying for all of his therapies, and pretty regular appointments with specialists. -
@KyleCaminita said:
I say that to say, insurance has its place.
I completely agree with this statement. It is just that the US system is so corrupt and broken. The ACA is broke because it was not allowed (by design) to do anything about the corruption.
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So glad to live in Canada where we don't have to deal with the complexities of the healthcare system. Almost everything is taken care of.
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@JaredBusch said:
@KyleCaminita said:
I say that to say, insurance has its place.
I completely agree with this statement. It is just that the US system is so corrupt and broken. The ACA is broke because it was not allowed (by design) to do anything about the corruption.
I agree. Although I much prefer insurance via taxes than via third parties. It's in everyone's interest to ensure that everyone is healthy and to keep the total cost of the whole system down. Insurance is a good idea conceptually, it just has to be handled well for it to work.
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@antonit said:
So glad to live in Canada where we don't have to deal with the complexities of the healthcare system. Almost everything is taken care of.
It's really hard to overestimate the value of this. It's far more than cost or quality of care, it is also things like the stress and fear of never knowing if things will be covered, if you will have to fight for coverage, if you will get billed falsely (this isn't rare, it's the norm), if you are getting your coverage handled properly, if you have the right coverage, if your coverage is legal (we've tried to get insurance just to find out the provider wasn't a "real" one and didn't count), etc. It's very stressful to worry about and it takes a lot of time. It requires every company to have staff (or outsource staff) to deal with this stuff. Every new hire has to spend a lot of time going over details. It makes normal life tasks like switching jobs unnecessarily complex and stressful and leaves tons of room for error.
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@scottalanmiller When I had cancer I spent hours upon hours fighting with the insurance agency to get my treatment. Then when they finally approved treatment it wasn't the one my Oncologist recommended. It took me weeks to get them to kinda cover what I had to have done. Then when the bills started coming in I then had to spend more hours and days on the phone fighting with the hospital for correct billing. Then with the insurance company to pay their portion of said bill. Then with the hospital again to get the bill correct for the insurance agency. Then get to a Chemo appointment and find out I can't get my treatment because bills haven't been paid. The only thing that saved me in the end is a bad surgeon who missed some of what he was supposed to remove and had a hefty malpractice suit (which of course ended up only being enough to pay my hospital bills).
Now I don't have insurance and so far every dr I have had to see is more than willing to negotiate for cash payment on the spot. Which takes me like 10 minutes to do not hours and days.
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@scottalanmiller Definitely cheaper outside the US. In the US health insurance for me alone was about $350 a month or something along those lines. In Russia full coverage private insurance costs me about $850 USD per family member for the entire year. And no, I'm not waiting in lines or sitting in front of death panels, or anything like that. Americans get screwed over because there's a sizable amount of the population who believes things like "it's expensive because it's so good" (it's not), "there's no such thing as a free lunch" (even if true, that doesn't mean stale bread lunch costs the same as a 5 star restaurant), "anything else is socialism/communism/fascism/cherubism/etc" (lol), etc.
The biggest joke is that Medicare can't even negotiate prices, that right there tells you from top to bottom the whole thing is broken, I don't see a need for discussion otherwise. I feel extremely badly for people who can't afford it. What's even crazier is that often I've tried to tell Europeans I know about how the American healthcare system works, and it usually comes down to:
Them "Well, what if you get cancer and can't afford treatment?"
Me "You die"
Them "I can't believe that."
Me "I hope you never have to find out." -
@tonyshowoff said:
The biggest joke is that Medicare can't even negotiate prices, that right there tells you from top to bottom the whole thing is broken, I don't see a need for discussion otherwise. I feel extremely badly for people who can't afford it. What's even crazier is that often I've tried to tell Europeans I know about how the American healthcare system works, and it usually comes down to:
Well, on the whole Medicare not negotiating prices thing. They don't negotiate anything, ever, they just tell you how much you get for a given procedure. Often times it's not even enough to cover the cost of the supplies used to do any given procedure properly. Now guess how many of the 4 doctors I personally know quit serving Medicare patients.
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One day I'll have coverage, then maybe I can get this bone realigned in my hand, so it doesn't noticeably stick out.
I don't make enough money to get fined at the end of the year, but I would still prefer to be covered.
The ACA has done a lot of good. My girlfriend's mother wouldn't be alive right now it it wasn't for the ACA. It removed lifetime limits and the preexisting condition clause. My girlfriend's mother reached her lifetime limit on her insurance plan and was no longer covered. She has multiple sclerosis, and had to go a few years without proper treatments. Unfortunately she became confined to a wheelchair before she was able to get covered again. This whole situation is absurd. The current healthcare system is a failure.
