Apple bricks phone if not serviced by Apple



  • http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-35502030

    yeah my title is click bait.

    OK If the phone detects non authorized by Apple repair work it will error 53 the phone.

    What I can't tell from the article - does replacement glass count in this or not? The article specifically mentions the screen. If we assume the LED, then I can understand the desire to prevent further use because a shim could be placed between the screen and the rest and do bad things.

    But just the glass? Assuming the touch sensor isn't part of the glass, shouldn't matter.



  • @Dashrender said:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-35502030

    yeah my title is click bait.

    OK If the phone detects non authorized by Apple repair work it will error 53 the phone.

    What I can't tell from the article - does replacement glass count in this or not? The article specifically mentions the screen. If we assume the LED, then I can understand the desire to prevent further use because a shim could be placed between the screen and the rest and do bad things.

    But just the glass? Assuming the touch sensor isn't part of the glass, shouldn't matter.

    I could have sworn there was a recent law put in place that made Apple's behavior here illegal (at least in the US).



  • There are a few factors here to consider.

    At first I was completely against this - Apple can prevent me from servicing my machine by whoever I want? BS!

    But - when the security part was introduced, I took a step back and say - uh hey, wait a min. OK I think I understand what is going on here.

    I suppose, Apple could create the ability for an end user to turn off this ultra high level of security, but if the user can do, so can a bad guy who is installing crap in your phone.

    Considering that Apple is currently standing up for your security and privacy rights - I understand what they are doing here and why.

    Does it make things more expensive - hell yeah - but than as Scott so often says about Windows - you are buying into that ecosystem, so you must fully commit or get out.



  • @Dashrender said:

    There are a few factors here to consider.

    At first I was completely against this - Apple can prevent me from servicing my machine by whoever I want? BS!

    But - when the security part was introduced, I took a step back and say - uh hey, wait a min. OK I think I understand what is going on here.

    I suppose, Apple could create the ability for an end user to turn off this ultra high level of security, but if the user can do, so can a bad guy who is installing crap in your phone.

    Considering that Apple is currently standing up for your security and privacy rights - I understand what they are doing here and why.

    Does it make things more expensive - hell yeah - but than as Scott so often says about Windows - you are buying into that ecosystem, so you must fully commit or get out.

    Wait... why are you having your phone serviced by someone you don't trust? That makes little sense in the long run. I get what you are saying but anytime you let someone have access to the physical device all sense of security goes out the window.



  • @coliver said:

    Wait... why are you having your phone serviced by someone you don't trust? That makes little sense in the long run. I get what you are saying but anytime you let someone have access to the physical device all sense of security goes out the window.

    This is not a problem, not really, for the masses, but for the 0.01% who have such valuable things on their phone to make it a worth while target.

    But just because it's really not a real problem for people like you or I (OK at least not me) doesn't mean that the rest of us can't benefit from good security.

    Clearly people are having work done by non Apple certified places using, most likely, non-Apple supplied parts - otherwise this wouldn't be an issue - and do you want to trust those parts?



  • I believe it's when you replace the touch sensor or the motherboard, as those are synced up at manufacture. If you don't replace them as a pair then the trust relationship between them is broken. If you allow a new touch sensor to be added to an existing phone then you can spoof the fingerprint read. I understand why they are doing this to protect your data from being stolen when someone has physical access to your phone, however I don't think bricking the phone is the correct response. Also the issue comes up when you upgrade the OS - before that the fingerprint sensor just stops working if it has been replaced. A better experience would be a warning before you upgrade, or preventing the upgrade altogether.



  • I agree that the brick after an upgrade is the wrong approach.





  • I really want Apple to get hit with lawsuits and high fines, just to teach them a lesson, but on the other hand, it's the end users that will eventually pay the bill. So no good solution there.



  • @marcinozga said:

    I really want Apple to get hit with lawsuits and high fines, just to teach them a lesson, but on the other hand, it's the end users that will eventually pay the bill. So no good solution there.

    Not really - unless you think Apple will increase the cost of the phones based on the lawsuit - which seems unlikely.



  • @Dashrender said:

    @marcinozga said:

    I really want Apple to get hit with lawsuits and high fines, just to teach them a lesson, but on the other hand, it's the end users that will eventually pay the bill. So no good solution there.

    Not really - unless you think Apple will increase the cost of the phones based on the lawsuit - which seems unlikely.

    It's economics 101, of course they would.



  • 0_1455039336332_4220766.jpg


  • Service Provider

    @coliver said:

    I could have sworn there was a recent law put in place that made Apple's behavior here illegal (at least in the US).

    No recent law needed. Intentionally bricking a phone to stop the user from using it constitutes theft and/or bad faith and would be extremely illegal in the US and, I'm sure, the EU.


  • Service Provider

    @Dashrender said:

    Clearly people are having work done by non Apple certified places using, most likely, non-Apple supplied parts - otherwise this wouldn't be an issue - and do you want to trust those parts?

    Since Apple doesn't have certified places in all countries, what are people supposed to be doing? As someone who has had to use non-Apple service in parts of the world where Apple has no presence in the country or any nearby country to a degree where the locals are not even aware that there is such a thing as an Apple Store and think that the term just is a weird American reference to stores that sell Apple products... this is a major potential problem. And I'm talking people who are big time Apples users and even they are unaware of actual Apple stores existing.


  • Service Provider

    @Dashrender said:

    But just the glass? Assuming the touch sensor isn't part of the glass, shouldn't matter.

    When I was in rural Panama, my glass got broken (first time ever) and the only repair option was a little shop in the middle of nowhere. They replaced the button as part of the glass. Had this happened, Apple would have disabled my phone without even having offered a service option for me.

    This could be what pushed me over the edge to going to Android even though I hate Android phones and love iPhone ones. This is not something a traveller can have. The ability to have anyone, anywhere fix the glass is was a key factor in using iPhones.



  • @scottalanmiller said:

    @Dashrender said:

    But just the glass? Assuming the touch sensor isn't part of the glass, shouldn't matter.

    When I was in rural Panama, my glass got broken (first time ever) and the only repair option was a little shop in the middle of nowhere. They replaced the button as part of the glass. Had this happened, Apple would have disabled my phone without even having offered a service option for me.

    This could be what pushed me over the edge to going to Android even though I hate Android phones and love iPhone ones. This is not something a traveller can have. The ability to have anyone, anywhere fix the glass is was a key factor in using iPhones.

    I get that they are going for security... but why not simply disable the fingerprint reader if they detect the phone has been tampered with?


  • Service Provider

    At the end of the day, this is a money grab. There are many other ways to deal with the security issue around the finger print sensor besides out-right breaking the whole device.



  • @scottalanmiller said:

    @Dashrender said:

    But just the glass? Assuming the touch sensor isn't part of the glass, shouldn't matter.

    When I was in rural Panama, my glass got broken (first time ever) and the only repair option was a little shop in the middle of nowhere. They replaced the button as part of the glass. Had this happened, Apple would have disabled my phone without even having offered a service option for me.

    This could be what pushed me over the edge to going to Android even though I hate Android phones and love iPhone ones. This is not something a traveller can have. The ability to have anyone, anywhere fix the glass is was a key factor in using iPhones.

    Wait, [email protected]!?!? you don't use an Apple phone anymore? Say it isn't so!


  • Service Provider

    @Dashrender said:

    @scottalanmiller said:

    @Dashrender said:

    But just the glass? Assuming the touch sensor isn't part of the glass, shouldn't matter.

    When I was in rural Panama, my glass got broken (first time ever) and the only repair option was a little shop in the middle of nowhere. They replaced the button as part of the glass. Had this happened, Apple would have disabled my phone without even having offered a service option for me.

    This could be what pushed me over the edge to going to Android even though I hate Android phones and love iPhone ones. This is not something a traveller can have. The ability to have anyone, anywhere fix the glass is was a key factor in using iPhones.

    Wait, [email protected]!?!? you don't use an Apple phone anymore? Say it isn't so!

    I do, read what I wrote.



  • @Dashrender said:

    @scottalanmiller said:

    @Dashrender said:

    But just the glass? Assuming the touch sensor isn't part of the glass, shouldn't matter.

    When I was in rural Panama, my glass got broken (first time ever) and the only repair option was a little shop in the middle of nowhere. They replaced the button as part of the glass. Had this happened, Apple would have disabled my phone without even having offered a service option for me.

    This could be what pushed me over the edge to going to Android even though I hate Android phones and love iPhone ones. This is not something a traveller can have. The ability to have anyone, anywhere fix the glass is was a key factor in using iPhones.

    Wait, [email protected]!?!? you don't use an Apple phone anymore? Say it isn't so!

    No this is what would push him away not what did 🙂



  • @SAM said:

    They replaced the button as part of the glass. Had this happened, Apple would have disabled my phone without even having offered a service option for me.

    So they did or did not replace the button?

    You're inclusion of "Had this happened" confuses me - had what happened? the replacement of the button? or the bricking of the phone?

    Assuming you have a new button, have you upgraded the software since this problem came to light? If not, I wonder if you upgrade now if you will in fact be bricked.


  • Service Provider

    iPhone 6 handsets only @Dashrender

    I'm loving my 5s right now.


  • Service Provider

    @Dashrender said:

    @SAM said:

    They replaced the button as part of the glass. Had this happened, Apple would have disabled my phone without even having offered a service option for me.

    So they did or did not replace the button?

    You're inclusion of "Had this happened" confuses me - had what happened? the replacement of the button? or the bricking of the phone?

    Assuming you have a new button, have you upgraded the software since this problem came to light? If not, I wonder if you upgrade now if you will in fact be bricked.

    This all happened to me, but on a 5S, so I was protected.



  • @Breffni-Potter said:

    iPhone 6 handsets only @Dashrender

    I'm loving my 5s right now.

    lol this is Scott we are talking about, I'd expect him to have nothing less than the best 😉



  • @scottalanmiller said:

    @Dashrender said:

    @SAM said:

    They replaced the button as part of the glass. Had this happened, Apple would have disabled my phone without even having offered a service option for me.

    So they did or did not replace the button?

    You're inclusion of "Had this happened" confuses me - had what happened? the replacement of the button? or the bricking of the phone?

    Assuming you have a new button, have you upgraded the software since this problem came to light? If not, I wonder if you upgrade now if you will in fact be bricked.

    This all happened to me, but on a 5S, so I was protected.

    And happened last year, before this was a problem.


  • Service Provider

    @Dashrender said:

    This all happened to me, but on a 5S, so I was protected.

    And happened last year, before this was a problem.

    Does not matter when the hardware change happened, that's why so many phones are suddenly dying now though. The new software itself, bricks the phone no matter when the repair was done.


  • Service Provider

    @Breffni-Potter said:

    @Dashrender said:

    This all happened to me, but on a 5S, so I was protected.

    And happened last year, before this was a problem.

    Does not matter when the hardware change happened, that's why so many phones are suddenly dying now though. The new software itself, bricks the phone no matter when the repair was done.

    Except I then, a week later, dropped it in a lagoon. So... don't have that phone anymore at all.



  • @scottalanmiller said:

    @Breffni-Potter said:

    @Dashrender said:

    This all happened to me, but on a 5S, so I was protected.

    And happened last year, before this was a problem.

    Does not matter when the hardware change happened, that's why so many phones are suddenly dying now though. The new software itself, bricks the phone no matter when the repair was done.

    Except I then, a week later, dropped it in a lagoon. So... don't have that phone anymore at all.

    Does this mean you have a 6s?



  • @Breffni-Potter said:

    At the end of the day, this is a money grab. There are many other ways to deal with the security issue around the finger print sensor besides out-right breaking the whole device.

    This is my thinking too. Apple forces people to pay for a certification, then forces them to only use Apple parts, then locks-in their users to only use that process.



  • @coliver said:

    @Breffni-Potter said:

    At the end of the day, this is a money grab. There are many other ways to deal with the security issue around the finger print sensor besides out-right breaking the whole device.

    This is my thinking too. Apple forces people to pay for a certification, then forces them to only use Apple parts, then locks-in their users to only use that process.

    It's hard not to see this as a money grab considering the could have simply disabled the fingerprint reader instead of bricking the phone.

    I'm all for requiring Apple only parts in a situation like this.

    also, I suppose it's possible that replacing the button also requires replacing the mobo so they are matched.

    But replacing the button as part of broken glass - now that's going to far and will cause huge problems for Apple, just like IE did for MS.


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