Healthcare Sharing Networks - Have You Used One?
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The rise of group health care premiums is really starting to upset me. It's up about $200 per month from last year. My wife and I are taking a hard look at healthcare sharing networks like Samaritan Ministries. This is just one of the many out there, but from what I gather, this covers you from receiving a tax penalty for not having health insurance.
Has anyone considered using something like this and moving away from group insurance? I'd love to hear feedback from any who have done this. I feel like by doing it we would be saving a ton of cash and could put a fair amount away in an emergency fund just for medical expenses.
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I've been on a High deductible HSA (Health Savings Account) plan for several years. I haven't had many health issues either so my HSA has a good amount of money in it, incase I need to spend the money upfront.
I put in something like $30 a week (because I can afford it) pre-tax deductible. I can use it for anything from cough medicine, to doctors visits, to operations.
Just keep the receipts for tax time and you're fine. It's awkward at first, because you literally have $0 in your HSA account unless your employer puts some startup capitol in for you as a sign up bonus. (Because it is saving them money in the long run).
I've never considered a HSN though, maybe if I had kids / wife / family. My girlfriend also has an HSA so it works for us.
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It will definitely be different if we do it since everything is essentially self-pay. They expect you to pay for your own well visits (which I understand), but if you run into some procedure, test, or medical expense, you publish a need and the amount of need. Then other members of the HSN send you funds to pay your medical bills. And your monthly fee to be a part of the HSN is the same, whether you have one kid or 10.
We considered the HSA, but even with that, we're not saving very much off the cost of our monthly group premiums. It would be a a little but, but it would not be as much as the savings from moving to a HSN.
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I looked at the Prices for the Samaritan Ministries. That's not bad at all if your company doesn't provide decent (or affordable) insurance!
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LOL - decent/affordable - LOL it's amazing what these terms can mean.
For example, my office offers a High Deductible plan, for our average employee it costs around $200 a month (the other $600+ a month is covered by the company).
Our high deductible is the is $5250 (noticeably less than the allowed max of $6450. On top of that, my employer is covering anything over $2000 out of pocket. This in effect means that our deductible is only $2000, not $5250. This is huge! And of course, we can put $3350 into a HSA saving another $1000+ in taxes.
OH, and this is all with Blue Cross Blue Shield - one of the best insurance plans (if not good IT) around coverage wise.
What was unbelievable to me is that I've heard people whining about what crappy coverage we have. I inquired to management about these complaints - come to find out that the local hospitals are offering their employees 100% or nearly so coverage. But of course they can, they are self insured.
Back to the topic at hand - This is definitely an interesting idea. Though I don't know if it will continue to be viable as more and more unhealthy people sign up for it. As the ratio of health to unhealthy people changes, there won't be enough money. Also, what happens when you skip a payment?
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@Dashrender said:
Back to the topic at hand - This is definitely an interesting idea. Though I don't know if it will continue to be viable as more and more unhealthy people sign up for it. As the ratio of health to unhealthy people changes, there won't be enough money. Also, what happens when you skip a payment?
From what I understand, if you do not make the payment every month, you are not eligible to receive the benefits of being in the HSN until you become current again. And this is a self-pay kind of thing. You get billed / have to front the cash for office visits, etc. Then when you have a need (i.e. surgery, cancer treatments, etc.), you publish that to the HSN, and other members send you money to pay your medical bills.
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We ended up moving to the HSN I mentioned in this thread. Hopefully all will be well as a result, but time will tell.
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Let me know how it goes. Samaritan looks like the best option out of the ones I saw.
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I'm curious to see how it turns out the first time you have a need - will the checks start pouring in?
Also not thrilled with a set of strangers having my access (so they can send the funds).
Also, how does the central body know who did or didn't send money to those in need?
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Also, how does this work from a tax perspective? Since I'm assuming most of the payments will be below the gift limit (it is $12,000 a year now?) that you don't have to claim it and instead write them all off as gifts?
I could see issues if you ever get audited, ummm.. sir, you deposited $36K in Aug of last year sir.. where did you get that money from? lol
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@Dashrender said:
I'm curious to see how it turns out the first time you have a need - will the checks start pouring in?
Also not thrilled with a set of strangers having my access (so they can send the funds).
Also, how does the central body know who did or didn't send money to those in need?
Those are the kinds of questions I have also. As someone currently paying $930/month ($600 pre ACA) for traditional healthcare services it is a pressing question to me too.
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@JaredBusch said:
@Dashrender said:
I'm curious to see how it turns out the first time you have a need - will the checks start pouring in?
Also not thrilled with a set of strangers having my access (so they can send the funds).
Also, how does the central body know who did or didn't send money to those in need?
Those are the kinds of questions I have also. As someone currently paying $930/month ($600 pre ACA) for traditional healthcare services it is a pressing question to me too.
So much for cheaper - now that insurance MUST cover so many more things than it was required to before, insurance is definitely more expensive.
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@Dashrender said:
So much for cheaper - now that insurance MUST cover so many more things than it was required to before, insurance is definitely more expensive.
The ACA was never designed to be cheaper as it was built on top of our already broken model. The "cheaper" is only for those getting the cost subsidized because of the family income. Granted this is a LOT of households that actually use the ACA Exchanges. But not me. It does not help that I choose what they call Platinum (actually better than those) for my plan. Because, well it did not used to cost this much. I have to give up so much this year because of this.
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Note: Do not get me wrong, I 100% want the ACA to exist. I just wish they could have not built on an already broken model.
The Citizens United ruling had more than a little to do with it IMO.
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@Dashrender said:
So much for cheaper - now that insurance MUST cover so many more things than it was required to before, insurance is definitely more expensive.
Ours went down dramatically. We pay like 25% what we used to pay. It's definitely not more expensive for everyone. They had unlimited power to potentially extort you before. Now that is more limited.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Ours went down dramatically. We pay like 25% what we used to pay. It's definitely not more expensive for everyone. They had unlimited power to potentially extort you before. Now that is more limited.
Not a single person I know that buys insurance personally, pays less than what they paid prior to the ACA.
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@JaredBusch said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Ours went down dramatically. We pay like 25% what we used to pay. It's definitely not more expensive for everyone. They had unlimited power to potentially extort you before. Now that is more limited.
Not a single person I know that buys insurance personally, pays less than what they paid prior to the ACA.
Well the difference there is that we weren't eligible to buy in personally before. We literally were uninsurable if we didn't get it through work. We spent months working with every insurer we could find and even brokers. The brokers told us there was no hope. And we never found anything. So to me, the difference there is "the US now has insurance versus, it didn't have universal insurance before."
Maybe the prices went up for most people because the few of us that were being really extorted got some protection.
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We actually choose to not be insured at all. It is MUCH cheaper for us to not be insured than to be insured. That includes us having to pay the Tax on not being insured. Yes there is a risk that we could having be paying hospital bills for ever in the event of a accident but, generally they will work out a payment plan for you if you are paying cash.
Example why it's cheaper: Insurance for us (we don't qualify for subsidies). $1,400/month with a $3,600 deductible each year. Co Pay for Dr's appt.s $75, My medications each month $50 each (3 of them), Blood work: $150 deductible, xray's MRI's etc. 50% (was about $350 if I remember right that I had to pay last time).
Yearly cost with Insurance: $21,000/year minimum
I have learned that there are all kinds of discounts if you pay cash on the spot.
Paying cash: Dr.'s appts: $100 if paid in cash. Blood work if paid in cash $75. MRI $275 cash, medications $35 total a month for all 3 cash.
Yearly cost no Insurance: tax $3,000 + $3,200= $6,200ish a year.
No contest why we chose to go without insurance.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@JaredBusch said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Ours went down dramatically. We pay like 25% what we used to pay. It's definitely not more expensive for everyone. They had unlimited power to potentially extort you before. Now that is more limited.
Not a single person I know that buys insurance personally, pays less than what they paid prior to the ACA.
Well the difference there is that we weren't eligible to buy in personally before. We literally were uninsurable if we didn't get it through work. We spent months working with every insurer we could find and even brokers. The brokers told us there was no hope. And we never found anything. So to me, the difference there is "the US now has insurance versus, it didn't have universal insurance before."
Maybe the prices went up for most people because the few of us that were being really extorted got some protection.
I'm going to pry and ask what conditions did/do you have that caused the insurance companies to deny you? This is the only reason I can think of currently that would have them telling you no (or a rate that was so high as to make it worthless).
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@JaredBusch said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Ours went down dramatically. We pay like 25% what we used to pay. It's definitely not more expensive for everyone. They had unlimited power to potentially extort you before. Now that is more limited.
Not a single person I know that buys insurance personally, pays less than what they paid prior to the ACA.
Like you, I know no one (save for Scott - though since he didn't actually have insurance I don't think he really counts) who's insurance went down.
