What would you do...
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@JaredBusch said in What would you do...:
@Pete-S said in What would you do...:
A customer ask you for a solution to a problem. You have knowledge about the customers systems because they are a repeat customer. You present a solution and give them a quote.
As you stated this was sales engineering time the you never get paid for directly. I assume that you build recovery of this cost into your quoted rate.
That is correct.
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@Pete-S said in What would you do...:
After some time the customer comes back and ask if you can offer some pointers to get the guys from the other company going forward with the implementation.
This is something I have done from time to time. But it is always at our normal full hourly rate. No discounts. Our standard consulting agreement has a rider attached clearly stating the goals of the consultation time. That everything we are doing is education and hand off. No follow up responsibility on us without further billable hours.
Consulting, is consulting. People like @WLS-ITGuy that just want to cry about shit do not understand business in the first place.
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@WLS-ITGuy said in What would you do...:
@JaredBusch said in What would you do...:
@WLS-ITGuy said in What would you do...:
@JaredBusch said in What would you do...:
@WLS-ITGuy said in What would you do...:
@DustinB3403 said in What would you do...:
@WLS-ITGuy said in What would you do...:
@DustinB3403 said in What would you do...:
@WLS-ITGuy said in What would you do...:
@DustinB3403 said in What would you do...:
What @WLS-ITGuy is saying and @bnrstnr is now suggesting is that the customer has already fired him. When they haven't. They simply picked another vendor who possibly proposed the same solution.
It may be that the customer wants @Pete-S to consult on the project but not have the entire project because his proposal was way more expensive.
A lost bid is not a termination.
No, I am saying I would have fired the customer. I gave my bid/proposal, you went with vendor B, I'm not fixing the shit they can't do, even if I am getting paid. That's the price they pay for going with cut rate vendors.
That's fine, that is an option I listed above. If you wish to fire the end customer, make no bones about it. That is perfectly fine.
But if you want/need the money you have only 1 other option.
I'm not sure I need/want the money that bad to get into that mess. Unless you rewrite a proposal that clearly states that it is not a block amount of time anymore for the job because you don't know what they screwed up and how much you have to undo to get it working the right way from the beginning.
Absolutely, yeah a set block of time would be putting the @Pete-S on retainer. He would need to be an outside consultant paid for every minute worked (likely in 15 minute intervals).
I'd say billed on the 5s
Stop being a jackass just because a client picked someone other than you.
If it were my company I wouldn't take the client after this so I can be however the fuck I want to be.
:crying_face: :crying_face: :crying_face: :crying_face: :crying_face: :crying_face: :crying_face: :crying_face: :crying_face: :crying_face: :crying_face: :crying_face:
This is also the reason I got out of MSP/break fix and work in house now. I don't have to deal with this at all.
FFS. You were already told that you have no clue WTF you are talking about.
Consulting is not MSP.
Additionally, this thread has jack shit to do with break/fix.
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@Pete-S said in What would you do...:
What are the options?
Real simple
- Not take the work
- Take the work
@Pete-S said in What would you do...:
What would YOU do?
Pretty much answered this in the previous reply.
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We are in manufacturing, if we propose a custom machine to somebody and they take our proposal to another OEM then turn around and ask us to consult our competitors, they can get bent. We would easily tell them "sorry they couldn't do it, our original offer still stands"
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@bnrstnr said in What would you do...:
We would easily tell them "sorry they couldn't do it, our original offer still stands"
That is "not take the work" because that is not what was being asked.
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I don't understand how this is difficult to grasp.
The customer is asking if you would consult, nothing more or less.
So two options exist, yes or no.
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@Pete-S said in What would you do...:
@DustinB3403 said in What would you do...:
I'd invoice the customer and/or the other guys for consultation time at whatever a reasonable consultation rate is for your area.
Even if you are basically training your competition?
Yeah, sounds like they need to pay for your time at a premium. They need to see that the cost of you is part of the cost of using someone else.
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@Pete-S Assuming I was brought in to fix things and train, I would make a point to learn approximate costs of the not my solution.
Then later, when some other factor causes a conversation with this client, I would point out the loss of savings due to needing to bring me in after the fact.
Odds are better I will be selected first the next time.
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@Pete-S said in What would you do...:
@DustinB3403 said in What would you do...:
Based on my previous comment on guessing where you messed up. Unless you have something in writing that your designs and proposals are to be held as confidential.
You don't have a leg to stand on, and while I agree that you can be upset if the customer implements exactly what you proposed with someone else doing the work; you really have nothing to argue about. You'd also have a hell of a time proving it in court to try and be restored.
So charge the other guys/customer for consultation fees for this new request and be done with it.
Your guess is correct. Except that the customer only received the overall solution but without specific details.
Overall I consider that time a part of the selling process so that is not something I worry about.In which case, not a huge deal. Ignore that they went with a different quote, that they got quotes at all means that they are either corrupt or idiots. No one trying to help their own business would ever work that way. Either you were never in the running, or they are just totally incompetent. It takes zero common sense to know that getting blind quotes and not caring about the results means that getting things done isn't the goal.
So at this point, be unemotional. You have an hourly rate, use it.
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@JaredBusch said in What would you do...:
@Pete-S Assuming I was brought in to fix things and train, I would make a point to learn approximate costs of the not my solution.
Then later, when some other factor causes a conversation with this client, I would point out the loss of savings due to needing to bring me in after the fact.
Odds are better I will be selected first the next time.
Exactly, if the customers chosen vendor needs you to consult, that's in your benefit.
The customer should see that cost and realize where they messed up.
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@scottalanmiller said in What would you do...:
that they got quotes at all means that they are either corrupt or idiots
WTF...
Split this and make a reply IMO.
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@JaredBusch the point of that was not to discuss how terrible the quote process is, but to show that it wasn't personal, just incompetence, and being unemotional now and approaching it as any consulting is what should be done.
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@Pete-S said in What would you do...:
@DustinB3403 said in What would you do...:
@Pete-S said in What would you do...:
Except that the customer only received the overall solution but without specific details.
So perfect, you made a proposal, the client took that proposal with limited details and got idk 30% off of it with some other people.
Your only options at this point are A) Offer consultation rates B ) Don't deal with the customer.
I'd choose option A with a signed contract from the customer for an hourly rate consultation fee for this project.
There is also option C. Tell the customer that they have our quote and that we would be glad help them with a full solution (but not the consultation).
True, but that's a bit of an "FU" to them. Will they do that? Not likely. Is it smart? Yes, but emotionally someone won't do that and since they did the bid process, you know that getting the job done or saving money aren't reasons that they are doing things. So it's only likely to make things worse. It's technically an option, but it's kind of a walking away option.
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@DustinB3403 said in What would you do...:
@Pete-S said in What would you do...:
There is also option C. Tell the customer that they have our quote and that we would be glad help them with a full solution (but not the consultation).
That actually isn't an option, because the client has already engaged another entity to do the work. Of which it would likely be very costly to the customer to change vendors.
This is essentially telling the customer that you don't want to work with them and that you're firing them.
That's how it would feel to me.
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@bnrstnr said in What would you do...:
It more sounds like, to me anyway, that the potential customer took his proposal to some other guys and they said, "yeah, we can do that for less"
But without details. So only kind of.
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@WLS-ITGuy said in What would you do...:
@DustinB3403 said in What would you do...:
What @WLS-ITGuy is saying and @bnrstnr is now suggesting is that the customer has already fired him. When they haven't. They simply picked another vendor who possibly proposed the same solution.
It may be that the customer wants @Pete-S to consult on the project but not have the entire project because his proposal was way more expensive.
A lost bid is not a termination.
No, I am saying I would have fired the customer. I gave my bid/proposal, you went with vendor B, I'm not fixing the shit they can't do, even if I am getting paid. That's the price they pay for going with cut rate vendors.
That's basically all of IT. If I wasn't willing to fix what other people broke, there would be no business.
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@scottalanmiller said in What would you do...:
@WLS-ITGuy said in What would you do...:
@DustinB3403 said in What would you do...:
What @WLS-ITGuy is saying and @bnrstnr is now suggesting is that the customer has already fired him. When they haven't. They simply picked another vendor who possibly proposed the same solution.
It may be that the customer wants @Pete-S to consult on the project but not have the entire project because his proposal was way more expensive.
A lost bid is not a termination.
No, I am saying I would have fired the customer. I gave my bid/proposal, you went with vendor B, I'm not fixing the shit they can't do, even if I am getting paid. That's the price they pay for going with cut rate vendors.
That's basically all of IT. If I wasn't willing to fix what other people broke, there would be no business.
True. I meant more so, I wasn't going to come in and fix it based on my original proposal, even though I didn't clearly state that.
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@DustinB3403 said in What would you do...:
Paging @JaredBusch and @scottalanmiller
What would you two do, would you consult the competition or fire the customer?
I think we'd consult. I don't see a reason to fire. A reason to call them dumbasses, but not to fire. But we don't know all fo the quote details. But assuming a "normal" quote situation.
What I would NOT do is offer them any quotes in the future.
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@Pete-S said in What would you do...:
@DustinB3403 @bnrstnr @WLS-ITGuy
Guys, you all have good points.The problem with consulting is that you in the eyes of the customer might become responsible that everything works.
So? Bad customers are bad customers. If the alternative is firing them, there is no risk.
