New PBX - on prem or off?
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@scottalanmiller said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@Dashrender said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@JaredBusch said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@Dashrender said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
The POTS line currently act as fax lines and 911.
There is no need to keep this for 911. You can, but there is no requirement to do so.
As for faxing...... Well you are medical and have abnormal faxing needs.
Assuming that you keep this for faxing and don't mix it with the PBX, there is nothing else to do. The line will go straight from the demarc to the fax machines.
If you want to add it in for 911, then you are adding complexity. You will now need an FXO device to convert it to SIP to connect to the PBX. Obviously if this is a hosted service, you are looping back and forth and it will still fail if the internet is down, PBX is down, etc.
My plan/desire (but can't have emotions here - right?) is to have everything on SIP. I'll need FXO? to convert the SIP lines to analog for the fax machines.
I would like to kill all POTS.If you want legacy fax devices, yes, you will need some sort of gateway device.
I have no choice on the legacy fax devices. While it's true that incoming faxes could all be potentially handled by the PBX (assuming it could handle our volume) outgoing still needs to be available via traditional tray drop.
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@scottalanmiller said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@Dashrender said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@scottalanmiller said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@Dashrender said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
And since you're talking about HA - Are you saying you have your PBXs in your hosted solutions all setup as HA? Are the fault tolerate as well? or just fast to get going on another node?
Are they HA as measured in uptime? Yes.
Are they HA in that we can get them back online insanely fast? Yes.
Do we generally run our 911 through them? No.
You do, so you are just using unrelated examples to try to ignore the real issue we are discussing.
Where are you running 911 then?
Most places keep a local line for fax and 911. Not that I like that solution, but it is a simple fix that many places want. A single line for a single purpose is pretty cheap and solves a stupid legal issue really simply.
$35+/month (after taxes) i don't consider that cheap really.
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@Dashrender said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@scottalanmiller said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@Dashrender said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@scottalanmiller said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@Dashrender said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
And since you're talking about HA - Are you saying you have your PBXs in your hosted solutions all setup as HA? Are the fault tolerate as well? or just fast to get going on another node?
Are they HA as measured in uptime? Yes.
Are they HA in that we can get them back online insanely fast? Yes.
Do we generally run our 911 through them? No.
You do, so you are just using unrelated examples to try to ignore the real issue we are discussing.
Where are you running 911 then?
Most places keep a local line for fax and 911. Not that I like that solution, but it is a simple fix that many places want. A single line for a single purpose is pretty cheap and solves a stupid legal issue really simply.
$35+/month (after taxes) i don't consider that cheap really.
You can use a voip.ms or Skyetel line for like, $1/mo if you don't need faxing.
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@black3dynamite said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
For your fax need, e-Fax is not an option?
The machines do support this - though I've never looked it up. I'm not sure what it takes to make it work. I can tell you if it's a per page charge - nope, won't work. The last several services I looked at would be in excess of $700/month because of our volume. But two POTS lines only costs us $80/m so huge savings.
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@scottalanmiller said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@Dashrender said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@scottalanmiller said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@Dashrender said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@scottalanmiller said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@Dashrender said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
And since you're talking about HA - Are you saying you have your PBXs in your hosted solutions all setup as HA? Are the fault tolerate as well? or just fast to get going on another node?
Are they HA as measured in uptime? Yes.
Are they HA in that we can get them back online insanely fast? Yes.
Do we generally run our 911 through them? No.
You do, so you are just using unrelated examples to try to ignore the real issue we are discussing.
Where are you running 911 then?
Most places keep a local line for fax and 911. Not that I like that solution, but it is a simple fix that many places want. A single line for a single purpose is pretty cheap and solves a stupid legal issue really simply.
$35+/month (after taxes) i don't consider that cheap really.
You can use a voip.ms or Skyetel line for like, $1/mo if you don't need faxing.
Faxing is the whole point. though I'm happy to try using a SIP trunk and a convertor box.
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@Dashrender said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@black3dynamite said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
For your fax need, e-Fax is not an option?
The machines do support this - though I've never looked it up. I'm not sure what it takes to make it work. I can tell you if it's a per page charge - nope, won't work. The last several services I looked at would be in excess of $700/month because of our volume. But two POTS lines only costs us $80/m so huge savings.
How many faxes a month are sent/received?
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@DustinB3403 said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@Dashrender said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@black3dynamite said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
For your fax need, e-Fax is not an option?
The machines do support this - though I've never looked it up. I'm not sure what it takes to make it work. I can tell you if it's a per page charge - nope, won't work. The last several services I looked at would be in excess of $700/month because of our volume. But two POTS lines only costs us $80/m so huge savings.
How many faxes a month are sent/received?
Over 700 pages a day.
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@Dashrender said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@DustinB3403 said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@Dashrender said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@black3dynamite said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
For your fax need, e-Fax is not an option?
The machines do support this - though I've never looked it up. I'm not sure what it takes to make it work. I can tell you if it's a per page charge - nope, won't work. The last several services I looked at would be in excess of $700/month because of our volume. But two POTS lines only costs us $80/m so huge savings.
How many faxes a month are sent/received?
Over 700 pages a day.
That's insane!
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Your daily fax volume is probably the same as our yearly volume... that being said, we've never had any problems in the ~5 years since switching to VOIP with our fax machines connected to $65 Cisco SPA-112's
Something in my gut is telling me that this isn't going to be a robust enough solution, but I really don't know :man_shrugging:
Faxing a single page to faxtoy.net was $0.021 on Twilio
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@bnrstnr said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
Your daily fax volume is probably the same as our yearly volume... that being said, we've never had any problems in the ~5 years since switching to VOIP with our fax machines connected to $65 Cisco SPA-112's
Something in my gut is telling me that this isn't going to be a robust enough solution, but I really don't know :man_shrugging:
Faxing a single page to faxtoy.net was $0.021 on Twilio
Math people.. it is a basic thing..
$0.021 * 700 pages * 20 days = $294 per month. -
@JaredBusch that's assuming that dash only receives/sends faxes on weekdays but yeah. The cost would be the hard pill to swallow.
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On-prem must be the only option here.
Internal calls is a must-have thing in a lot of companies and I imagine a doctors office being one of them.
I don't know what is required to get HA on the PBX but PBX itself has a very low capacity requirement. All voice traffic goes between end-points directly and PBX is just involved in setting up the call. So I think two low power servers/appliances setup would work great - if the on-prem IT infrastructure and support is not up to the HA 24/7/365.
Redundant WAN with different operators will take care of the link to the provider. Providers themselves are already redundant.
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@DustinB3403 said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@JaredBusch that's assuming that dash only receives/sends faxes on weekdays but yeah. The cost would be the hard pill to swallow.
Yep, this is why I have given up on the idea of using a fax service. They just can’t compete against a plain ol pots line.
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@Pete-S said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
All voice traffic goes between end-points directly and PBX is just involved in setting up the call.
This is false. It can be set up that way. but it is not that way by default.
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@JaredBusch said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@Pete-S said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
All voice traffic goes between end-points directly and PBX is just involved in setting up the call.
This is false. It can be set up that way. but it is not that way by default.
Are you sure Jared? I thought SIP is just the signaling protocol and RTP the audio. Only when you need to record calls through the PBX, RTP has to go through the PBX.
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@Pete-S said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@JaredBusch said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@Pete-S said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
All voice traffic goes between end-points directly and PBX is just involved in setting up the call.
This is false. It can be set up that way. but it is not that way by default.
Are you sure Jared? I thought SIP is just the signaling protocol and RTP the audio. Only when you need to record calls through the PBX, RTP has to go through the PBX.
I could see Matt problems here if the default was to try to go direct. In the past many firewalls did not support U-turn traffic
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@Pete-S said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@JaredBusch said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@Pete-S said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
All voice traffic goes between end-points directly and PBX is just involved in setting up the call.
This is false. It can be set up that way. but it is not that way by default.
Are you sure Jared? I thought SIP is just the signaling protocol and RTP the audio. Only when you need to record calls through the PBX, RTP has to go through the PBX.
Very sure. It is a simple setting to flip, but the default is for the PBX to stay in the path.
SIP is only the signaling, that is correct. But SIP goes from point to point only.
Phone to PBX, done.
Then PBX to Phone2, done.
The PBX can then allow the phones to reinvite themselves to a direct call.
But it is something that it has to allow.I never recommend this for day to day use as you lose all ability to track your call flow and troubleshoot.
Special circumstance for a certain business need, can certainly mean turning this setting on.
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@Dashrender said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@Pete-S said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@JaredBusch said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@Pete-S said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
All voice traffic goes between end-points directly and PBX is just involved in setting up the call.
This is false. It can be set up that way. but it is not that way by default.
Are you sure Jared? I thought SIP is just the signaling protocol and RTP the audio. Only when you need to record calls through the PBX, RTP has to go through the PBX.
I could see Matt problems here if the default was to try to go direct. In the past many firewalls did not support U-turn traffic
This would not be a u-turn. The PBX woudl inform the phone of each other's IP and port and the phones would simply establish a direct path for the RTP.
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@JaredBusch said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@Dashrender said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@Pete-S said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@JaredBusch said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
@Pete-S said in New PBX - on prem or off?:
All voice traffic goes between end-points directly and PBX is just involved in setting up the call.
This is false. It can be set up that way. but it is not that way by default.
Are you sure Jared? I thought SIP is just the signaling protocol and RTP the audio. Only when you need to record calls through the PBX, RTP has to go through the PBX.
I could see Matt problems here if the default was to try to go direct. In the past many firewalls did not support U-turn traffic
This would not be a u-turn. The PBX woudl inform the phone of each other's IP and port and the phones would simply establish a direct path for the RTP.
What happens when both phones are behind the same firewall. Doesn’t the PBX from outside of the firewall only see the outside single IP of that firewall.
