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    KVM in Production - Build it yourself

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved IT Discussion
    kvmlabproductionproduction environment
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    • FATeknollogeeF
      FATeknollogee @DustinB3403
      last edited by

      @dustinb3403 said in KVM in Production - Build it yourself:

      @fateknollogee said in KVM in Production - Build it yourself:

      Oops, I forgot to include the link in my previous post...

      KVM host based backup...https://storware.eu/en/storware-vprotect/

      How much does it cost?

      I think it was 600 Euro per host.
      I'll have to dig up the price list.

      FATeknollogeeF 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • stacksofplatesS
        stacksofplates @FATeknollogee
        last edited by stacksofplates

        @fateknollogee said in KVM in Production - Build it yourself:

        @stacksofplates said in KVM in Production - Build it yourself:

        I have 12 KVM hosts in production. For the very few machines that have stateful data, I use either the backup options built into the software/service that's running to a mounted location, my script, or I use ReaR. The rest of the systems are stored in Git.

        ReaR is cli but is really easy to automate.

        I ran an oVirt all in one before and it was really slow. It was on my DL380 with 96GB RAM and dual quad core Xeons, so I don't think it was the box. Bare KVM is just fast and easy.

        I'm with @JaredBusch on this one, no way this sounds user friendly or easy to use.

        There isn't really any need for user friendly anything. It's just easy to use natively. I click one button it builds the server and adds the data it needs. It's really the easiest thing to do. Now I can have Jr. admins build machines exactly the same way every time without any changes. Everything is done through Tower. No more manually logging into boxes to make changes (unless you're trying to learn how something works but that's not in prod).

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • FATeknollogeeF
          FATeknollogee @FATeknollogee
          last edited by

          @fateknollogee said in KVM in Production - Build it yourself:

          @dustinb3403 said in KVM in Production - Build it yourself:

          @fateknollogee said in KVM in Production - Build it yourself:

          Oops, I forgot to include the link in my previous post...

          KVM host based backup...https://storware.eu/en/storware-vprotect/

          How much does it cost?

          I think it was 600 Euro per host.
          I'll have to dig up the price list.

          € 600 per host (2 sockets), w Standard Support includes 1 year maintenance
          € 150 per year Standard Support - 8h response time, 8h/5 working days
          € xxx per year Premium Support - 4h response time, 24h/5 working days
          € 375 per year Titanium Support - 4h response time, 24h/7 working days

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • CloudKnightC
            CloudKnight
            last edited by

            Although I have no issues with KVM, I wouldn't personally use it in a production environment, at least there are more backup solutions for Xenserver and Hyper-V

            Even though the backup script gets the job done, I wouldn't exactly call it practical.

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • ObsolesceO
              Obsolesce
              last edited by

              There appears to be lots of backup solutions for KVM. And these solutions are the best ones. They are simple BASH scripts that do exactly what they are supposed to do, and some PERL scripts.

              The best kinds of backups are these, and that you can configure, and forget about, with the exception of testing restores occasionally.

              These backup solutions are the least likely to fail.

              When you get into vendor-specific and GUI-based backups, that's when thing start to get weird and lose potential reliability.

              I prefer the CLI-based backups for production. They are the most reliable.

              I've NEVER had a powershell / BASH scripted backup fail. I cannot say the same for any GUI-based backup (Veeam, WSB, etc.). In fact, I use PowerShell / BASH to "clean-up or fix" GUI-based backup failures.

              black3dynamiteB 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
              • black3dynamiteB
                black3dynamite @Obsolesce
                last edited by

                @tim_g said in KVM in Production - Build it yourself:

                There appears to be lots of backup solutions for KVM. And these solutions are the best ones. They are simple BASH scripts that do exactly what they are supposed to do, and some PERL scripts.

                The best kinds of backups are these, and that you can configure, and forget about, with the exception of testing restores occasionally.

                These backup solutions are the least likely to fail.

                When you get into vendor-specific and GUI-based backups, that's when thing start to get weird and lose potential reliability.

                I prefer the CLI-based backups for production. They are the most reliable.

                I've NEVER had a powershell / BASH scripted backup fail. I cannot say the same for any GUI-based backup (Veeam, WSB, etc.). In fact, I use PowerShell / BASH to "clean-up or fix" GUI-based backup failures.

                I wouldn't mind a text-based UI backups.

                ObsolesceO 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • ObsolesceO
                  Obsolesce @black3dynamite
                  last edited by

                  @black3dynamite said in KVM in Production - Build it yourself:

                  @tim_g said in KVM in Production - Build it yourself:

                  There appears to be lots of backup solutions for KVM. And these solutions are the best ones. They are simple BASH scripts that do exactly what they are supposed to do, and some PERL scripts.

                  The best kinds of backups are these, and that you can configure, and forget about, with the exception of testing restores occasionally.

                  These backup solutions are the least likely to fail.

                  When you get into vendor-specific and GUI-based backups, that's when thing start to get weird and lose potential reliability.

                  I prefer the CLI-based backups for production. They are the most reliable.

                  I've NEVER had a powershell / BASH scripted backup fail. I cannot say the same for any GUI-based backup (Veeam, WSB, etc.). In fact, I use PowerShell / BASH to "clean-up or fix" GUI-based backup failures.

                  I wouldn't mind a text-based UI backups.

                  Yeah, that's great for full backups. But suppose you have a multi-TB sized VM... maybe you want to do a full backup weekly, and incrementals daily. I don't know how you'd accomplish that in the same way.

                  CloudKnightC 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • ObsolesceO
                    Obsolesce
                    last edited by

                    I suppose it, like everything else, comes down to your specific environmental needs.

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • CloudKnightC
                      CloudKnight @Obsolesce
                      last edited by

                      Text, CLI based doesn't bother me, I would like to see actual speed of VM backups using the script, and does it enable incremental backups of the VM?

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • black3dynamiteB
                        black3dynamite
                        last edited by

                        I amazed that cockpit doesn't have some kind of package for managing backups. That would be awesome.
                        Someone with mad skills could probably create a backup plugin for Cockpit.
                        http://cockpit-project.org/blog/creating-plugins-for-the-cockpit-user-interface.html

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                        • F
                          Francesco Provino
                          last edited by

                          Seems that Bacula has a KVM plugin: https://www.baculasystems.com/enterprise-backup-solution-with-bacula-systems/virtual-machine-backup-software . Any experience with that?

                          matteo nunziatiM 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • matteo nunziatiM
                            matteo nunziati
                            last edited by matteo nunziati

                            I think what @DustinB3403 feels bad is the mix of config and logic in the same file. If you would be able to separate the working logic from config, then edit a bunch of lines in a txt would not be so terrible .
                            Conceptually it should mot be so terrible:
                            1- snap
                            2- mount snap and backup location
                            3- run borg backup or similar
                            4- unmount everything

                            Testing is the most long part. With stuff like borg you should be confident in both backup and recovery.

                            Acutally recovery is trickier?! Don't know, should be like:
                            1- shutdown the machine
                            2- mount machine and backup location
                            3- restore

                            Issue is: how to programmatically tell borg which snap to use to recover...

                            I guess 2 of days of work... And I'm not super fast at writing code.

                            What has stopped me from using kvm in production was: what if I have to off load stuff to other people? Will they be
                            skilled enough for this crap?! So I just moved to hyperv+altaro...

                            F 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • F
                              Francesco Provino @matteo nunziati
                              last edited by

                              @matteo-nunziati said in KVM in Production - Build it yourself:

                              What has stopped me from using kvm in production was: what if I have to off load stuff to other people? Will they be
                              skilled enough for this crap?! So I just moved to hyperv+altaro...

                              That's sad. I hope some user friendly solution will come out soon. I'm in the KVM boat since 2010, KVM is SO good today. Maybe it will get faster adoption after the AWS move.

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • Emad RE
                                Emad R @stacksofplates
                                last edited by

                                @stacksofplates said in KVM in Production - Build it yourself:

                                I have 12 KVM hosts in production. For the very few machines that have stateful data, I use either the backup options built into the software/service that's running to a mounted location, my script, or I use ReaR. The rest of the systems are stored in Git.

                                Bare KVM is just fast and easy. I second that, but the issue there is no standard way to manage it, especially backups, so this leaves KVM a solution for person that knows much about, and usually the sole IT in that location, cause if there was other IT folks, they just pick ESXi or Hyper-V to ensure continuity.

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 6
                                • matteo nunziatiM
                                  matteo nunziati @Francesco Provino
                                  last edited by

                                  @francesco-provino said in KVM in Production - Build it yourself:

                                  Seems that Bacula has a KVM plugin: https://www.baculasystems.com/enterprise-backup-solution-with-bacula-systems/virtual-machine-backup-software . Any experience with that?

                                  No experience but reading the online man suggests a lot of pita to setup bacula, while the kvm plugin seems quite abysmal. Not much more then the famous perl script or @stacksofplates script

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • stacksofplatesS
                                    stacksofplates
                                    last edited by

                                    Mine isn’t meant to be a full backup replacement. It’s a way to get full disk images once a week or so. I think most people that are using KVM are either using cloud infra or using state machines and agents when needed. I don’t think there is much of a demand for this type of backup solution.

                                    However I firmly believe any org can use automation. It’s not just for large orgs. If I can do it for everything in my house, any size business can.

                                    DashrenderD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                    • DashrenderD
                                      Dashrender @stacksofplates
                                      last edited by

                                      @stacksofplates said in KVM in Production - Build it yourself:

                                      Mine isn’t meant to be a full backup replacement. It’s a way to get full disk images once a week or so. I think most people that are using KVM are either using cloud infra or using state machines and agents when needed. I don’t think there is much of a demand for this type of backup solution.

                                      However I firmly believe any org can use automation. It’s not just for large orgs. If I can do it for everything in my house, any size business can.

                                      So what do you do with your stateless data - like photos? video files, etc?

                                      stacksofplatesS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • stacksofplatesS
                                        stacksofplates @Dashrender
                                        last edited by

                                        @dashrender said in KVM in Production - Build it yourself:

                                        @stacksofplates said in KVM in Production - Build it yourself:

                                        Mine isn’t meant to be a full backup replacement. It’s a way to get full disk images once a week or so. I think most people that are using KVM are either using cloud infra or using state machines and agents when needed. I don’t think there is much of a demand for this type of backup solution.

                                        However I firmly believe any org can use automation. It’s not just for large orgs. If I can do it for everything in my house, any size business can.

                                        So what do you do with your stateless data - like photos? video files, etc?

                                        For home? Amazon. It’s automatically backed up there. I do have a bunch of music but that’s on one NFS VM that’s running CrashPlan. But like I said it’s one of the few that would require an agent.

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                        • D
                                          dave_c
                                          last edited by

                                          I am starting to play with KVM after using XenServer for a while. While looking for a good KVM backup solution I found:
                                          https://github.com/jagane/qemu-kvm-livebackup
                                          https://www.linux-kvm.org/images/b/b6/2011-forum-LiveBackup.pdf

                                          I will be testing as soon as possible (probably in 1 week). Does anyone has any experience with it?

                                          ObsolesceO 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • ObsolesceO
                                            Obsolesce @dave_c
                                            last edited by

                                            @dave_c said in KVM in Production - Build it yourself:

                                            I am starting to play with KVM after using XenServer for a while. While looking for a good KVM backup solution I found:
                                            https://github.com/jagane/qemu-kvm-livebackup
                                            https://www.linux-kvm.org/images/b/b6/2011-forum-LiveBackup.pdf

                                            I will be testing as soon as possible (probably in 1 week). Does anyone has any experience with it?

                                            The last commit was in 2011. Is it still usable?

                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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