What would it take to get your boss to move to office 365?
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@JaredBusch said:
@Carnival-Boy said:
They've already scrapped Office OEM licences, and have effectively scrapped Office retail licences (though I'm still clinging on to them by my finger nails).
Why are you not using Open License anyway? Granted the math works out better for Office 365 unless you count never upgrading.
This is a good point. I think I will start signing users up for O365 as and when I need new Office licences for them, rather than trying to soldier on with Retail licences. So I'll be using O365 purely for Office licencing, and continuing to use our on-site Exchange for e-mail.
Are there any real advantages for the average SMB in choosing the E3 plan over the "Midsize Business" plan (apart from the terrible name of the latter)?
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@Carnival-Boy said:
@JaredBusch said:
@Carnival-Boy said:
They've already scrapped Office OEM licences, and have effectively scrapped Office retail licences (though I'm still clinging on to them by my finger nails).
Why are you not using Open License anyway? Granted the math works out better for Office 365 unless you count never upgrading.
This is a good point. I think I will start signing users up for O365 as and when I need new Office licences for them, rather than trying to soldier on with Retail licences. So I'll be using O365 purely for Office licencing, and continuing to use our on-site Exchange for e-mail.
Are there any real advantages for the average SMB in choosing the E3 plan over the "Midsize Business" plan (apart from the terrible name of the latter)?
If you're keeping onsite Exchange, why not simply sell them the Office Pro Plus only version of O365 - It's $12/user/month - might as well save that $8/user/month if you're not going to use it.
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@Dashrender said:
If you're keeping onsite Exchange, why not simply sell them the Office Pro Plus only version of O365 - It's $12/user/month - might as well save that $8/user/month if you're not going to use it.
In the UK, Pro Plus is GBP 10.10 per month and Midsize Business is GBP 9.80. So Midsize Business is actually cheaper, even though it includes loads of extra features. That seems a bit crazy? Another reason for not going with Pro Plus is I don't want any pain as and when I upgrade to hosted Exchange. I've been bitten by "changing plans" pain before.
I still find "Midsize Business" a really annoying name for a product though.
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That is definitely bizarre pricing.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
@Dashrender said:
If you're keeping onsite Exchange, why not simply sell them the Office Pro Plus only version of O365 - It's $12/user/month - might as well save that $8/user/month if you're not going to use it.
In the UK, Pro Plus is GBP 10.10 per month and Midsize Business is GBP 9.80. So Midsize Business is actually cheaper, even though it includes loads of extra features. That seems a bit crazy? Another reason for not going with Pro Plus is I don't want any pain as and when I upgrade to hosted Exchange. I've been bitten by "changing plans" pain before.
I still find "Midsize Business" a really annoying name for a product though.
Is midsize what you really want? you won't find yourself getting bit by the 'changing plans' already mentioned?
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Mid size also cannot mix plans.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Mid size also cannot mix plans.
Yep, so if you get a copier that needs to scan to email, you'll be paying full price instead of putting them on the $4 per month EOP1.
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I just told them I was doing it. But after 12 years, I don't get questioned as much.
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@alexntg said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Mid size also cannot mix plans.
Yep, so if you get a copier that needs to scan to email, you'll be paying full price instead of putting them on the $4 per month EOP1.
Yeah. Those are the kinds of caveats that people really don't think through.
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@alexntg said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Mid size also cannot mix plans.
Yep, so if you get a copier that needs to scan to email, you'll be paying full price instead of putting them on the $4 per month EOP1.
You can do un authenticated SMTP to office 365 on the small business plans, you just have to set up a connector and restrict it to an IP or IP block. I have ours restricted to a /29
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@scottalanmiller said:
@alexntg said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Mid size also cannot mix plans.
Yep, so if you get a copier that needs to scan to email, you'll be paying full price instead of putting them on the $4 per month EOP1.
Yeah. Those are the kinds of caveats that people really don't think through.
What do you mean, mix plans? I think you've hit on a great reason why your boss might not want to move to Office 365. Too many caveats. With on-site Exchange there are no caveats. You get an awesome enterprise class e-mail system that is guaranteed to do everything an SMB might want, both now and in the future.
Again, it's the little things that annoy me. Microsoft introduced an awesome product in "Midsize Business" that is specifically designed for mid size businesses (as the name suggests). But it you were a loyal early adopter and signed up to an Enterprise plan before they released this product, Microsoft won't let you switch. EVER! You'll be paying thousands of dollars extra a year for the rest of your life. Why is that? It's like a punishment for being a loyal early adopter.
I think a boss should question whether he wants to trust all of his mission critical data to a company that treats its customers this way. Even if they're ok today, what if you don't like them in five years time. By then you'll have hundred of megabytes of data on their servers - it's going to be really difficult to switch to another provider. Does O365 come with any restrictions on how much subscription charges can rise per annum?
PS. I presume I won't have any problem setting up e-mail from copiers on the Midsize plan? I've googled but can't find any information. Is it just a case that I'd have to pay full price for an extra user for each copier? Honestly, it sometimes feels like you need a Masters degree in Microsoft licencing just to understand this stuff. That might be fine for you pros, but I'm a generalist trying to run a small manufacturing business here and could do without the hassle.
I can really see the appeal of the simplicity of Google Apps. It's an inferior product, but at least you know what you're getting.
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The cost of E3 is $20 and mid size business is $15. So to pay thousands more a year is a bit of an over reaction. You are paying for office rights, not exchange.
If you only want exchange it is only $8 a month per user for E1.compare the same things. Don't lash out left right and center with misinformation. One would think you are a media person not IT.
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@JaredBusch said:
The cost of E3 is $20 and mid size business is $15. So to pay thousands more a year is a bit of an over reaction. You are paying for office rights, not exchange.
$5 per user per month. For a 100 users, that's $6,000 per year. 200 users is $12,000. In the UK, the difference between plans is $8.70 at current exchange rates, so even a 100 user shop will be paying over $10k pa extra. That's thousands in my book. Where's the misinformation?
@JaredBusch said:
One would think you are a media person not IT.
That's quite an insult. I'd rather you just called me an idiot, tbh.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@alexntg said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Mid size also cannot mix plans.
Yep, so if you get a copier that needs to scan to email, you'll be paying full price instead of putting them on the $4 per month EOP1.
Yeah. Those are the kinds of caveats that people really don't think through.
What do you mean, mix plans? I think you've hit on a great reason why your boss might not want to move to Office 365. Too many caveats. With on-site Exchange there are no caveats. You get an awesome enterprise class e-mail system that is guaranteed to do everything an SMB might want, both now and in the future.
Again, it's the little things that annoy me. Microsoft introduced an awesome product in "Midsize Business" that is specifically designed for mid size businesses (as the name suggests). But it you were a loyal early adopter and signed up to an Enterprise plan before they released this product, Microsoft won't let you switch. EVER! You'll be paying thousands of dollars extra a year for the rest of your life. Why is that? It's like a punishment for being a loyal early adopter.
I think a boss should question whether he wants to trust all of his mission critical data to a company that treats its customers this way. Even if they're ok today, what if you don't like them in five years time. By then you'll have hundred of megabytes of data on their servers - it's going to be really difficult to switch to another provider. Does O365 come with any restrictions on how much subscription charges can rise per annum?
PS. I presume I won't have any problem setting up e-mail from copiers on the Midsize plan? I've googled but can't find any information. Is it just a case that I'd have to pay full price for an extra user for each copier? Honestly, it sometimes feels like you need a Masters degree in Microsoft licencing just to understand this stuff. That might be fine for you pros, but I'm a generalist trying to run a small manufacturing business here and could do without the hassle.
I can really see the appeal of the simplicity of Google Apps. It's an inferior product, but at least you know what you're getting.
Except that makes no sense. On premise comes with tons if caveats. And things like not mixing plans - that's why we advise people against opting into those limited plans. That caveat doesn't exist with on premise Exchange and it doesn't exist with Hosted Exchange. So using that's a very odd comparison.
On premise Exchange doesn't come with Lync, Yammer, Sharepoint Enterprise, MS Office, AV, spam filtering, hosting, storage, the servers, the IT team to support them, backups, patch management, a support desk and direct access to the developers. Aren't those things caveats too?
Using the options of one to act like caveats of a non comparable product doesn't work. It would be like if I compared the limitations of Exchange to simply not having email at all. Sure, except it has one caveat - I have no email.
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@JaredBusch said:
The cost of E3 is $20 and mid size business is $15. So to pay thousands more a year is a bit of an over reaction. You are paying for office rights, not exchange.
If you only want exchange it is only $8 a month per user for E1.compare the same things. Don't lash out left right and center with misinformation. One would think you are a media person not IT.
Exchange is only $4. E1 is Exchange, Lync, Sharepoint and Yammer.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
$5 per user per month. For a 100 users, that's $6,000 per year. 200 users is $12,000. I
Yes it is 33% more for the "full" package. You actually do get a little more with the E3 but it is minor. But what you pay for is flexibility which in any organization of that size you would expect to pay the difference.
For example: any user that doesn't need MS Office immediately drops from $20 to $8. That is a big potential savings.
And any service accounts or users who need only email are just $4. That's a really big savings.
Maybe you have an org where these things don't make sense. But typically a Cosby this big won't really see a cost savings or very little if one in the mid size plans.
And with the E plans, individual users can move fluidly between plans as the needs change. No lock in.
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Yes. Copiers can have their own email but yes you have to pay for an account. So on mid size that is $15 per copier and on E it is $4.
But few copiers support modern security for email so don't be surprised if you don't need an email relay to handle the security.
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Did I miss something about the early adopters? In what way is Microsoft barring them from the mid size plans. Not saying that they aren't but I've not heard about that.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Did I miss something about the early adopters? In what way is Microsoft barring them from the mid size plans. Not saying that they aren't but I've not heard about that.
AFAIK, if you signed up to an Enterprise plan, you can't then move to a Midsize Business plan. It's good that you recommend midsize companies to go for an Enterprise plan, and I fully understand and appreciate your reasons behind that. But Microsoft isn't recommending that.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Except that makes no sense. On premise comes with tons if caveats. And things like not mixing plans - that's why we advise people against opting into those limited plans. That caveat doesn't exist with on premise Exchange and it doesn't exist with Hosted Exchange. So using that's a very odd comparison.
On premise Exchange doesn't come with Lync, Yammer, Sharepoint Enterprise, MS Office, AV, spam filtering, hosting, storage, the servers, the IT team to support them, backups, patch management, a support desk and direct access to the developers. Aren't those things caveats too?
I'd call them features not caveats. And if you want them, you can add them. My beef is simply with the pain of switching plans as your business circumstances change, not the lack of features.
