Virtualization Build - Punch holes in this build please



  • The goal with this build is to use Xen Orchestra's Continuous Replication between the primary and second servers (immediately below) as the "hot spare". While also using the Delta Functionality to export to an onsite NAS for a Backup Target with the option of the Offsite backup system. All servers were quoted from xbyte.com

    Server systems refresh and Virtualization
    Purchase of a matching pair required.
    • Dell PowerEdge R730 Server Base (Dell PowerEdge R730 I 2.5" Chassis with up to 16 Hard Drives and 3 PCIe Slots )
    • CPU (2 X Intel E5-2670v3 2.3GHz/30M/2133MHz 12-Core 120W)
    • Memory (96GB (12x8G) DDR4 RDIMM - Performance Optimized)
    • Primary Controller (RAID) (PERC H730P Mini Mono Controller 2GB NV Cache (RAID 0/1/5/6/10/50/60)
    • iDRAC8 Enterprise with Vflash, 16GB SD Card
    • Dell 1100W Redundant Power Supplies (1+1)
    • Dell Optical Drives (Dell DVD-ROM Drive)
    • Dell Rail Kit (Dell 1U Sliding Ready Rails)
    • Intel Ethernet I350 QP 1Gb Network Daughter Card
    • Internal Dual SD Module with Dual Dell 16GB SD Card
    • BIOS (Custom Configuration and Full Testing, Full Firmware Updates (May delay order 1 day))
    • Dell Warranty & Onsite Service (Exclusive Offer) (3 Year Dell ProSupport 4HR 7x24 Onsite: Non Mission Critical)

    Server no drives($13,492.12/Each)
    12x 960GB 2.5" SATA MLC Solid State Drive (Edge Server Enterprise Class) ($399.99/Each)
    Price per Server: $18,280.12
    Total Price $36,560.24

    Onsite NAS is not required for live VMs, all data storage on hosts.

    Configuration details
    Configure both servers for RAID 5, install XenServer and configure for Continuous Replication (Using Xen Orchestra) between both servers. Virtualize all of our servers and migrate them to the new servers.
    Setup Hourly Delta Backup functionality to local NAS.

    Standard Rates for Locally Based Global IT Consultancy 21-30 hours: $200/hour

    Backup Software – Xen Orchestra
    Xen Orchestra works at the hypervisor level and comes in several service levels. The most cost efficient approach is the Source build. Costing nothing; Ever for every feature in the highest tier. But this also doesn’t come with paid support from the development team.
    Prices range from $70 – 500 / Month for the support tiers, also each tier has different features.
    Onsite Backup 24TB Usable Backup Space RAID 10
    Synology NAS RS2416+ $1,699.99
    12x HGST H3IKNAS40003272SA 4TB Hard disks $167.85/Each

    Offsite Backup and Reoccurring Expenses
    Colocation (Rented Rack Space)
    Hardware: Dell PowerEdge R510 Server (Hotswap drives) $999.00
    12x HGST H3IKNAS40003272SA 4TB Hard disks $167.85/Each
    Rackspace rental cost* ~ $50-100/Month

    Total upfront ~ $3,013 + Monthlies

    Amazon
    Amazon offers Offsite storage options as well. Additional exploration required. Rough estimates:
    $120/Month at 4TB of space. We’d be paying for 10TB of S3 Space
    $0.03 per GB for the 1ST TB then $0.0295 per GB up to 49 TB / Month
    $0.09/GB Download cost (in recovery situations)



  • What kind of work loads are you going to be run on this? Do you need 24-Cores of processing? I just ask because if you are running Windows on the server that may make licensing expensive since they are going to license per core now. Just a thought.


  • Service Provider

    You have not accounted for any time on this.

    Labor for projects like this can easily reach the same costs as the hardware.

    I would seriously be looking at not wasting so much time doing things yourself with XS/XO.

    Use XOA at least or drop the entire stack in favor of a @scale device onsite and in colo.



  • I am also recommending the XOA appliance for our backup, but it has to be mentioned in the quote.

    I did account for a rough amount of time 21-30 hours at $200/hour for labor.

    I did forget to mention that we currently have Shadow Protect for the next 3 years which will likely be used in someway here.


  • Service Provider

    @DustinB3403 said:

    I am also recommending the XOA appliance for our backup, but it has to be mentioned in the quote.

    It was not in the post. You explicitly mentioned using XO not XOA. Or at least that is how I read it.

    I did account for a rough amount of time 21-30 hours at $200/hour for labor.

    I did see that time listed, but are you saying that there is not going to be any of your time also?

    I did forget to mention that we currently have Shadow Protect for the next 3 years which will likely be used in someway here.

    That is an agent based backup solution and, assuming you are P2V/V2V existing servers already setup in Shadow Protect, has nothing to do with this project unless you are stealing its storage.



  • @DustinB3403 this is a kinda "what if" question..
    Let's say the client asked to pay for this project on a monthly basis to save cash (vs spending a lump sum)
    What/how would you charge 'em?



  • Sorry about the XO vs XOA, I am recommending for the XOA variant. Just so it's clear.

    Our time is always here, so there is no added cost for us to be here to work on the migrate.

    ShadowProtect can be run on the VMs (which we have already on the physical servers) in lue of XOA or along with it to create a separate backup of just the Network shares.


  • Service Provider

    @DustinB3403 said:

    Our time is always here, so there is no added cost for us to be here to work on the migrate.

    tl;dr Employee time is not free.

    This is a fallacy. Your time is not always there. Your time is dedicated to other tasks (or should be). It is true it is not an additional up front cost to the company because you are salary or something. But you have normal duties that do not involve a server upgrade that have to be put off to do a server upgrade.



  • @JaredBusch said:

    @DustinB3403 said:

    Our time is always here, so there is no added cost for us to be here to work on the migrate.

    tl;dr Employee time is not free.

    This is a fallacy. Your time is not always there. Your time is dedicated to other tasks (or should be). It is true it is not an additional up front cost to the company because you are salary or something. But you have normal duties that do not involve a server upgrade that have to be put off to do a server upgrade.

    To summarize you agree with the above build, but use XOA.


  • Service Provider

    @DustinB3403 said:

    @JaredBusch said:

    @DustinB3403 said:

    Our time is always here, so there is no added cost for us to be here to work on the migrate.

    tl;dr Employee time is not free.

    This is a fallacy. Your time is not always there. Your time is dedicated to other tasks (or should be). It is true it is not an additional up front cost to the company because you are salary or something. But you have normal duties that do not involve a server upgrade that have to be put off to do a server upgrade.

    To summarize you agree with the above build, but use XOA.

    And you need to add time. but yes. it is not a bad design. I would need to know a lot more about your systems to say if the specs are too much or too lite. But they are solid.


  • Service Provider

    Looks pretty solid. Good devices, good setup.

    Only thing I would add is maybe throwing in something like a Scale setup as well so that you would have a point of comparison. It's a very different design, three nodes instead of two, all inclusive instead of parts. It shifts the pricing around to different things in different places. At that cost, though, you are able to consider one. The big advantage of the Scale is inclusive support pricing and easy future expansion through node addition... and the big one is providing something that your company is prepared to support themselves without needing your expertise should you leave, get hit by the bus, etc.



  • Thank you all for the advice.



  • @DustinB3403 said:

    12x 960GB 2.5" SATA MLC Solid State Drive

    0_1454433338578_4899429947_b60fb08e94.jpg



  • @MattSpeller Yeah no fooling around with this build.

    🙂



  • @DustinB3403 said:

    @MattSpeller Yeah no fooling around with this build.

    🙂

    You should post iops numbers if you go this way, just so we can drool some more.



  • @travisdh1 said:

    @DustinB3403 said:

    @MattSpeller Yeah no fooling around with this build.

    🙂

    You should post iops numbers if you go this way, just so we can drool some more.

    Don't do this. Please. I'll have to add pages to my diary to account for the emotional baggage this will create.



  • @travisdh1 said:

    @DustinB3403 said:

    @MattSpeller Yeah no fooling around with this build.

    🙂

    You should post iops numbers if you go this way, just so we can drool some more.

    I'll be head of the lynch mob if he fails to post them

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  • Doesn't using a Scale device change his risk solution?

    As I understood it, Dustin plans to have two nearly synced servers over two diverse locations. In addition to that he'll have offsite backup at Rackspace or someone else.

    This allows for the company to completely loose a location and stay up and running completely (though networking will have to be considered to make sure things flow correctly).

    With a Scale solution, while it is possibly simpler to support also can't survive the main site being lost.

    Now maybe that doesn't matter, i.e. if the main site is down, the whole company would be down anyway.

    Just a thought.



  • @DustinB3403

    12x 960GB 2.5" SATA MLC Solid State Drive (Edge Server Enterprise Class) ($399.99/Each)

    Damn, that's what I paid for my 1 TB drives from HP a few years ago...



  • @Dashrender said:

    @DustinB3403

    12x 960GB 2.5" SATA MLC Solid State Drive (Edge Server Enterprise Class) ($399.99/Each)

    Damn, that's what I paid for my 1 TB drives from HP a few years ago...

    1TB SSD from a few years ago?

    Or Spinning Rust from a few years ago?



  • @DustinB3403 said:

    @Dashrender said:

    @DustinB3403

    12x 960GB 2.5" SATA MLC Solid State Drive (Edge Server Enterprise Class) ($399.99/Each)

    Damn, that's what I paid for my 1 TB drives from HP a few years ago...

    1TB SSD from a few years ago?

    Or Spinning Rust from a few years ago?

    Spinning rust.



  • I have a nearly 5 year old IBM server that if I replaced it with SSDs would probably last me another 5+ years.


  • Service Provider

    @Dashrender said:

    Doesn't using a Scale device change his risk solution?

    As I understood it, Dustin plans to have two nearly synced servers over two diverse locations. In addition to that he'll have offsite backup at Rackspace or someone else.

    This allows for the company to completely loose a location and stay up and running completely (though networking will have to be considered to make sure things flow correctly).

    With a Scale solution, while it is possibly simpler to support also can't survive the main site being lost.

    Now maybe that doesn't matter, i.e. if the main site is down, the whole company would be down anyway.

    Just a thought.

    I thought that his two main servers were at a single site.



  • @scottalanmiller said:

    @Dashrender said:

    Doesn't using a Scale device change his risk solution?

    As I understood it, Dustin plans to have two nearly synced servers over two diverse locations. In addition to that he'll have offsite backup at Rackspace or someone else.

    This allows for the company to completely loose a location and stay up and running completely (though networking will have to be considered to make sure things flow correctly).

    With a Scale solution, while it is possibly simpler to support also can't survive the main site being lost.

    Now maybe that doesn't matter, i.e. if the main site is down, the whole company would be down anyway.

    Just a thought.

    I thought that his two main servers were at a single site.

    You're probably right, I must have misread it.


  • Service Provider

    You could easily be right, I just had not noticed that he said two sites. I miss stuff like that often, though. But I looked back and have not found it yet.



  • @scottalanmiller said:

    You could easily be right, I just had not noticed that he said two sites. I miss stuff like that often, though. But I looked back and have not found it yet.

    yeah I read the second site into it. It's not there.



  • This seems very costly to me. Are you using xByte? Have to look at a R720, or R710?


  • Service Provider

    @anonymous said:

    This seems very costly to me. Are you using xByte? Have to look at a R720, or R710?

    Those are xByte quotes. Did you notice all of the SSDs in there?



  • @DustinB3403

    Dell Warranty & Onsite Service (Exclusive Offer) (3 Year Dell ProSupport 4HR 7x24 Onsite: Non Mission Critical)
    Server no drives
    ($10,156+/Each)

    Why do you need such a costly warranty? Isn't the point of having 2 hosts that you only need 1 running at a given time?



  • @anonymous said:

    This seems very costly to me. Are you using xByte? Have to look at a R720, or R710?

    As SAM mentioned there's almost $5k of SSD in there, plus it's pretty new gear. Brand new from Dell I shudder to think of what that would run you.


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