Negotiating a retention bonus
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What happens to the data center staff?
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I'm assuming they won't retain the DC people - so that's the equivalent of loosing 3 (I think Tony said it was three people equivalent) So that's three people released/downsized/fired/etc.
Your other 4, well you've stated that at least 2 will stay, and a third if you stay. So that takes their department from 7 to 9 or 10.
Perhaps all three of you are needed at the new company to handle the extra load, but it really seems like it should be unlikely that they would need you all. the 1000 end user devices should be being taken care of by bench personal, not IT personal (much lower pay). But if you are including that type of work in this as well, OK I can see keeping all three people.
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@Dashrender said:
I'm assuming they won't retain the DC people - so that's the equivalent of loosing 3 (I think Tony said it was three people equivalent) So that's three people released/downsized/fired/etc.
I was estimating as to their equivalency.
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The data center services a bunch of smaller community banks so they will just do what they are doing. Losing our business isnt really big in their world.
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@lhatsynot said:
The data center services a bunch of smaller community banks so they will just do what they are doing. Losing our business isnt really big in their world.
Totally makes sense. But this means that they are not intending to retain everyone but are phasing several out directly and several via attrition brought on by lowering their compensation (through increases in work requirements without equivalent compensation.)
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@scottalanmiller said:
(through increases in work requirements without equivalent compensation.)
This is an interesting thought - I've never heard of anyone in IT getting raises when a merger happened.. instead they just see their workload increase, as you mentioned...
Almost seems like a great time to visit with management and say " hey don't forget since you're not really adding any additional staff to IT, yet you are doubling our workload, we feel it's only fair that you compensate us for the additional work." - right?
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@scottalanmiller said:
several via attrition brought on by lowering their compensation (through increases in work requirements without equivalent compensation.)Unfortunately the more I think about it... I think this is me. They essentially already have one of me who is the new bosses right hand man. Bonus just to get through the merger and no salary increase talks. Well f[moderated]!
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There is a huge amount of pressure on them to reduce head count, I guarantee it. And you are part of the old guard, the culture of a shop that they will want to go away. I've never heard of being on the "absorbed" side of a merger ended up well.
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Well... Then is anyone hiring?
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@lhatsynot It sounds like you work at First Niagara, which was bought out by Key Bank just a week or two ago...
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Well new twist. I talked to my bosses boss and he brought up that he knows I have not gotten an offer worth really considering from the new company and also knows that I have my resume out there (I told him that i did) so he stressed to me how much he wants me to stick around until the merger date (April 29th 2016). He then asked me to bring him any offers that I get and give him a chance to match it. He implied that he will be looking into improving the retention bonus (he's the one that told me it should be $20K). My concern is that he will not be around long after the merger so any salary match he gives will only put me in a worse spot with the new company. Guess we will see what happens.
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Never bring an offer from another company to a current one. That's a poisoned well situation. Even if they match the offer without hesitation - it means you had to threaten them to get the deal and they are not happy (or they would have offered you that much in the first place.) It's time to walk. That's a horrible situation to be in.
Basically he is trying to trick you into burning your bridges by getting good offers, he matches it temporarily or promises to, and you don't take a good, healthy job while getting stuck where you are and either they increase their leverage to keep you or they just resent you and things go badly.
It's a standard best practice to never go down that road. If you feel the need to do this, it means you know that the situation has deteriorated to the point that you should be out as soon as you can be.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Never bring an offer from another company to a current one. That's a poisoned well situation. Even if they match the offer without hesitation - it means you had to threaten them to get the deal and they are not happy (or they would have offered you that much in the first place.) It's time to walk. That's a horrible situation to be in.
Basically he is trying to trick you into burning your bridges by getting good offers, he matches it temporarily or promises to, and you don't take a good, healthy job while getting stuck where you are and either they increase their leverage to keep you or they just resent you and things go badly.
It's a standard best practice to never go down that road. If you feel the need to do this, it means you know that the situation has deteriorated to the point that you should be out as soon as you can be.
One time when I left one employer for another, it was a $30k salary increase. The first employer offered to match it without blinking. I got so pissed that I was seeing spots. I managed to get my temper under control and not burn the bridge behind me.
This was a good thing as I ended up consulting back for them through my new employer.
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@JaredBusch said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Never bring an offer from another company to a current one. That's a poisoned well situation. Even if they match the offer without hesitation - it means you had to threaten them to get the deal and they are not happy (or they would have offered you that much in the first place.) It's time to walk. That's a horrible situation to be in.
Basically he is trying to trick you into burning your bridges by getting good offers, he matches it temporarily or promises to, and you don't take a good, healthy job while getting stuck where you are and either they increase their leverage to keep you or they just resent you and things go badly.
It's a standard best practice to never go down that road. If you feel the need to do this, it means you know that the situation has deteriorated to the point that you should be out as soon as you can be.
One time when I left one employer for another, it was a $30k salary increase. The first employer offered to match it without blinking. I got so pissed that I was seeing spots. I managed to get my temper under control and not burn the bridge behind me.
This was a good thing as I ended up consulting back for them through my new employer.
Maybe that's an idea depending on what offers I get. Contract back with them to help for tons of $$.
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That's a common approach. Don't leave yourself vulnerable. Your relationship with the current job is done, that's just something that seems like you need to accept. But providing contracting back in a "relationless" mode can make a lot of sense. But never give them career leverage, the time for that has past.
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@lhatsynot said:
@JaredBusch said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Never bring an offer from another company to a current one. That's a poisoned well situation. Even if they match the offer without hesitation - it means you had to threaten them to get the deal and they are not happy (or they would have offered you that much in the first place.) It's time to walk. That's a horrible situation to be in.
Basically he is trying to trick you into burning your bridges by getting good offers, he matches it temporarily or promises to, and you don't take a good, healthy job while getting stuck where you are and either they increase their leverage to keep you or they just resent you and things go badly.
It's a standard best practice to never go down that road. If you feel the need to do this, it means you know that the situation has deteriorated to the point that you should be out as soon as you can be.
One time when I left one employer for another, it was a $30k salary increase. The first employer offered to match it without blinking. I got so pissed that I was seeing spots. I managed to get my temper under control and not burn the bridge behind me.
This was a good thing as I ended up consulting back for them through my new employer.
Maybe that's an idea depending on what offers I get. Contract back with them to help for tons of $$.
I went to work for an IT Consulting firm and everything was through them.
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@scottalanmiller said:
That's a common approach. Don't leave yourself vulnerable. Your relationship with the current job is done, that's just something that seems like you need to accept. But providing contracting back in a "relationless" mode can make a lot of sense. But never give them career leverage, the time for that has past.
Very few people find themselves in your position Scott. One where money barely matters and the jobs/careers are knocking your door down.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
That's a common approach. Don't leave yourself vulnerable. Your relationship with the current job is done, that's just something that seems like you need to accept. But providing contracting back in a "relationless" mode can make a lot of sense. But never give them career leverage, the time for that has past.
Very few people find themselves in your position Scott. One where money barely matters and the jobs/careers are knocking your door down.
Scott's fiscal and professional opportunities have nothing to do with this one.
Q: If I was worth and immediate 30k more to that employer, why were they not paying me more?
A: Because they were taking advantage of me for the benefit of the company.
Now, this is what a company should do to an extent. Because it is a for profit entity. but that extent has to be tempered by what it takes to keep employees. Constantly underpaying will not keep you in business.
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@JaredBusch said:
Q: If I was worth and immediate 30k more to that employer, why were they not paying me more?
I have a hard time with this one, My first response would be
A: because you didn't ask for more.Oddly enough I had a situation like this happen. I was hired for a position and at the end of the first year I felt that my growth warranted a $5K raise to put me in the starting range of a Linux admin (this was 13 years ago - haven't really touched Linux since I left there). Lucky for me when I had the sit down with my boss, he had already done the leg work and was offering me something more than the $5K I was going to ask for - win/win!
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But I also heard this story/fable.
A person gets a job at a newspaper, before he is hired he is asked what he feels he should make. For the sake of the story we'll say he says $20K. The newspaper hires him and offered him $20K. Some weeks latter he finds out that the other 4 people they hired around the same time for the same jobs were all making roughly $30K. He storms into the bosses office and demands to know why he's being paid so much less than the other people doing the same job. (also there is an assumption for the sake of the story that all parties come with the same level of experience/education).
The boss looks at him and says, "we gave you exactly what you asked for, why are you mad?"
