Negotiating a retention bonus
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There is a huge amount of pressure on them to reduce head count, I guarantee it. And you are part of the old guard, the culture of a shop that they will want to go away. I've never heard of being on the "absorbed" side of a merger ended up well.
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Well... Then is anyone hiring?
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@lhatsynot It sounds like you work at First Niagara, which was bought out by Key Bank just a week or two ago...
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Well new twist. I talked to my bosses boss and he brought up that he knows I have not gotten an offer worth really considering from the new company and also knows that I have my resume out there (I told him that i did) so he stressed to me how much he wants me to stick around until the merger date (April 29th 2016). He then asked me to bring him any offers that I get and give him a chance to match it. He implied that he will be looking into improving the retention bonus (he's the one that told me it should be $20K). My concern is that he will not be around long after the merger so any salary match he gives will only put me in a worse spot with the new company. Guess we will see what happens.
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Never bring an offer from another company to a current one. That's a poisoned well situation. Even if they match the offer without hesitation - it means you had to threaten them to get the deal and they are not happy (or they would have offered you that much in the first place.) It's time to walk. That's a horrible situation to be in.
Basically he is trying to trick you into burning your bridges by getting good offers, he matches it temporarily or promises to, and you don't take a good, healthy job while getting stuck where you are and either they increase their leverage to keep you or they just resent you and things go badly.
It's a standard best practice to never go down that road. If you feel the need to do this, it means you know that the situation has deteriorated to the point that you should be out as soon as you can be.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Never bring an offer from another company to a current one. That's a poisoned well situation. Even if they match the offer without hesitation - it means you had to threaten them to get the deal and they are not happy (or they would have offered you that much in the first place.) It's time to walk. That's a horrible situation to be in.
Basically he is trying to trick you into burning your bridges by getting good offers, he matches it temporarily or promises to, and you don't take a good, healthy job while getting stuck where you are and either they increase their leverage to keep you or they just resent you and things go badly.
It's a standard best practice to never go down that road. If you feel the need to do this, it means you know that the situation has deteriorated to the point that you should be out as soon as you can be.
One time when I left one employer for another, it was a $30k salary increase. The first employer offered to match it without blinking. I got so pissed that I was seeing spots. I managed to get my temper under control and not burn the bridge behind me.
This was a good thing as I ended up consulting back for them through my new employer.
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@JaredBusch said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Never bring an offer from another company to a current one. That's a poisoned well situation. Even if they match the offer without hesitation - it means you had to threaten them to get the deal and they are not happy (or they would have offered you that much in the first place.) It's time to walk. That's a horrible situation to be in.
Basically he is trying to trick you into burning your bridges by getting good offers, he matches it temporarily or promises to, and you don't take a good, healthy job while getting stuck where you are and either they increase their leverage to keep you or they just resent you and things go badly.
It's a standard best practice to never go down that road. If you feel the need to do this, it means you know that the situation has deteriorated to the point that you should be out as soon as you can be.
One time when I left one employer for another, it was a $30k salary increase. The first employer offered to match it without blinking. I got so pissed that I was seeing spots. I managed to get my temper under control and not burn the bridge behind me.
This was a good thing as I ended up consulting back for them through my new employer.
Maybe that's an idea depending on what offers I get. Contract back with them to help for tons of $$.
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That's a common approach. Don't leave yourself vulnerable. Your relationship with the current job is done, that's just something that seems like you need to accept. But providing contracting back in a "relationless" mode can make a lot of sense. But never give them career leverage, the time for that has past.
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@lhatsynot said:
@JaredBusch said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Never bring an offer from another company to a current one. That's a poisoned well situation. Even if they match the offer without hesitation - it means you had to threaten them to get the deal and they are not happy (or they would have offered you that much in the first place.) It's time to walk. That's a horrible situation to be in.
Basically he is trying to trick you into burning your bridges by getting good offers, he matches it temporarily or promises to, and you don't take a good, healthy job while getting stuck where you are and either they increase their leverage to keep you or they just resent you and things go badly.
It's a standard best practice to never go down that road. If you feel the need to do this, it means you know that the situation has deteriorated to the point that you should be out as soon as you can be.
One time when I left one employer for another, it was a $30k salary increase. The first employer offered to match it without blinking. I got so pissed that I was seeing spots. I managed to get my temper under control and not burn the bridge behind me.
This was a good thing as I ended up consulting back for them through my new employer.
Maybe that's an idea depending on what offers I get. Contract back with them to help for tons of $$.
I went to work for an IT Consulting firm and everything was through them.
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@scottalanmiller said:
That's a common approach. Don't leave yourself vulnerable. Your relationship with the current job is done, that's just something that seems like you need to accept. But providing contracting back in a "relationless" mode can make a lot of sense. But never give them career leverage, the time for that has past.
Very few people find themselves in your position Scott. One where money barely matters and the jobs/careers are knocking your door down.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
That's a common approach. Don't leave yourself vulnerable. Your relationship with the current job is done, that's just something that seems like you need to accept. But providing contracting back in a "relationless" mode can make a lot of sense. But never give them career leverage, the time for that has past.
Very few people find themselves in your position Scott. One where money barely matters and the jobs/careers are knocking your door down.
Scott's fiscal and professional opportunities have nothing to do with this one.
Q: If I was worth and immediate 30k more to that employer, why were they not paying me more?
A: Because they were taking advantage of me for the benefit of the company.
Now, this is what a company should do to an extent. Because it is a for profit entity. but that extent has to be tempered by what it takes to keep employees. Constantly underpaying will not keep you in business.
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@JaredBusch said:
Q: If I was worth and immediate 30k more to that employer, why were they not paying me more?
I have a hard time with this one, My first response would be
A: because you didn't ask for more.Oddly enough I had a situation like this happen. I was hired for a position and at the end of the first year I felt that my growth warranted a $5K raise to put me in the starting range of a Linux admin (this was 13 years ago - haven't really touched Linux since I left there). Lucky for me when I had the sit down with my boss, he had already done the leg work and was offering me something more than the $5K I was going to ask for - win/win!
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But I also heard this story/fable.
A person gets a job at a newspaper, before he is hired he is asked what he feels he should make. For the sake of the story we'll say he says $20K. The newspaper hires him and offered him $20K. Some weeks latter he finds out that the other 4 people they hired around the same time for the same jobs were all making roughly $30K. He storms into the bosses office and demands to know why he's being paid so much less than the other people doing the same job. (also there is an assumption for the sake of the story that all parties come with the same level of experience/education).
The boss looks at him and says, "we gave you exactly what you asked for, why are you mad?"
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@Dashrender said:
@JaredBusch said:
Q: If I was worth and immediate 30k more to that employer, why were they not paying me more?
I have a hard time with this one, My first response would be
A: because you didn't ask for more.And you would be wrong. I had multiple times.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
That's a common approach. Don't leave yourself vulnerable. Your relationship with the current job is done, that's just something that seems like you need to accept. But providing contracting back in a "relationless" mode can make a lot of sense. But never give them career leverage, the time for that has past.
Very few people find themselves in your position Scott. One where money barely matters and the jobs/careers are knocking your door down.
The constant response that everything us "unique to me" doesn't help. The perspective is universal. In fact, if the theory is that I have the best career options, then this would apply the least to me as I'd, by that theory, be harder to threaten. The less control you have over your career, the more important this would be, not the less.
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@JaredBusch said:
@Dashrender said:
@JaredBusch said:
Q: If I was worth and immediate 30k more to that employer, why were they not paying me more?
I have a hard time with this one, My first response would be
A: because you didn't ask for more.And you would be wrong. I had multiple times.
Well in that case the company didn't think you were worth it until you had a better offer to threaten them with.. but you clearly made the right choice.. and they suffered for it... they suffered for their lack of appreciating you and your growth and added value to the company.
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@Dashrender said:
@JaredBusch said:
Q: If I was worth and immediate 30k more to that employer, why were they not paying me more?
I have a hard time with this one, My first response would be
A: because you didn't ask for more.That's a COMPLETELY different case. Asking to negotiate is a constant part of being an employee. Going to another employer, getting an offer, without honestly intending to accept the job but to threaten the current employer with career extortion is a poisoned well to the old employer and a dishonest transaction with the new one.
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@Dashrender said:
Oddly enough I had a situation like this happen. I was hired for a position and at the end of the first year I felt that my growth warranted a $5K raise to put me in the starting range of a Linux admin (this was 13 years ago - haven't really touched Linux since I left there). Lucky for me when I had the sit down with my boss, he had already done the leg work and was offering me something more than the $5K I was going to ask for - win/win!
How is this story like one where you had a conversation, were told you were not worth they money and then got an offer from someone else and instead of taking that job used that offer to extort a higher salary from the existing employer that just claimed you were not worth the money you are now demanding?
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@Dashrender said:
But I also heard this story/fable.
A person gets a job at a newspaper, before he is hired he is asked what he feels he should make. For the sake of the story we'll say he says $20K. The newspaper hires him and offered him $20K. Some weeks latter he finds out that the other 4 people they hired around the same time for the same jobs were all making roughly $30K. He storms into the bosses office and demands to know why he's being paid so much less than the other people doing the same job. (also there is an assumption for the sake of the story that all parties come with the same level of experience/education).
The boss looks at him and says, "we gave you exactly what you asked for, why are you mad?"
Again, nothing like the scenario at hand. You are quoting the exact opposite. He is not getting the money that he has asked for. You keep using a case where they are failing to negotiate and are only dealing with the current job. We are talking about the opposite case - where he is negotiating AND goes to another job.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
That's a common approach. Don't leave yourself vulnerable. Your relationship with the current job is done, that's just something that seems like you need to accept. But providing contracting back in a "relationless" mode can make a lot of sense. But never give them career leverage, the time for that has past.
Very few people find themselves in your position Scott. One where money barely matters and the jobs/careers are knocking your door down.
The constant response that everything us "unique to me" doesn't help. The perspective is universal. In fact, if the theory is that I have the best career options, then this would apply the least to me as I'd, by that theory, be harder to threaten. The less control you have over your career, the more important this would be, not the less.
How are you not impossible to threaten? At least threaten to take your job away, you don't care - You have a personal desire to change jobs every few years, you have have offers coming out of every direction, and you're financially sound so you can survive, I'm assuming for quite some time with no job what so ever if you found a situation where that was required.
Those things make you damned hard to threaten.
