Why Do People Still Text
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@dashrender said in Why Do People Still Text:
It's why What's App is the defacto where you are - I'm guessing all phones come preinstalled with it there, and everyone gets it included in their cell plans.
That should be obviously untrue. Everyone has basically the same phones. While maybe somewhere there is a pre-installed WhatsApp, I've never encountered it in any region and iPhones never have anything preinstalled in any region as they are always the same. And a huge percentage of phones here come from the US and China. In the US no one preloads WhatsApp, in China they don't even allow it.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why Do People Still Text:
@dashrender said in Why Do People Still Text:
So where in the US, the carriers provide SMSing free - in those areas you mention, those carriers offer WhatsApp, etc free.
Most of the US (all carriers that I know) have free WhatsApp (via free data). There are likely exceptions, but I'm not familiar with any. Definitely all with free SMS have free data, too.
Plus if you don't have SMS, you can still use wifi on the device for data services, but not SMS.
Sure WhatsApp might be available in a similar fashion, but the draw back to SMS does not exist - so the friction to move simply isn't there.
You can get SMS on Wifi, if you device supports WiFi calling, I'd be surprised if most don't support this today.
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@dashrender said in Why Do People Still Text:
It's so bad that stores in the US have setup SMS gateways because they can't get customers to install their app for push notices, so they have to use SMS for those - think food pick is ready/ RX is ready, etc.
We don't have that problem here because companies push notices through WhatsApp. You can do this in the US, too, Twilio supports it here.
Making people install unique apps for every vendor is ridiculous. Even in the US half the people I know have their phones full and constantly "can't do that" because they don't know how to clean off their phones from all their weird video games and crap people make them install that they think that they need. Needing to install an app for every restaurant, store, shopping experience, etc. that you deal with is absurd.
Texting isn't a terrible mechanism for that in the US. Doesn't work here, at all. But WhatsApp works for it great here (and anywhere, really.)
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@dashrender said in Why Do People Still Text:
You can get SMS on Wifi, if you device supports WiFi calling, I'd be surprised if most don't support this today.
No, you can't. I have wifi calling, have since it was first released in the US, and SMS isn't supported. You can talk to me crystal clear all day on the phone, no problem. But send an SMS and it won't arrive until I have cell signal.
Maybe some carriers have an SMS over Wifi gateway, but certainly not all do. Wifi calling alone doesn't suggest that SMS will work.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why Do People Still Text:
@dashrender said in Why Do People Still Text:
This board is mainly visited by US persons - so I responded mainly to that group.
That only counts if that is true, you think that majority alone makes it relevant, and if that group is not just American, but also only wants to communicate with other Americans. It's a lot of "ifs" to depend on. None of which are in the context of the post.
And I deal with Americans every day that have these issues, because not all Americans are in America 100% of the time.
And as an American that this affects, it seems weird for you to have this context.
I, like you and a few others on this board are international travelers... and I consider us all outside the norm.
US persons in my exposure don't travel outside the US much, therefore they don't see the SMS issue like those that do.
I'm in your same boat, and therefore have had to find other solutions to my communications needs when traveling, but that's me, not the 90% of US based person's I communicate with.
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@dashrender said in Why Do People Still Text:
I, like you and a few others on this board are international travelers... and I consider us all outside the norm.
US persons in my exposure don't travel outside the US much, therefore they don't see the SMS issue like those that do.
I'm in your same boat, and therefore have had to find other solutions to my communications needs when traveling, but that's me, not the 90% of US based person's I communicate with.But even those that never leave home, know people that do. It's the network effect. Trying to depend solely on US-only solutions in this day and age affects everyone, whether they recognize it or not.
That's one of the biggest problems. Like business customers who buy software X that then forced them to buy Software Y and hardware Z, they rarely realize that the knock on costs were caused by the original thing. How many issues are Americans having day to day caused by SMS but they either 1) stop using SMS but think/claim to still use it or 2) have things not work as they wants but do not realize it is the use of SMS causing the issue?
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@dashrender said in Why Do People Still Text:
@obsolesce said in Why Do People Still Text:
@dashrender said in Why Do People Still Text:
they have a flip phone, so SMS isn't an option, but those people are so few that it doesn't affect the masses.
Huh? Every flip phone and service I've had in the 90s and early 2000s had SMS texting.
sure it does, but those that I know that have flip phones don't text, I know three.. none of them use SMS.
Mostly because they don't have keyboards so ANY form of communications is all but impossible.
People used to learn how to do that. Very few people can text on number pads today.
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@gjacobse said in Why Do People Still Text:
My office is in a poor coverage area for cell, but it's better then internet over cell. Texting works more reliably there.
And you don't have wifi for users?
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@scottalanmiller said in Why Do People Still Text:
@dashrender said in Why Do People Still Text:
While it isn't anywhere near perfect - what really is - SMS's biggest advantage in the US is ubiquity - you have a cellphone? then you have SMS.
That's true today, in the US. But it wasn't true when I first started having these conversations. Texting was gaining use when lots of people didn't have it. And then when people had it, but it wasn't free.
And while you might say everyone has it and it is free, that's for personal devices only, and only for people over a certain age and even then, only with a certain (low bar) of affluence.
But I have lots of young family members who have been using non-SMS services for many years but either don't have or just got SMS service. You are thinking purely of reasonably affluent, American adults and no one else. And only those that don't travel, have family that travels, or have family that is poor or young.
Well, now you're expanding the conversation. Texting, at least to me, is about a near instantaneous desire for communication. I text, I expect a response in 2 mins or less - is that reasonable? who's to say, but in general, most people do.
When I email - I don't ever expect a response. OK that's not true, Of course I do expect a response, but it's amazing how often I don't get one.
And while you and I disagree - a phone call is the most urgent form of communication - I need someone to help me RIGHT BLOODY NOW.
Sure SMS/Email/WhatsApp can all make a digging sound on whatever device receives the notice of a new message, but none of them compare to the ring of the phone with it's continuous sound looking for attention.But if you want to bring kids in here or non affluent persons. How are they checking messages? Once a day offline - Sure SMS is bad for that, I'm in no way saying we shouldn't have more than one way to communicate. Nor am I saying we should KILL SMS - we should! But we aren't going to. At least not today. There isn't something as US universal... and until there is something that is as near to friction free, or SMSing becomes painful, people simply won't move away from it.
Hell - can you even disable it? Not sure if you can or not...
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@dashrender said in Why Do People Still Text:
Supposedly places like Africa flip phones are about all they have, and they do their whole digital lives on those things.
Living in a place on par with most of Africa in income, I know this was true just a few years ago, but I suspect it is not true now. People have almost all moved on from flip phones, they are just so awful. The cost of decent smart phones is so low now. We can buy really good, brand new, name brand phones here for $150. I have one. It's great. I mean, it's not the latest iPhone by any stretch, but it's got 64GB of storage, a fast processor, plays games, looks nice, good screen, etc. You can definitely get a smart phone for $50. A flip phone will be less, obviously, but it's such a key part of your life that even the poorest people invest in them.
And because SMS costs them more than WhatsApp, investing in the phone instead of paying for the messages is smart. I have a friend in Malawi and I know it's all iPhones there, just older models. It's just what makes financial sense.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why Do People Still Text:
@dashrender said in Why Do People Still Text:
Many corporate jobs won't let you install whatever IM solution you're using. or are blocking them to keep malware at bay.
Many won't allow texting, either. I'm not sure what this is in reference to. You are saying you have customers who don't own phones and so this breaks ALL of your other points?
You mention using third party apps on your computer, many companies won't let you install third party apps on your company computer. that's what I'm saying. You mention not using SMS because when I'm on my computer I don't want to worry about having to have my phone nearby - I'm saying if you desire to stay in contact with family, etc while working on a computer - then you'll likely need to keep your phone near you regardless because you often won't be allowed access to those non work communication methods from your work computer.
let's take email again - All the hospitals around here are blocking access to email that is not corporate email - no gmail/yahoo/secure mail, etc... They are trying to prevent crap from entering their computers from email systems they don't control. So if I choose email as my main communication with family, etc, I'd have to keep my phone nearby so I could check it throughout the day.
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@obsolesce said in Why Do People Still Text:
@dashrender said in Why Do People Still Text:
they have a flip phone, so SMS isn't an option, but those people are so few that it doesn't affect the masses.
Huh? Every flip phone and service I've had in the 90s and early 2000s had SMS texting.
That was definitely not my experience. I've had cell service continuously since 1992 and did not get access to texting until more like 2002 and never sent or received a text until I would guess after 2006. But I had email on my phone before that and talked with loads of people because it was common in business then, because of Blackberry devices, to have email on the phones. ANd because texting was costly and rarely available, they had Blackberry messenger instead of texting on the devices. We didn't use it, but it was there.
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@dashrender said in Why Do People Still Text:
You mention using third party apps on your computer, many companies won't let you install third party apps on your company computer. that's what I'm saying.
Right, but SMS requires a third party app in that case, too. So in the case where you can not install anything, both are affected the same. In the case where you can install something you get benefits to not being on SMS.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why Do People Still Text:
@dashrender said in Why Do People Still Text:
It's so bad that stores in the US have setup SMS gateways because they can't get customers to install their app for push notices, so they have to use SMS for those - think food pick is ready/ RX is ready, etc.
We don't have that problem here because companies push notices through WhatsApp. You can do this in the US, too, Twilio supports it here.
Making people install unique apps for every vendor is ridiculous. Even in the US half the people I know have their phones full and constantly "can't do that" because they don't know how to clean off their phones from all their weird video games and crap people make them install that they think that they need. Needing to install an app for every restaurant, store, shopping experience, etc. that you deal with is absurd.
Texting isn't a terrible mechanism for that in the US. Doesn't work here, at all. But WhatsApp works for it great here (and anywhere, really.)
Well - everyone wants their own app, because they want the data.
If there was only one app, only that app owner would have the data.
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@dashrender said in Why Do People Still Text:
You mention not using SMS because when I'm on my computer I don't want to worry about having to have my phone nearby - I'm saying if you desire to stay in contact with family, etc while working on a computer - then you'll likely need to keep your phone near you regardless because you often won't be allowed access to those non work communication methods from your work computer.
This is a "just you" thing. Nearly all people are allowed, while working, to use their computers to talk to people AND have data service on their phones. So their options are broad. Your issues are not super uncommon, but to think it is the norm is not at all the case.
You are probably more likely to not have a computer at work at all, than to not be allowed to go to a website to talk to people. As an employer, blocking that means I'm making people less productive by making them pull out a phone, disconnect from looking at their computer, and type slowly. It is strongly in the interest on any business to have you communicate on the computer so that you are interrupted less and for briefer periods unless they take away your cell phones, too.
The later I have had happen as well. But just because it HAS happened to me doesn't mean it's normal.
But bottom line, anytime SMS works, other things work. But there are loads and loads of times that other things work that SMS does not.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why Do People Still Text:
@dashrender said in Why Do People Still Text:
@obsolesce said in Why Do People Still Text:
@dashrender said in Why Do People Still Text:
they have a flip phone, so SMS isn't an option, but those people are so few that it doesn't affect the masses.
Huh? Every flip phone and service I've had in the 90s and early 2000s had SMS texting.
sure it does, but those that I know that have flip phones don't text, I know three.. none of them use SMS.
Mostly because they don't have keyboards so ANY form of communications is all but impossible.
People used to learn how to do that. Very few people can text on number pads today.
This was my point.
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@dashrender said in Why Do People Still Text:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Do People Still Text:
@dashrender said in Why Do People Still Text:
It's so bad that stores in the US have setup SMS gateways because they can't get customers to install their app for push notices, so they have to use SMS for those - think food pick is ready/ RX is ready, etc.
We don't have that problem here because companies push notices through WhatsApp. You can do this in the US, too, Twilio supports it here.
Making people install unique apps for every vendor is ridiculous. Even in the US half the people I know have their phones full and constantly "can't do that" because they don't know how to clean off their phones from all their weird video games and crap people make them install that they think that they need. Needing to install an app for every restaurant, store, shopping experience, etc. that you deal with is absurd.
Texting isn't a terrible mechanism for that in the US. Doesn't work here, at all. But WhatsApp works for it great here (and anywhere, really.)
Well - everyone wants their own app, because they want the data.
If there was only one app, only that app owner would have the data.
Not true. Here there is "one app" and the app owner has no access to the data. SMS is the only major communications player today where the data goes somewhere other than the parties communicating.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why Do People Still Text:
@dashrender said in Why Do People Still Text:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Do People Still Text:
@dashrender said in Why Do People Still Text:
It's so bad that stores in the US have setup SMS gateways because they can't get customers to install their app for push notices, so they have to use SMS for those - think food pick is ready/ RX is ready, etc.
We don't have that problem here because companies push notices through WhatsApp. You can do this in the US, too, Twilio supports it here.
Making people install unique apps for every vendor is ridiculous. Even in the US half the people I know have their phones full and constantly "can't do that" because they don't know how to clean off their phones from all their weird video games and crap people make them install that they think that they need. Needing to install an app for every restaurant, store, shopping experience, etc. that you deal with is absurd.
Texting isn't a terrible mechanism for that in the US. Doesn't work here, at all. But WhatsApp works for it great here (and anywhere, really.)
Well - everyone wants their own app, because they want the data.
If there was only one app, only that app owner would have the data.
Not true. Here there is "one app" and the app owner has no access to the data. SMS is the only major communications player today where the data goes somewhere other than the parties communicating.
uh - what?
WhatsApp has access to all data flowing through it - the metadata, who's communicating with whom - maybe they don't have the what - but they definitely know the who.
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@dashrender said in Why Do People Still Text:
I wonder where the money comes from to pay for that?
This is easy...
- The money it takes to do this is trivial. You don't need to make much as it is so cheap.
- The entire business model of Facebook and Google is capturing traffic to get people to look at their ads or pay for ads. You can't do that without traffic. The only thing that matters to FB and Google is getting more customers, everything they do is dependent on that and they can't do that if those people leave their services because they can't afford the data.
It shouldn't be "I wonder how they pay for this" it should be "obviously every major internet company would want to do this because it's so clearly how you make services way more profitable."
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@scottalanmiller said in Why Do People Still Text:
I don't believe this at all. People use what is sold to them, not what is easiest. Hence why Windows is so popular. One one can claim it's easy compared to anything else, yet it is super popular. Why? Marketing. Easy to use means nothing to consumers.
Disagree, i find Windows a lot easier than Linux or MAC. But i think that's more to do with what i'm used to :).
Also find getting software to work out of the box easier.
