Datto AP60
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@WrCombs said in Datto AP60:
But I'm running out of time and options here...
Just to be clear, she's running out of time and options. You are unaffected.
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@WrCombs said in Datto AP60:
it was given as a gift from a vendor and she brought it in.
Beware of Greeks bearing gifts.
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@scottalanmiller said in Datto AP60:
@WrCombs said in Datto AP60:
But I'm running out of time and options here...
Just to be clear, she's running out of time and options. You are unaffected.
Sure ; IF that's how you see it.
I see it as MY install; im the Account Manager on this one and taking the lead so im the one stressing. -
@WrCombs said in Datto AP60:
She just told me that we dont have to use it
Probably because you can't. I mean if it works, that's great. If it is a paperweight, she's just wasting time. Stalling before buying what is needed.
We are just speculating as it is equipment designed to force you to pay an MSP, that's its purpose. The chances that you can manage it are very low because of the nature of the thing. Just like as if she had brought in a Meraki. But maybe an MSP is providing her a management console and it all makes sense.
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@WrCombs said in Datto AP60:
Sure ; IF that's how you see it.
The facts are the facts regardless of how anyone sees it.
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@WrCombs said in Datto AP60:
I see it as MY install; im the Account Manager on this one and taking the lead so im the one stressing.
You see it incorrectly. It's your right to have your opinion, but your view point here does not reflect any reality or fact. Under no condition is what you describe in any way your problem. It is 100% on your employer to provide all equipment necessary to do the job. 100% + All.
Nothing you describe here in any way is a factor. It's a very basic fact of employment. Your stress is a problem that should be addressed - either you are voluntarily taking on stress for things that aren't your responsibility and you need to work through that. Or your employer is trying to screw you by making you feel pressure for their mistakes.
You should not feel any stress, nor should you argue with us on this because your viewpoint is factually incorrect and claiming "opinion" when we are talking about a black and white legal issue is inappropriate and a reaction you should work to remove from how you approach work situations. There is no upside to taking on stress for other peoples' responsibility.
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IT staff are famously suckers for management taking advantage of them. Making them feel like it is their responsibility to not just do the job, but to work unpaid hours, feel responsible for management's failings, take the blame for things that they do not control, use their own funds to pay for the company, etc. IT tends to take ownership of things that they do not really own, and predatory managers see dollar signs in their eyes and eagerly take advantages of the situation.
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Yeah - he was cheating - asking to see if someone else had experience and could just point him in the right direction...
I don't agree with this for one second. Asking questions and bouncing ideas off one another is what we're all her for. Or, at least it should be. Besides, how the hell is that cheating? Is ML some kind of online university no one told me about? You may have real experience, and you may think you are adults, but you all still act like 7th graders.
You have no idea what time constraints or work load he is dealing with at this moment. We all know, as well as @WrCombs, how to go figure all of this out on our own. Sometimes that is just stupid. A quick answer or being pointed in the right direction may be just what he needed to resolve this problem quickly and efficiently. If I had the answer, I'd gladly give it to him with any BS attached.
Certainly the shit you all have strewn about today has been a complete waste of time, especially yours.
And the constant insisting that people tell their boss to f*ck themselves every time they need something that is beneath you is no way to make a living.
If all of you pulled that shit as often as you tell other people to, you'd all be out of work. And if you say it ain't so, I'll call BS.
Just think what better lives you'd have if you kept quiet when you didn't have anything useful or positive to say. I honestly don't know where you all find the energy to be such jerks all the time.
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@WrCombs said in Datto AP60:
@JaredBusch said in Datto AP60:
@dbeato said in Datto AP60:
@JaredBusch said in Datto AP60:
@dbeato said in Datto AP60:
To answer the question that @WrCombs was asking. THe first step I need to know if this Access Point was purchased by your boss through a Partner or Directly (Which is rarely the case). The Datto Access Points (AP) are managed through the Cloud Portal of the MSP that usually manages them.
The AP60 is not the latest and should be on AP62 now.
That does not sound promising. Do these units work if they cannot reach the controller?
Without the controller the device cannot be managed as there is no interface to manage standalone.
....
That was not the question
it was a partial answer to the question, though -
If they can't reach the controller they can not be configured to work - So in a sense he did answer the question ; At least from my View ; I dont know about yours.No it is not a partial answer. Because you obviously do not understand how this shit works even after me giving you explicit details on how to do it for a unifi device. The logic behind my post on the unifi device is 100% the same for this device. If you can program this device once and then take it off-line and it still works as previously programmed then it’s a perfectly usable device for your scenario.
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@scottalanmiller said in Datto AP60:
You see it incorrectly. It's your right to have your opinion, but your view point here does not reflect any reality or fact. Under no condition is what you describe in any way your problem.
But the bosses believe (rightfully so) that IT guys are a dime a dozen, so unless you want to find yourself looking for a new employer on someone else's terms, you deliver to the extent you are willing and able, which may or may not be to the same extent as the next guy. But it's what you do......
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@DustinB3403 said in Datto AP60:
How would someone who's never heard of something begin to work on it? Look it up and see what information is available on it.
That might give him some basics. But I bet an hour of Googling (other than this thread) and reading Datto's site would not tell you how it is going to be purchased or provisioned. It's not the kind of equipment where that info is public or obvious. It's easy to guess what the likely options are, but you can't tell which likely option is the real one. It might be like a Cisco device, or a Ubiquiti, or a Meraki, or Netgear ProSafe, or of course its own model.
Asking here is exactly what he's supposed to do. Sure, Googling is good, and he probably did, and found pretty quickly that what he needed to know wasn't available there.
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@scottalanmiller said in Datto AP60:
Asking here is exactly what he's supposed to do. Sure, Googling is good, and he probably did, and found pretty quickly that what he needed to know wasn't available there.
Yep.
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@JasGot said in Datto AP60:
@scottalanmiller said in Datto AP60:
You see it incorrectly. It's your right to have your opinion, but your view point here does not reflect any reality or fact. Under no condition is what you describe in any way your problem.
But the bosses believe (rightfully so) that IT guys are a dime a dozen, so unless you want to find yourself looking for a new employer on someone else's terms, you deliver to the extent you are willing and able, which may or may not be to the same extent as the next guy. But it's what you do......
I don't agree. This is like saying we should not complain when we don't get paid, or our vacations are taken away... because someone else will not stand up for their rights so we should allow our employer to break the law to protect our jobs because someone else won't and what can we do.
Actual IT people are not dime a dozen. IT jobs, however, are. In this case the OP is very new to the field and so that puts him at a disadvantage. But once he starts making it known that his rights are abandoned and his employer can walk all over him and make him pay for their mistakes, they are going to leverage that more and more. Firing him for not providing that gear is illegal, and claiming "right to work" state has nothing to do with breaking the law. You can't try to break the law and fire someone for standing up for their rights, that's federal and no state can take that away. Nor would an employer do that, it makes no sense. The cost to acquire and train someone, in the hopes that they will be desperate and also have the needed equipment at home to provide, would make the whole thing a huge loss. It's not a workable business practice, even if you get away with it.
There is a huge gap between working to the best of your ability within the scope of work, and going ridiculously out of your way to cover for an employer who intentionally isn't delivering for their customer (they've had a month to fix this and even knowing the situation today isn't attempting to fix it) and taking on guilt, stress, and responsibility that isn't his.
This is a tough one, I know it feels scary being an employee. But once we let @WrCombs or any of us feel powerless and that we have to just take whatever shaft our employers give us, we stop advancing and start losing ground... individually and collectively.
I'm trying to show him that he has rights, power, leverage, and value that his employer doesn't respect. We should be supporting him, and empowering him. Not making him feel helpless and worthless. Yes, he's very junior. But way more ambitious and caring about the job he does and the customers that he supports than 95% of the field. Other than being stuck in a horrific physical location, he'd be easily employable anywhere. I've only not hired him in the last month because of his location!
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@scottalanmiller said in Datto AP60::
I've only not hired him in the last month because of his location!
That’s the only reason I did not try to offer him a job three months ago. Although I did discuss it with him.
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The term I'm looking for is "battered wife syndrome." This is how IT often feels. Obviously "battered IT employee" syndrome is less physical, less serious, and dangerous to compare to something so terrible. But the mental effects are the same. Employers know that constantly belittling, berating, emotionally demeaning employees can make them eventually feel like they deserve to be treated badly... because they are worthless or can't do any better. Battered wives feel trapped, helpless, and commonly will eventually believe that they deserve to be treated badly because the abusive spouse convinces them that they are lucky to have them because no one else wants them.
This is exactly how we often act in IT. Employers constantly try to make us feel like we should feel lucky to have a job, that they are doing us a favour by employing us, that any abuse we get is our own fault for not having enough value... but all of this is false. But employers have lots of tools at their disposal from not having to pay us until after the work has been done, to being able to post fake jobs online, to being able to blackball us to other businesses. But just like an abused spouse, IT has value and just needs to stand up for themselves and get support, in places like ML. Yeah, finding a great job can be tough, but staying with an abusive one is worse long term. That doesn't mean walk away, but it also doesn't mean that we should ever believe our employers when they try to make us feel worthless.
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@JaredBusch said in Datto AP60:
@scottalanmiller said in Datto AP60::
I've only not hired him in the last month because of his location!
That’s the only reason I did not try to offer him a job three months ago. Although I did discuss it with him.
I had previously discussed relocation with him and knew that he couldn't take it. Really sucks because it would be a perfect fit if he were local.
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@scottalanmiller said in Datto AP60:
This is exactly how we often act in IT.
Yep, and just because you and I know better, doesn't mean we are going to stop him from proving it to himself. Have you ever seen a boy become a man without passing through adolescences?
It is possible to assist him in this matter and then talk (in a new thread) about why IT people should not tolerate this kind of treatment. Often, it is better to work through the problem at hand first, then circle back around and figure out how to prevent it from happening again.
I think this thread is a good example. Let's (those who have the answers he needs) get him through this WiFi issue, and then talk about how he needs to insist on proper planning earlier in the project next time.
In all my years as a multiple business owner, I've never once seen where beating someone over the head produced a better long term outcome, than taking their hand and walking along side them as you provide sound advice and direction. Even if they walk slower than you.
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@JasGot said in Datto AP60:
I think this thread is a good example. Let's (those who have the answers he needs) get him through this WiFi issue, and then talk about how he needs to insist on proper planning earlier in the project next time.
That's one approach. And it looks like it is working out here because it appears that the boss has shown that they were unable to, even when trying, acquire what was needed. Of course, we need to ask "why is the boss not the one bringing in their own gear if that is what is required?" The boss is getting freebies from vendors, and still doesn't have the tools for the job.
If this was a fast food situation, this would be like the store being out of hamburger buns and the boss having buns at home but refusing to bring in their own, but leaning on an employee to make them feel that their own groceries have to be brought in to keep the place making food as quickly as customers' want. Sounds crazy (and it is much more crazy given that those are consumable items.) But you get the point. Every person above @WrCombs in the command chain isn't willing to do what is needed from his boss up to the owner (that might be one person or one hundred, I have no idea.)
If we overlook this situation we run into a couple of issues. First is that precedence is set to the company - that they can expect the ridiculous from him that they wouldn't be willing to do themselves is established and they know it. Second that in his mind it starts the trend of thinking of his own personal resources as things that he "owes" to the company. Three that he feels that he doesn't have rights and value as an individual or professional. Sure, we can explain later that those things are false, but they are already in motion. The more we let it happen and plan to fix it later, the more ingrained it is, the more momentum in that direction.
Making technical mistakes is something that you learn from. You fall, you get back up. Being abused is not. It's not something that makes you stronger. It's something that always makes it harder for you, even after you've generally recovered. Some things, like broken bones, heal stronger than before. Mental abuse is not like that. It's more like a sprain. Each time you sprain, the harder it gets to heal and the more likely you are to get sprained again.
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@WrCombs said in Datto AP60:
@scottalanmiller said in Datto AP60:
@WrCombs said in Datto AP60:
But I'm running out of time and options here...
Just to be clear, she's running out of time and options. You are unaffected.
Sure ; IF that's how you see it.
I see it as MY install; im the Account Manager on this one and taking the lead so im the one stressing.This, this is the hardest aspect of this job that I've had to get over. Sure, it's your project, but you don't have a company CC - you don't have ordering rights/purchasing rights (Or do you?)
No job should ever expect you to perform a job that they don't give you the tools for, unless the job stated you had to provide such tools as part of the hiring process.
For example - if you having cell phone they can call you on is required for the job - either a) they provide it/pay for it - or B) tell you when you take the job of this requirement so you can decide if that is an acceptable part of the job requirements.
This is no different than wearing clothes to work - They tell you what type of clothes you must wear, but generally don't provide you those clothes, or even pay you so you can acquire them (well, not directly).
But, I assume they did say - to get this job you need to have reliable transportation, and we (the company) will reimburse you for driving your own vehicle based on mileage.
It's no different in your AP situation. You were told pre-hire that you had to provide networking equipment, so why should you? You still have 3 weeks before this install - assuming you can't get this 'free' AP working by noon - I'd go to her and say - Hey, I can't get this to work, I need to order an $90 UAP so I can pre-stage these tablets for this client - oh, and we'll have it here for the next install as well, etc.
If she says no - then say - OK, no problem, but I'll need a few more hours onsite at the client site to setup the tablets, once I get their WIFI network setup.
Frankly - from a time spent POV, there shouldn't really be much of a difference, it will likely take you the same amount of time - just in one case the client is watching you, and in the other, they are not.
I assume this project was sold as a flat rate project - so it's not like there could be more or less billing... -
@JasGot said in Datto AP60:
Yeah - he was cheating - asking to see if someone else had experience and could just point him in the right direction...
I don't agree with this for one second. Asking questions and bouncing ideas off one another is what we're all her for. Or, at least it should be. Besides, how the hell is that cheating? Is ML some kind of online university no one told me about? You may have real experience, and you may think you are adults, but you all still act like 7th graders.
You have no idea what time constraints or work load he is dealing with at this moment. We all know, as well as @WrCombs, how to go figure all of this out on our own. Sometimes that is just stupid. A quick answer or being pointed in the right direction may be just what he needed to resolve this problem quickly and efficiently. If I had the answer, I'd gladly give it to him with any BS attached.
Certainly the shit you all have strewn about today has been a complete waste of time, especially yours.
And the constant insisting that people tell their boss to f*ck themselves every time they need something that is beneath you is no way to make a living.
If all of you pulled that shit as often as you tell other people to, you'd all be out of work. And if you say it ain't so, I'll call BS.
Just think what better lives you'd have if you kept quiet when you didn't have anything useful or positive to say. I honestly don't know where you all find the energy to be such jerks all the time.
that was my quote - and I'll take the hit. it might have been a bit harsh - but using the piece of equipment was a thing put forth by his boss (now eventually @WrCombs told us the boss said he could take or leave this AP) so that pretty much means it's on him to learn what is needed to make it work. I don't mind the asking of the question - as long as it's followed up by his own Googling - as I quickly did upon seeing his post and quickly found out that it's a cloud controller based setup - and even posted as much comparing it to Meraki. Now @WrCombs lack of experience, exposure means he might not be familiar with Meraki, so he might not have been able to draw the same conclusion - and might have simply been lost as to what a cloud controller even was - at which point I pickup the phone and call the sales number on the website, while at the same time posting - OK it says it's a cloud controller based thing - what is that? (oh and I'm calling sales to get some info).
