Any Camera People Here?
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@MarigabyFrias and I both use Panasonic Lumix for our SLR form factor mirrorless cameras. High quality at a very reasonable price. Works great. It's not my Nikon, but it is also half the price.
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The performance of a camera sensor depends on it's size. Larger sensor means better images but it also means larger lenses and a heavier camera. That's the law of physics.
If you are satisfied with the images from your smartphone, you are basically satisfied with the smallest sensors and hence the lowest quality. You are not really the target group for a more advanced camera.
You have a few different classes of cameras.
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Small sensor point-and-shoot
These cameras have literally disappeared from the market and is now what a smartphone is used for. A more capable camera is bigger and also more advanced. A lot more advanced than a smartphone. -
Small Sensor
The step up from the smartphone is a small sensor fixed lens camera. Usually comes with a superzoom that covers everything from a wide to a very long focal length. -
Crop sensor
Next step up is large sensor cameras that has a significantly larger sensor compared to a smartphone but not as big as an analog 35mm film camera. Sensor sizes are for instance APS (also called crop sensor, DX) and M43. These usually have interchangeable lenses. -
Full frame sensor
Next step up from that are full frame cameras which are the same size as 35mm SLRs, 24x36mm.
Also with interchangeable lenses. -
Medium format sensor
And then you have medium format cameras that are even bigger and are for high end professional work.
Interchangeable is a must here.
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But you can also go the other way and say you want a camera to use as a photographer. Not maybe for the optical performance but for the photographic experience.
Then you might want "basic" features such as interchangeable lenses, manual focus, a viewfinder, manual exposure - things that point-and-shoot cameras/smartphones don't provide.
A $500 budget is not a lot but will put you in the lower range of crop sensor cameras.
Here you can look at some cameras and how they differ in size.
Check especially out how they look from above as that will reveal the depth differences.
https://camerasize.com/compare/ -
@Pete-S said in Any Camera People Here?:
A $500 budget is not a lot but will put you in the lower range of crop sensor cameras.
If you can just do away with the interchangeable lens, you can get pretty good for closer to $400.
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Also, lens mounts are a huge weight to add to a camera. Built in lenses weigh a lot less by necessity.
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@scottalanmiller said in Any Camera People Here?:
Also, lens mounts are a huge weight to add to a camera. Built in lenses weigh a lot less by necessity.
Not really. If you disassembled a camera you'll notice that the lens mount weighs almost nothing.
But build-in-lenses are usually put on smaller sensors and that will make the optics a lot smaller and lighter.
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@Pete-S said in Any Camera People Here?:
@scottalanmiller said in Any Camera People Here?:
Also, lens mounts are a huge weight to add to a camera. Built in lenses weigh a lot less by necessity.
Not really. If you disassembled a camera you'll notice that the lens mount weighs almost nothing.
But build-in-lenses are usually put on smaller sensors and that will make the optics a lot smaller and lighter.
It also used to be that interchangeable where rectilinear and only had small aberrations which required the optical design to use more lens elements and as such become heavier and more expensive, while built-in lenses could take shortcuts and be designed with fewer lens elements but then required image processing in the camera to minimize any flaws in the design. Now that technique is used in interchangeable lenses as well to make for smaller and lighter cameras.
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@Pete-S said in Any Camera People Here?:
@Pete-S said in Any Camera People Here?:
@scottalanmiller said in Any Camera People Here?:
Also, lens mounts are a huge weight to add to a camera. Built in lenses weigh a lot less by necessity.
Not really. If you disassembled a camera you'll notice that the lens mount weighs almost nothing.
But build-in-lenses are usually put on smaller sensors and that will make the optics a lot smaller and lighter.
It also used to be that interchangeable where rectilinear and only had small aberrations which required the optical design to use more lens elements and as such become heavier and more expensive, while built-in lenses could take shortcuts and be designed with fewer lens elements but then required image processing in the camera to minimize any flaws in the design. Now that technique is used in interchangeable lenses as well to make for smaller and lighter cameras.
Thanks for the input @Pete-S I greatly appreciate the time spent replying.
I do have an old Pentax SLR camera with 2 lenses, in that I am lucky as I can see and touch the size and weight of the camera.
I think the DSLR is a better fit for me. I find smaller objects harder to hold and struggle more often than not while trying to maintain a grip on the device, there's a non photographic requirement right there.
I don't mind swapping lenses, it's part of the enjoyment of the process I reckon.
My requirements have changed since my initial post, as I have read & learnt more.
I'm now looking for something that is easy to use as a beginner, but something that I won't grow out of too quickly.
I've started looking at the Nikon D5600 & Canon 250D.
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@siringo said in Any Camera People Here?:
@Pete-S said in Any Camera People Here?:
@Pete-S said in Any Camera People Here?:
@scottalanmiller said in Any Camera People Here?:
Also, lens mounts are a huge weight to add to a camera. Built in lenses weigh a lot less by necessity.
Not really. If you disassembled a camera you'll notice that the lens mount weighs almost nothing.
But build-in-lenses are usually put on smaller sensors and that will make the optics a lot smaller and lighter.
It also used to be that interchangeable where rectilinear and only had small aberrations which required the optical design to use more lens elements and as such become heavier and more expensive, while built-in lenses could take shortcuts and be designed with fewer lens elements but then required image processing in the camera to minimize any flaws in the design. Now that technique is used in interchangeable lenses as well to make for smaller and lighter cameras.
Thanks for the input @Pete-S I greatly appreciate the time spent replying.
I do have an old Pentax SLR camera with 2 lenses, in that I am lucky as I can see and touch the size and weight of the camera.
I think the DSLR is a better fit for me. I find smaller objects harder to hold and struggle more often than not while trying to maintain a grip on the device, there's a non photographic requirement right there.
I don't mind swapping lenses, it's part of the enjoyment of the process I reckon.
My requirements have changed since my initial post, as I have read & learnt more.
I'm now looking for something that is easy to use as a beginner, but something that I won't grow out of too quickly.
I've started looking at the Nikon D5600 & Canon 250D.
Nikon versus Canon is like Ford versus Chevy or Coke versus Pepsi.
I personally think Nikon is easier to use. They also have better sensor technology and have had for quite some time now. So you can shoot in lower light.Picking a camera is difficult.
I would step up to the D7000-series of dSLRs. They are more advanced but actually easier to use because they have more dedicated buttons for functions you need. Also easier to hold and have a top LCD which makes it easier to see your most used settings. It still has an all-automatic point-and-shoot mode, like the lower end cameras (D3000 series and D5000 series).
If budget is any consideration, get a used one. I have friends who could easily afford but never buy new cameras, just older models. Image quality has plateaued and a used D7200 for instance is as good as the newer D7500. It has wifi as well so you can transfer images easily.
PS. Nikon has a huge range of lenses you can use, new and old classic lenses. The D7200 can use almost all of them, actually more than the D7500 can. So you have 40 years of lens production to choose from.
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@Pete-S said in Any Camera People Here?:
@siringo said in Any Camera People Here?:
@Pete-S said in Any Camera People Here?:
@Pete-S said in Any Camera People Here?:
@scottalanmiller said in Any Camera People Here?:
Also, lens mounts are a huge weight to add to a camera. Built in lenses weigh a lot less by necessity.
Not really. If you disassembled a camera you'll notice that the lens mount weighs almost nothing.
But build-in-lenses are usually put on smaller sensors and that will make the optics a lot smaller and lighter.
It also used to be that interchangeable where rectilinear and only had small aberrations which required the optical design to use more lens elements and as such become heavier and more expensive, while built-in lenses could take shortcuts and be designed with fewer lens elements but then required image processing in the camera to minimize any flaws in the design. Now that technique is used in interchangeable lenses as well to make for smaller and lighter cameras.
Thanks for the input @Pete-S I greatly appreciate the time spent replying.
I do have an old Pentax SLR camera with 2 lenses, in that I am lucky as I can see and touch the size and weight of the camera.
I think the DSLR is a better fit for me. I find smaller objects harder to hold and struggle more often than not while trying to maintain a grip on the device, there's a non photographic requirement right there.
I don't mind swapping lenses, it's part of the enjoyment of the process I reckon.
My requirements have changed since my initial post, as I have read & learnt more.
I'm now looking for something that is easy to use as a beginner, but something that I won't grow out of too quickly.
I've started looking at the Nikon D5600 & Canon 250D.
Nikon versus Canon is like Ford versus Chevy or Coke versus Pepsi.
I personally think Nikon is easier to use. They also have better sensor technology and have had for quite some time now. So you can shoot in lower light.Picking a camera is difficult.
I would step up to the D7000-series of dSLRs. They are more advanced but actually easier to use because they have more dedicated buttons for functions you need. Also easier to hold and have a top LCD which makes it easier to see your most used settings. It still has an all-automatic point-and-shoot mode, like the lower end cameras (D3000 series and D5000 series).
If budget is any consideration, get a used one. I have friends who could easily afford but never buy new cameras, just older models. Image quality has plateaued and a used D7200 for instance is as good as the newer D7500. It has wifi as well so you can transfer images easily.
PS. Nikon has a huge range of lenses you can use, new and old classic lenses. The D7200 can use almost all of them, actually more than the D7500 can. So you have 40 years of lens production to choose from.
Thanks very much once again @Pete-S . I've learnt more today and am now looking at mirrorless cameras, in particular the Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark III .
I've also learnt about sensor size and am trying to work out if the Micro 4/3rds sensor in the Olympus will be OK for me???
The Olympus has in camera stabilization which is a huge bonus.
Not sure what to do about lenses? I have 2 Sigma lenses off my old Pentax SLR and am trying to find out f I can get an adaptor so I can use them on the Olympus???
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@siringo said in Any Camera People Here?:
@Obsolesce said in Any Camera People Here?:
It comes down to specifically what you require... here's a pretty detailed comparison.
https://www.apotelyt.com/compare-camera/nikon-d3500-vs-sony-a6000
I'm not the camera person, so unfortunately I don't know what all factors went into the decision. But I know she was 100% happy with it.
Thanks @Obsolesce for the info and link, much appreciated. I'm starting to lean towards the Nikon D3500, if for no other reason than it can take alot of photos before it needs a recharge. This is useful as I go away into the bush alot away from mains power.
But this is a huge market, so I won't be surprised if I change my mind.
I have an older D3100 and I really like it. Doesn't have Bluetooth, but they're good cameras. IMO your ability to frame the shot and your lighting are the biggest factors. You can still take really good pictures with a normal meh camera, and really bad pictures with a $6000 camera. My flash diffuser that I built makes a big difference in how pictures look, it's like night and day with it and without it.
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@siringo said in Any Camera People Here?:
@Pete-S said in Any Camera People Here?:
@siringo said in Any Camera People Here?:
@Pete-S said in Any Camera People Here?:
@Pete-S said in Any Camera People Here?:
@scottalanmiller said in Any Camera People Here?:
Also, lens mounts are a huge weight to add to a camera. Built in lenses weigh a lot less by necessity.
Not really. If you disassembled a camera you'll notice that the lens mount weighs almost nothing.
But build-in-lenses are usually put on smaller sensors and that will make the optics a lot smaller and lighter.
It also used to be that interchangeable where rectilinear and only had small aberrations which required the optical design to use more lens elements and as such become heavier and more expensive, while built-in lenses could take shortcuts and be designed with fewer lens elements but then required image processing in the camera to minimize any flaws in the design. Now that technique is used in interchangeable lenses as well to make for smaller and lighter cameras.
Thanks for the input @Pete-S I greatly appreciate the time spent replying.
I do have an old Pentax SLR camera with 2 lenses, in that I am lucky as I can see and touch the size and weight of the camera.
I think the DSLR is a better fit for me. I find smaller objects harder to hold and struggle more often than not while trying to maintain a grip on the device, there's a non photographic requirement right there.
I don't mind swapping lenses, it's part of the enjoyment of the process I reckon.
My requirements have changed since my initial post, as I have read & learnt more.
I'm now looking for something that is easy to use as a beginner, but something that I won't grow out of too quickly.
I've started looking at the Nikon D5600 & Canon 250D.
Nikon versus Canon is like Ford versus Chevy or Coke versus Pepsi.
I personally think Nikon is easier to use. They also have better sensor technology and have had for quite some time now. So you can shoot in lower light.Picking a camera is difficult.
I would step up to the D7000-series of dSLRs. They are more advanced but actually easier to use because they have more dedicated buttons for functions you need. Also easier to hold and have a top LCD which makes it easier to see your most used settings. It still has an all-automatic point-and-shoot mode, like the lower end cameras (D3000 series and D5000 series).
If budget is any consideration, get a used one. I have friends who could easily afford but never buy new cameras, just older models. Image quality has plateaued and a used D7200 for instance is as good as the newer D7500. It has wifi as well so you can transfer images easily.
PS. Nikon has a huge range of lenses you can use, new and old classic lenses. The D7200 can use almost all of them, actually more than the D7500 can. So you have 40 years of lens production to choose from.
Thanks very much once again @Pete-S . I've learnt more today and am now looking at mirrorless cameras, in particular the Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark III .
I've also learnt about sensor size and am trying to work out if the Micro 4/3rds sensor in the Olympus will be OK for me???
The Olympus has in camera stabilization which is a huge bonus.
Not sure what to do about lenses? I have 2 Sigma lenses off my old Pentax SLR and am trying to find out f I can get an adaptor so I can use them on the Olympus???
As I said all these cameras have better image quality than a smartphone. So yes, you will be satisfied in that respect.
M43 sensor is slightly smaller than the DX sensor in the Nikon/Canon you looked at.
The problem with your old lenses are that they where made for a film camera. With a smaller sensor the effective focal length will be different. Which basically means that when you move the same lenses from your film camera to the M43 camera the image will be zoomed in 2x. Good if you are trying to photograph something far away and want it to look bigger but not so good if you are trying to take family photos as you can't fit as many people into the frame. So your old lenses will not behave the same way as they did on the film camera.
A lot of cameras have image stabilization nowadays. The other big M43 manufacturer is Panasonic. They make very good cameras and have a lot of different models. The closest thing to the OM-D MKIII is probably the Panasonic G80/G85. You should consider that as well.
The M43 lens mount has a short register distance. Which basically means that the distance from the lens to the sensor is very short. It doesn't make much difference in real life except that it means that a lot of lenses from other cameras will mount on the M43 cameras with a simple non-optical adapter.
That's why it easy to mount Pentax lenses, Nikon lenses, Canon lenses etc on the M43 cameras (with the right adapter).
Different M43 lenses from different manufacturers also fit all M3 cameras so you can put a Panasonic lens on an Olympus camera body and vice versa.
My personal opinion as that while the M43 cameras have a lot of functions they don't have all the decades of experience in fine tuning to use of the cameras such as Nikon has. Often some buttons are a bit too small or a bit too far away and it's a little cumbersome getting to some functions which makes them less smooth and slower to use.
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@stacksofplates said in Any Camera People Here?:
@siringo said in Any Camera People Here?:
@Obsolesce said in Any Camera People Here?:
It comes down to specifically what you require... here's a pretty detailed comparison.
https://www.apotelyt.com/compare-camera/nikon-d3500-vs-sony-a6000
I'm not the camera person, so unfortunately I don't know what all factors went into the decision. But I know she was 100% happy with it.
Thanks @Obsolesce for the info and link, much appreciated. I'm starting to lean towards the Nikon D3500, if for no other reason than it can take alot of photos before it needs a recharge. This is useful as I go away into the bush alot away from mains power.
But this is a huge market, so I won't be surprised if I change my mind.
I have an older D3100 and I really like it. Doesn't have Bluetooth, but they're good cameras. IMO your ability to frame the shot and your lighting are the biggest factors. You can still take really good pictures with a normal meh camera, and really bad pictures with a $6000 camera. My flash diffuser that I built makes a big difference in how pictures look, it's like night and day with it and without it.
Back in the 35mm film days most of the difference between cameras where in how you used them and the speed. With the same lens they produced the same quality. That is true today as well - more or less.
With Nikon the higher end cameras are faster to use, has a more ergonomic layout and can use a larger number of lenses. They often focus faster and in lower light and are more customizable. But the image quality will be more or less the same.
If you are using the camera mostly as a point-and-shoot, it's a waste to buy a more advanced camera than you need. It will just be heavier and more expensive without much of an actual advantage.
If you however are an enthusiast or perhaps even a part-time pro, a little more advanced camera will be worth the money. Personally I think that breaking point is the D7000 series on Nikon. So if you really want to learn how to photograph I suggest D7000 series or higher. Otherwise you will be disappointed and upgrade.
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IMO, typical photo use by most people... phone cameras today are totally sufficient, unless you don't have a modern phone with a good camera. Snapseed is pretty good.
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Had a look at the Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark III yesterday & found it uncomfortable to hold & too small in my hands. Also I couldn't read the viewfinder (although that may be able to be changed bi increasing text size??).
Had a look at a Canon DSLR & Nikon D5600, both were much better to hold. The Nikon was very comfortable.
Also looked at a Canon equivalent to the Olympus. Viewfinder was much easier to read & also better to hold.
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@siringo said in Any Camera People Here?:
Had a look at the Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark III yesterday & found it uncomfortable to hold & too small in my hands. Also I couldn't read the viewfinder (although that may be able to be changed bi increasing text size??).
Had a look at a Canon DSLR & Nikon D5600, both were much better to hold. The Nikon was very comfortable.
Also looked at a Canon equivalent to the Olympus. Viewfinder was much easier to read & also better to hold.
It might be obvious to you but it's easy to forget to adjust the diopter on the viewfinder. If it's slightly off compared to your vision, you'll have problems reading the viewfinder text and symbols.
Then the viewfinder differs in magnification between cameras. Something like 0.7x is considered good (in 35mm equivalent).
And also in eyepoint, which is the maximum distance from the eye to the viewfinder where you still can see the entire viewfinder. It's important for eyeglass wearers especially. Something around 20mm is considered good, that's about 3/4".
With an electric viewfinder you also have the resolution and refresh rate to consider and for optical viewfinders it's the design of the focusing screen and it's brightness.
PS. This is the specs for the
Nikon D5600
Viewfinder Magnification: 0.82x (Approx.)
Viewfinder Eyepoint: 17 mm (-1.0 m¯¹)Olympus OM-D MKIII
Viewfinder Magnification: Approx.1.23x (=0.60x in 35mm equiv.)
Eye Point: Approx. 19.2mmSo Olympus camera has a slightly better eyepoint but a significantly smaller viewfinder.
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@siringo said in Any Camera People Here?:
Had a look at the Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark III yesterday & found it uncomfortable to hold & too small in my hands. Also I couldn't read the viewfinder (although that may be able to be changed bi increasing text size??).
Had a look at a Canon DSLR & Nikon D5600, both were much better to hold. The Nikon was very comfortable.
Also looked at a Canon equivalent to the Olympus. Viewfinder was much easier to read & also better to hold.
It's good that you checked them out in real life.
Be weary of what lenses will fit the cameras though. It's nice when lenses have a much longer lifespan than the camera body.
Even if you decide to sell you camera down the line it's often the lenses that will be valuable long after the camera. Especially if you have bought expensive lenses.Nikon and Canon dSLRs are good in this regard but their mirrorless versions not so much.
So if you are picking between two cameras that feels equally good, consider what lenses they use and if those have been around and are popular.
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I have a Nikon D3500 that I bought in 2009ish, but I mostly use it in point and shoot mode.
Back in the early 90's I was really looking into photography before I fell into IT. But I even let it fall away as a hobby.
I like the Nikon over the Canon simply because I like the feel of them, better to hold.
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@JaredBusch said in Any Camera People Here?:
I like the Nikon over the Canon simply because I like the feel of them, better to hold.
I started off as a Canon guy in the 1980s, switch to Nikon around 1992 when I went pro. Both are great, but I've just always preferred the Nikon. I use a D90 now and it remains just fantastic. Totally replacing with another Nikon when the time comes as my primary workhorse.
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Traditionally, like 1960-1980s, Canon was favoured by scenic photographers, and Nikon by journalists.
