If Not WordPress, What's the Alternative



  • A bit of mention of "problems" (none that I see as problems, but whatever) with WordPress here. It's mentioned that a CMS in this day and age should enforce where content goes. I know of no product that does this. But I hardly know the entire CMS landscape. Given the reasons that WordPress is chosen - flexibility, performance, deployability, live CMS capabilities (no static sites here), cost (but we can ignore that for the moment), etc. what out there competes with it but doesn't bring all of the problems that a powerful engine would seemingly require. Drupla, Joomla, CMS Made Simple, Ghost, and similar can do what WP can do, that's not the question. They have the same complexity issues - plugins, themes, templates, third party add ons, the ability to screw them up. I can't even fathom how a CMS could avoid those things and remain useful.

    But given that apparently WP is seen as lacking in simplicity, what product is the alternative to even consider that changes those factors?



  • @scottalanmiller thatโ€™s an interesting question. Wordpress so far has been the less complex CMS of them all. It is easy to maintain, protect and do content updates. I have had experience with Drupal and Joomla but they are way too complex.



  • @dbeato said in If Not WordPress, What's the Alternative:

    @scottalanmiller thatโ€™s an interesting question. Wordpress so far has been the less complex CMS of them all. It is easy to maintain, protect and do content updates. I have had experience with Drupal and Joomla but they are way too complex.

    That was my impression as well. I've always felt that WP was the "easy, simple" CMS compared to the primary alternatives. I was super confused to hear it called complex and unmaintainable, it's always so easy. Something simpler would be awesome, but I have no idea how you make an extensible, powerful CMS while getting something simple.



  • @scottalanmiller Wow, I am not sure who you heard it from but they might be mistaken or are hosting the site on a command line type of server and want to have all GUI...



  • @scottalanmiller

    WP autoupdates man by itself, it is super easy and simple.

    However I think many folks are moving to self documenting systems or without DB, I never used them but heard of them.

    You just have to use WP with like 1-5 plugins, no need for 100, and it will be perfect.



  • Well if the site is not complex then something like Grav these days is much better IMHO. It a flat file no DB involved. No need for any plugin although there are quite a few. I've been trying to convert a site I look after for charity over to it. If not for me sucking at graphics & color stuff.

    Couldn't find a reasonable nice template for it. Which brings it back t everyone goes for WP because everyone 'design' for it and so many resources out there even through it is not that good / secure bit of software.

    The endless plugin security updates is a headache. The less plugin the better!



  • @360col said in If Not WordPress, What's the Alternative:

    Couldn't find a reasonable nice template for it. Which brings it back t everyone goes for WP because everyone 'design' for it and so many resources out there even through it is not that good / secure bit of software.

    How is it not secure? WP is continually patched every time there is an issue.

    You use long passwords and a single basic security plugin and you will never have issues.

    All big issues I see are always caused by shit ass plugins. That has nothing to do with WP being insecure.



  • @360col said in If Not WordPress, What's the Alternative:

    even through it is not that good / secure bit of software.

    What's not good or secure about it? Maybe 12+ years ago, no idea, but for the last long time, it's been pretty secure and for all it does and all of the exposure that it gets, it's amazing how well it works and how little it gets hacked, especially considering the ways we hear of people mistreating it.



  • @360col said in If Not WordPress, What's the Alternative:

    Well if the site is not complex then something like Grav these days is much better IMHO

    I've been eyeing Grav for a while. It does look very interesting. ANy guesses as to pros and cons vs. WordPress? Beyond the obvious flat file vs database differences...



  • @scottalanmiller said in If Not WordPress, What's the Alternative:

    @360col said in If Not WordPress, What's the Alternative:

    even through it is not that good / secure bit of software.

    What's not good or secure about it? Maybe 12+ years ago, no idea, but for the last long time, it's been pretty secure and for all it does and all of the exposure that it gets, it's amazing how well it works and how little it gets hacked, especially considering the ways we hear of people mistreating it.

    I would say that WP is one of the, if not the, most secure CMS out there of it's kind.

    It's open source, and used by millions... there are so many eyes on it it's crazy. I don't think it gets any better security wise. Like others have said, it's not WP at fault... it's people who run out of date WP and/or plugin versions, or shitty plugins, or purposely screw it up like some people we've seen.



  • I gave @scottalanmiller access to my admin account for my Grav demo in the hopes that he will do a write-up comparing WP to Grav ๐Ÿ˜ƒ



  • @wirestyle22 said in If Not WordPress, What's the Alternative:

    I gave @scottalanmiller access to my admin account for my Grav demo in the hopes that he will do a write-up comparing WP to Grav ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

    And suddenly you start seeing Hostadillo ads on your website.



  • @dafyre said in If Not WordPress, What's the Alternative:

    @wirestyle22 said in If Not WordPress, What's the Alternative:

    I gave @scottalanmiller access to my admin account for my Grav demo in the hopes that he will do a write-up comparing WP to Grav ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

    And suddenly you start seeing Hostadillo ads on your website.

    Tee hee... Grav Hosting... Now from Hostadillo!



  • It's not about which CMS is "best". It's about picking the right tool for the job.

    One gets annoyed when WP is offered for absolutely every job under the sun.
    Want to make the next best Youtube with a mix of Twitter and Instagram! Probably WP is good.
    Want to make the next best API for micro-services? I guess WP is the best.
    Want some new emulation mini controllers for space shuttles? Probably a WP plugin for that.

    The WP apostles always assume it is best for everything because "powerful".

    At least decide if you want the overhead of a CMS. Do you need a database at all? Would a flat site work best and therefore a site generator? Is it a highly custom design from scratch or does your client demand a pretty page builder with drag-n-drop buttons?
    Is the developer in control of the content and site or does a non-tech end user need to edit everything? Can they be exposed to HTML or a WYSIWYG or will they muck everything up?
    Is the content highly structured or is every page a mix of many content pieces?
    Is this actually a "blog" and needs bloggy features or are these more like landing pages?
    Does the content or development features need to be source controlled?
    What kind of scale do you need? Is there a focus on multi-national issues?
    How important is the mobile experience, AMP, accessibility? Will the site offer APIs for various things?

    Can every single concern be shoved into WP in some way? Perhaps, but why? Why do the same people who love how "powerful" it is because there are so many plugins, also say you shouldn't install any plugins, maybe one, or you're doing it wrong?

    It's possible people don't like hooks and filters and PHP functions to output HTML, but would instead rather like to build out templates using Twig or Smarty or some other standard method. Or maybe they need a modern architecture with a site built on Node and React, or Vue.
    Maybe they would like to use a Composer-based stack to manage the site rather than uploading files in FTP.
    Maybe they need to run on a server with only command line access or some such, rather than a commodity $3.99/month cPanel host.

    I, for one, am excited to see how the industry is going to evolve the CMS market, as long as people are open to change and not just cling on to their ancient tech.



  • @scottalanmiller said in If Not WordPress, What's the Alternative:

    @360col said in If Not WordPress, What's the Alternative:

    Well if the site is not complex then something like Grav these days is much better IMHO

    I've been eyeing Grav for a while. It does look very interesting. ANy guesses as to pros and cons vs. WordPress? Beyond the obvious flat file vs database differences...

    Ever since discovering Wiki.js, I like the idea of using git for versioning backups and deployments.
    https://github.com/trilbymedia/grav-plugin-git-sync



  • @black3dynamite said in If Not WordPress, What's the Alternative:

    @scottalanmiller said in If Not WordPress, What's the Alternative:

    @360col said in If Not WordPress, What's the Alternative:

    Well if the site is not complex then something like Grav these days is much better IMHO

    I've been eyeing Grav for a while. It does look very interesting. ANy guesses as to pros and cons vs. WordPress? Beyond the obvious flat file vs database differences...

    Ever since discovering Wiki.js, I like the idea of using git for versioning backups and deployments.
    https://github.com/trilbymedia/grav-plugin-git-sync

    Yeah, that is very nice.



  • @guyinpv said in If Not WordPress, What's the Alternative:

    Maybe they need to run on a server with only command line access or some such, rather than a commodity $3.99/month cPanel host.

    Isn't this the same for all of the possible products, though?



  • @guyinpv said in If Not WordPress, What's the Alternative:

    Can every single concern be shoved into WP in some way?

    I get what you are trying to say, but I think you missed the point of the post. The post when "when you are looking for the features for which WP is intended", what are the reasonable alternatives.

    The cases you are giving are for different use cases, which obviously no one has thought WP was a good idea.

    It's a bit like asking "When I need a four seater car, what is a good alternative to a Nissan Sentra", but then the response is "it makes a crappy boat." Sure, but we know that a car makes a crappy boat, and we know that cars could be put on a ferry, but that's not really the question.



  • @guyinpv said in If Not WordPress, What's the Alternative:

    The WP apostles always assume it is best for everything because "powerful".

    I think that this might answer where we are all confused. You don't want people saying WP is good for things WP isn't meant for. Everyone would agree, there is no one here suggesting anything different.

    But what's coming across is that if feels like you see WP as being at fault for people trying to use it for the wrong purpose - like blaming Nissan for not making boats. The person at fault is the person who drove the Nissa into a lake, not Nissan's fault for making a car when someone needed something else.

    I've never encountered one of these WP apostles. Never had anyone mention this as an issue before. So from our perspective, I think we only see the opposite problem - WP being shot down even when it might be the best solution, simply because there is a perception that it might be misused, which applies to any product.



  • @black3dynamite said in If Not WordPress, What's the Alternative:

    @scottalanmiller said in If Not WordPress, What's the Alternative:

    @360col said in If Not WordPress, What's the Alternative:

    Well if the site is not complex then something like Grav these days is much better IMHO

    I've been eyeing Grav for a while. It does look very interesting. ANy guesses as to pros and cons vs. WordPress? Beyond the obvious flat file vs database differences...

    Ever since discovering Wiki.js, I like the idea of using git for versioning backups and deployments.
    https://github.com/trilbymedia/grav-plugin-git-sync

    You can automate backups of the MariaDB, though. Not all that much different. Lighter, on big loads. GIT is actually a very heavy process. Great for tiny things, but bad for big ones.