@Dashrender said in Can we force drivers to install any more in Windows?:

Did you try the F8 option that JB mentioned?

Yes.
From my research it seems that this is only for when you have truly unsigned drivers. In my case, they are signed but with an expired cert, although others have said this doesn't matter.

To complicate matters more, I've now tried two other computers, and been on remote tech support with the company who remote-logged in to both Win7 and Win10 and got neither to work. He just said the USB is having communications errors and wants to send back the device for a $450 service repair.

But I had a spare unit (our previous model) which itself was repaired and I kept it as a spare. But trying to install that, I'm getting all the same issues! Even though it uses a different drive for its own model.

@marcinozga said in Can we force drivers to install any more in Windows?:

@guyinpv I had similar issues with certain USB dongle, on Intel USB controllers, after upgrading to Windows 10. I had a PCIE USB controller lying around, non-Intel chip, and that allowed me to install drivers. If you have a spare controller, it's worth a try.

It's not a controller, it's a dual DVD duplicator/printer device.

On Win7 I cannot make it load anything past the driver signing error box. Absolutely nothing works.

On Win10 it immediately loads a MS driver and calls it "Unknown USB Device (Device Descriptor Request Failed)". It won't let me change or update the driver in any way, it just instantly install that as soon as it scans for changes, even in safe mode.

I even went so far as to rename the windows\inf folder so that it would have no drivers to search through, and it still loaded that default MS unknown driver!

Setting the date didn't do anything on the Win10 box I'm trying.

In fact, Win10 didn't really report any problems as far as signing, it just popped up a box asking if I wanted to install the driver and I said yes.
Then nothing happened. I checked Device Manager but still not loaded, I have a "Unknown USB Device (Device Descriptor Request Failed)" device.

When I try to uninstall this, it comes back the same. When I try to update, it refuses to find the drivers I have, says no drivers exist or that Windows already chose the right driver.

In fact, on the screen where I'm supposed to select the driver from a list (where the "Have Disk" button is), it actually says "This driver is digitally signed".

But when I use Have Disk and go to the driver folder, it doesn't even attempt to show me it. It just says "The folder you specified doesn't contain a compatible software driver for your device."

Keep in mind, the driver manufacturer specifically lists the driver as being Win 10 compatible. I'm assuming it doesn't see the driver because it's actually looking for the unknown usb device which is a Microsoft driver already loaded. In other words, even though it's an unknown device, MS has still loaded some kind of signed MS driver. Somehow the two aren't matching up.

So now I can't get it working on Win7, nor Win10.

I'm currently trying to set up a Win7 virtual machine with an older copy of 7.

In this thread, a commenter suggests that the expiration date for the certificate is not taken into consideration at all when Windows checks code signing.
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/20569189/how-did-this-unsigned-driver-get-installed-on-windows-7-64-bit

Here is a person over at Toms that seems like they ran into same thing: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-3730907/disable-driver-signature-enforcement-working-anymore.html
No answers there however.

If it's the expired cert, then I either need to remove the cert entirely, perhaps allowing force of "true" unsigned cert? Or I need to somehow reup the cert somehow, probably not possible I would guess.

I have a DVD duplicator machine from Primera that is about 8 years old. The drivers they provide at the website claim support for Vista / 7 / 8 / 10, etc. They are dated November 2012. https://www.primera.com/bravo-pro-xi
It comes with 32bit and 64bit versions.

I've used this duplicator on a Windows 7 computer for years until the HDD died. I simply tried to install it onto another Windows 7 Pro computer but it absolutely will not install, I've tried so many things to get this to work.

The primary problem is that there is a signing error:

However, these drivers are in fact signed. If I dig into the cat file however, the only problem I can find is that the certificate is expired:

When I used Microsoft's signtool.exe tool, it passes the basic test for PnP device installation signing requirements. Reference here: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/devtest/signtool

When I test for kernel mode code signing, it does fail, saying it "does not chain to a Microsoft Root Cert."

I have tried 4 or 5 techniques to allow or force Windows to install the drivers anyway. I've used registry entry to ignore driver sign errors. I've used gpedit to change policy and allow install of unsigned drivers. I've restarted and used F8 menu to boot without driver sign verification. I've set Windows to "test mode" and allow such drivers, gpdedit.
I've set policy to not let Windows attempt auto-install of drivers.
I've tried to force both the 32bit and 64bit driver, all the same errors no matter which I try to use.

The error in Device Manager is this:

All the tricks I find online seem to apply to Windows from years ago. I think some changes came with Win10 that MS decided to basically ignore all those policies and completely enforces not allowing drivers with signing issues, for Win 8 and 7 as well I think. Except that my driver is not unsigned, it's signed and has a valid cert, but the cert is expired, and it apparently doesn't chain to a MS root cert. So it's not like I'm trying to force an unsigned driver, just one with a couple signing issues I guess.
And further, only the 64bit driver should be dealing with kernel mode issues, that shouldn't be a thing with the 32bit version.

So the point is, no tricks to force the driver are working, and I think it has to do with Win7 updates within the last year. When it was originally installed on the first Win7 computer, all I had to do with click the typical box that pops up to "allow device installation anyway", which is a common thing IT folks have seen forever when dealing with older drivers. But Windows ain't doing that any more.

If the only option to run this printer is install some old Win7 version and not update it, I don't think that's a good idea. I don't think I want to even bother trying to load this on a Win10 computer even though the driver says it will work on Win10.

And I can't replace the machine that easily since they cost many thousands of dollars.

I'm either completely screwed here, or there is still some way to load this driver that I haven't found yet. Or somehow inject the MS root cert into the chain (if that's the issue), or somehow renew the cert so it isn't expired (if that's the problem).

So I'm done fighting this for the last 2 weeks. What am I missing?

@scottalanmiller said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:

@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:

@Obsolesce said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:

Users aren't saving a copy to their hard drive, then putting it back after someone else moves or renames it?

Using the NextCloud Sync client, all the files are already local on their drives. So the users are using CTRL-X to cut files and paste them into other folders. And occasionally, those file operations reverse and a moved file goes back to where it was. Or a renamed files gets reversed. Or worse, a renamed and moved file because a duplicate in its original folder, leaving us with 2 copies with multiple names.

yeah, that's a behavioural thing that has to stop. Has to, period. Simply isn't something that they can do when using that kind of system, any system like that.

What behavior is better?

Assuming you mean they should stop using ctrl-x to cut and paste files. Are you suggesting they should, say, copy the file to their desktop, then delete the NC one, then copy the file back into the new folder location?

Funny thing is, when they ctrl-x and move a file, NC literally records the activity as a file move operation. It knows what just happened. That just makes everything that much more weird.

@Obsolesce said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:

Users aren't saving a copy to their hard drive, then putting it back after someone else moves or renames it?

Using the NextCloud Sync client, all the files are already local on their drives. So the users are using CTRL-X to cut files and paste them into other folders. And occasionally, those file operations reverse and a moved file goes back to where it was. Or a renamed files gets reversed. Or worse, a renamed and moved file because a duplicate in its original folder, leaving us with 2 copies with multiple names.

You guys are spot on.

The other thing to consider is when there are alternative technologies available. There are dozens and dozens of methods and services to do a sync'd folder share. So they reject the cost of Dropbox because they know I can host free NC software on a server that costs us $10/m. Heck I could probably do one of those torrent-based peer-to-peer file sync tools for completely free.

The second expectation is that no matter what we choose to go with, it will just magically work perfectly and never have issues. Because I'm IT, therefore whatever solution we choose should never have problems under my care. Doesn't matter if I buy a bicycle or an Echo or a Mustang, they should all get from A to B in a 3 second 0-60 and never have blowouts and always have room for the entire family.

Take, for example, Office. They used Office ever since buying Office 97 from the computer store all those years ago. Then they managed to spend out for 2000 and then 2007. But never all the computers, oh no, just the "Main" computers. So we had a mess of '97, 2000, and 2007 Office installed all over when I first got here.
When 2007 was really getting long in the tooth I pushed for an upgrade so everybody could have the same version. By then, MS had gone to 365. So even through all the gnashing of teeth about having to "rent" software, I finally got approved to setup O365 accounts. Oh, but ya only buy accounts for these people, and those people can share them. Garrrr! Yes I told them it's against TOS. But the point is, we couldn't get any other "Office". They rejected OpenOffice and Libre and online Google Docs, etc. They only wanted what they were used to, and now we could only get it with 365. So we had to buy it.

Similarly we are forced to buy our ecommerce products and services, shipping management tools, label hardware, hosting, etc etc.

I needed a half-decent NAS and my research ended up with the Synology. They don't tend to complain much about hardware purchases, but man do they hate having to do monthly service fees of any kind at all. Monthly fees are their kryptonite! I always try to find software and services with a lifetime license any time I come across a deal.

But when it comes to just getting a shared cloud folder, there is no clear winner in this category, nor are we used to any particular system. So it becomes purely a game of getting the cheapest thing possible, because there are so many options. And because the technology is handling such a simple/basic concept (i.e. shared folder), there aren't many reasons to think one method is any better than another. It's just, who has the best price.

But hey, the boss has a kid whose boyfriend once set up an XBOX, and they heard the Apple iCloud is nice, so of course they demand that is something we should use, based on authority. In a Windows-based company. Why is it always the boss's kid's girlfriend/boyfriend that gets to settle IT debates? Weird.

The thing is, it's not about just two people editing over each other. NC handles that with a conflict file.
The operation that keeps causing people trouble is either renaming a file, in which the old name comes back to life. Or moving a file, in which it reverses and goes back to where it was.

In some cases when they rename and move a file, we end up with the same file existing in BOTH folders. I would assume easily in this case they simply copied rather than moved, but the employee is adamant, swears under oath, they did CTRL-X and not CTRL-C to move it. They'll even say they "saw the file disappear" when they cut it. Of course, the files don't actually disappear in Windows, they just kind of turn greyed out.

So it's my word versus theirs. My insistence the software works right and they probably just copied, versus their word they swear they cut it. And guess who wins the hey-said/she-said? Not the IT dept that's for sure. Everybody blames the cloud, and by extension me, and thus I have to go find another cloud provider until we never have issues and nothing is ever broken.