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@brrabill said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
Our account level of O365 doesn't include Sharepoint, just 1TB of OneDrive space.
What are you on the "Business" plan?
Maybe it's worth upgrading someone to the $4 a month more plan and getting a sharepoint site.
Just one user? Or all users need higher plan to get it?
@harry-lui said in Synology one bad sector crashes whole volume RAID0:
@guyinpv said in Synology one bad sector crashes whole volume RAID0:
The NAS has 2 x 4TB WD Red drives. I'm running them striped since I wanted more space and perhaps speed.
...
SATA drives speed > 1 Gbps, there was no speed advantage. Since you didn't need the space, all you did was add risk by running RAID 0.
Yes it was risk. The NAS was originally just going to be an external backup for the server. I only used RAID 0 for the combined space which is close to the what my server has which uses RAID 10 and 4 drives.
Frankly I just thought it would be more robust. I mean, I know it "can" fail, just didn't think it would be within a year. I also know my car tires can get blowouts, but I don't expect one every month or two either.
I'll probably replace this WD Red now it's at 39 bad sectors. Redo the RAID with a mirror instead. I'll lose the space but I don't expect to use up 4TB soon anyway.
So I was checking out WebDAV, I have one connected on a Win7 computer and one on Win10.
Except for the Win10 not connecting until I changed registry entries, they are both connected, but no file locks. In fact this appears to be a big deal in NC still:
https://help.nextcloud.com/t/webdav-lock-on-file-doesnt-work/21451
https://github.com/nextcloud/server/issues/1308
https://github.com/nextcloud/desktop/issues/83#issuecomment-377030532
Then some people have problems with the default Win10 WebDAV client:
https://help.nextcloud.com/t/windows-10-and-webdav-access/9091
Not sure what's going on here.
On top of that, whenever I open a MS Office documents, it prompts for credentials every.single.time.
https://www.experts-exchange.com/questions/27213603/How-to-stop-webdav-from-prompting-for-credentials-when-accessing-a-public-internet-based-webdav-site.html
That's annoying, boss would never allow this ridiculous extra step.
So is WebDAV the answer? Kinda meh on that right now. Sure it's not doing local sync, which saves some drive space, but we can't do any work if offline, and annoying prompts, and still no file locks, so really of little benefit it seems. Unless there is a better server than NC which has better support for file locks.
@black3dynamite said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
Or secondly, completely change to Google Docs or MS online and tell people to edit docs in the browser, because they support multiple users editing at once. That's never going to happen though.
Why not? The users don't want use a browser to work on documents? Cost to much?
Does anybody like working on documents entirely in the browser? Besides MS docs, how would you work on other stuff like Photoshop files, CAD files, flowcharts, any other doc types, those would still require to download/do work/upload which is not an enjoyable process compared to just opening a folder with a shortcut on the desktop and then double-clicking a file.
Plus they lose all the local computer shortcuts for renaming and moving files around, creating them etc. They have to learn a whole new series of tasks for working with files in the web.
If that were the only choice, then sure, but it's not the only choice. There should be such a thing in existence called a file sync tool. And there are such things. I'm trying to find one that works solid.
@obsolesce said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
Have you tried SharePoint via O365?
Our account level of O365 doesn't include Sharepoint, just 1TB of OneDrive space.
@jaredbusch said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@dashrender said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@coliver said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@dashrender said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@coliver said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@dashrender said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@irj said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@irj said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
I use NC and love it like everyone else. However for this scenario, Office online and one drive is the best tool for what you are trying to accomplish.
It's simple, easy to use and requires very minimal training since the company is already likely utilizing office . It functions just like the desktop versions in every way and makes file sharing extremely easy.
When I tested with OneDrive over a year ago, it wasn't syncing files the way we need. It wasn't letting us sync to desktop any shared folders. I believe it might be able to do this now, I'd have to test again.
We do have Office365 but we don't have accounts for every user individually. Some of our office computers are shared and so multiple people might be working under the same user.
I personally have my own O365 business account for my home business and I've found it to work pretty well although I don'y have any shared folders with other people.
I feel like it's been only a couple months since I scrubbed onedrive off all our computers cause it wasn't working right. Feels wrong to go right back to it again. What a pain.
One Drive Sharing in itself should be sufficient. If I create a file, I can share with certain users or everyone and they are able to see it under "Shared with Me" directly under their OneDrive.
If it is shared in OneDrive, then why copy it to a network shared folder? That doesnt really make any sense? I can understand copying it locally of course, but why the need for it to be in a shared folder?
Btw that is very bad practice to share accounts like that, which I am sure you already know.
To my knowledge (tested about a year ago), OneDrive folders when shared could not be synced to local computers. It would only sync your own folders. This may have changed but local computer sync simply couldn't be done back when I used it.
I'm not doing a second copy to a local shared folder. I simply want local sync period. Obviously if our share becomes a lot larger than 11GB, it will begin to make more sense to not sync absolutely everything. But the folder isn't growing that fast so I'll wait for that day.
Syncing 11 GB just seems like a horrible situation. How do these system deal with file locks?
I'm in your same exact boat. If I want to move to LANLess, I'm going to have to break my users away from a general sync'ed drive - at least in my mind. Sync your personal files, but the central shared filestore - that's likely going to have to go on a checkout like basis with SharePoint or maybe NextCloud - but it will require re-education of users on how to use it.
Modern SaberDAV (the WebDAV server that NextCloud uses) can handle file locks similar to Sharepoint. WebDAV is a transitional technology in my mind but it does a fantastic job of it.
Offline access is the real issue. Apps that understand how to natively talk to something like NC (is that a thing?) or OneDrive or SharePoint seems to really be the future. You open the app, the app has direct access to the data in question.
The problem comes in when you need/want offline access. How do you set it up at an app level for online syncing?
Hence why I called WebDAV a transitional technology. It's good for the applications that can't directly access the date on the webserver. By the way Office natively uses WebDAV to access files on Sharepoint and Onedrive.
How do you do that with traditional on-site SMB shares? Sure you can do offline files but that introduces the same issues that we've been talking about here.
From a central shared drive - you're right, same problem.
@guyinpv - why the need for syncing? are the people really needing offline file access?
Because he has no idea what he is doing.
The answer to what he wants is to use WebDAV properly.
From NextCloud themselves:
The recommended way to synchronize a desktop PC with a Nextcloud server is by using Nextcloud/ownCloud sync clients.
Second, it's pretty stupid to say I don't know what I'm doing because the sync software doesn't do what it's suppose to. What does the software not working have to do with me? If the sync client worked right, there would be no problems at all!
I came in the office this morning immediately greeted with "you need to check the cloud..." because once again, somebody claims they moved files from one folder to another, and they DID move and sync, they saw it happen, but 3 days later all the files were magically moved back to their original location.
I don't even know under what conditions something like this could happen, it's like an "undo" event or something. My thoughts are that some other computer which was maybe turned off or hadn't synced in a while, uploaded its files back? Some kind of time stamp issue? I've checked all the computer's clocks but who knows.
@dashrender said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
i.e. 10 users 15 computers, 5 of them shared, 10 assigned, you'll need at least 11 accounts, or use one of the user's accounts on the 5 shared - but then you have no accountability for that one user - maybe that's not an issue.
It's really not. I'm trying to solve the most basic functionality at this point, which is to simply have a single shared folder that the whole office uses which is very robust.
And I would just get rid of the "cloud" and use a network share except that a few people want access from home and even a couple times from mobile/tablets/laptops, etc. There are ways to do that I know, but I thought cloud sync could easily do this.
@dashrender said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
How do these system deal with file locks?
There are no file locks without special activities. For example on OneDrive, if you open files directly via inside Word/Excel, you can have the system apply a lock (could be wrong).
I know that when we used Box, you could right-click a file and use a submenu to manually apply a lock, and then open the file, then manually remove the lock. But users simply wouldn't use it. Too many steps.
The only two ways I know to get out of this is either go back to LAN share and then sync that to a cloud service which can then be attached to offsite/mobiles.
Or secondly, completely change to Google Docs or MS online and tell people to edit docs in the browser, because they support multiple users editing at once. That's never going to happen though.
@irj said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
Why won't office 365 work? You can sync the user's files locally. I'm not understanding why that won't work for your situation. What am I missing?
@coliver said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
WebDAV is not the answer to my questions. Nobody here is going to work all day out of Cyberduck.
What... what are you talking about here? WebDAV connects identically to how a SMB share connects on a Windows machine. You simply mount it as a shared drive or add the WebDAV URL as a quick access point.
You are correct. I conflated earlier comments regarding using SCP and Cyberduck, etc.
Interestingly, I force turned off the Synology, pulled the drives and did a quick canned air cleanup.
Turned back on and it came to life. Looking at the drive screen, the count of bad sectors is now at 38.
This makes no sense, jumping from 0 bad to 38 out of the blue.
I know enough about drives to know they can recover from bad sectors and avoid those areas of the disk. It's weird to me that it would bring down the entire volume and crash the whole thing over a bad sector.
Was reading this thread and seems some people thing it could be a DSM bug: https://forum.synology.com/enu/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=93339&start=30
I did happen to do a DSM upgrade this morning but all was well until I ran that full backup onto the USB drive. It crashed somewhere in the the middle of that backup.
@dashrender said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@irj said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
Btw that is very bad practice to share accounts like that, which I am sure you already know.
is it just a bad practice, or is it against the TOS?
It is not against the TOS. If you have a standard DB account, you can install it on as many devices as you want.
If you have a DB Business account, which is minimum 3 users I think, then each user should have their own account.
Dropbox was perfectly fine with me purchasing multiple standard accounts and then installing them on whatever devices make sense. But if we wanted a business plan, they want one account per user. Although when I talked to them about our "generic" multi-user computers, they were still okay with having one account used on multiple general stations.
@irj said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@irj said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
I use NC and love it like everyone else. However for this scenario, Office online and one drive is the best tool for what you are trying to accomplish.
It's simple, easy to use and requires very minimal training since the company is already likely utilizing office . It functions just like the desktop versions in every way and makes file sharing extremely easy.
When I tested with OneDrive over a year ago, it wasn't syncing files the way we need. It wasn't letting us sync to desktop any shared folders. I believe it might be able to do this now, I'd have to test again.
We do have Office365 but we don't have accounts for every user individually. Some of our office computers are shared and so multiple people might be working under the same user.
I personally have my own O365 business account for my home business and I've found it to work pretty well although I don'y have any shared folders with other people.
I feel like it's been only a couple months since I scrubbed onedrive off all our computers cause it wasn't working right. Feels wrong to go right back to it again. What a pain.
One Drive Sharing in itself should be sufficient. If I create a file, I can share with certain users or everyone and they are able to see it under "Shared with Me" directly under their OneDrive.
If it is shared in OneDrive, then why copy it to a network shared folder? That doesnt really make any sense? I can understand copying it locally of course, but why the need for it to be in a shared folder?
Btw that is very bad practice to share accounts like that, which I am sure you already know.
To my knowledge (tested about a year ago), OneDrive folders when shared could not be synced to local computers. It would only sync your own folders. This may have changed but local computer sync simply couldn't be done back when I used it.
I'm not doing a second copy to a local shared folder. I simply want local sync period. Obviously if our share becomes a lot larger than 11GB, it will begin to make more sense to not sync absolutely everything. But the folder isn't growing that fast so I'll wait for that day.