Solved Email server options
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@Dashrender said in Email server options:
@pmoncho said in Email server options:
@scottalanmiller said in Email server options:
@pmoncho said in Email server options:
@Dashrender said in Email server options:
@pmoncho said in Email server options:
@Dashrender said in Email server options:
@pmoncho said in Email server options:
@Dashrender said in Email server options:
@scottalanmiller said in Email server options:
@Dashrender said in Email server options:
Now fine, you said you have some existing hardware that you can use for it, but will be replacing it in a year or two - that cost should definitely be added in.
Should factor, for sure. But it is often super cheap. Zimbra or MailCow use very few resources compared to something like Exchange. The per user cost gets super low in most cases. If you want a top end cost, price it out on Vultr, Digital Ocean, or Linode and see what it would cost that way. It'll be "low". And running it on your own will always be way less. So its super conservative.
Interesting. My issue on my VM platform is storage - I don't have a 500 GB+ left over to offer all 100 of my users 5+ GB
I wish I could get my 5+ GB users to understand how useless their email hoarding is. Half the emails they keep for 8+ years are irrelevant to anything today.
Sadly, my boss constantly likes to point out how she found an email from 8 years ago that helped her today.
The reality is - I knew email would be a huge storage sink if I didn't squash it from day one. Normal users get 500 Megs - yep, 1/2 gig for mail. Admins get 1 Gig, Drs get unlimited, but most live in well under 1 Gig.
My boss has the largest mailbox at 6 Gig currently along with 4 PSTs different points where we've removed old data from the live mailbox. She likely has well over 20 Gigs of email data.I tried to do the same thing until the boss tells me, let User A have more, then the word spread. Complain to the boss and then boss tells me. My arguments fall on deaf ears and I have to comply with the request.
I get that from time to time - But then I tell the boss - hey, if you keep this up, I'm going to need to spend $1000 to add more storage, it's kinda an all or nothing... i.e. you make me up two more users, and I'll be spending that $1000. That makes them stop and ponder if those people really need more space.
That is why I would like to get to O365. If the boss sees the recurring bill, she will see the light.
I mean, who the heck needs multiple 800KB PDF attachments from Medicaid about a new entry into their online manual? Uhhhh, its an online manual, you can search it anytime you like until you retire. Much easier to search the Medicaid manual vs our email.
You can always create your own billing sheet to break down where money is going.
I kinda do something like this about once a year when I get in discussion with my boss. I give her a rundown on how much costs in paper and toner we save by using encrypted email along with a fax server, then add up how much storage has increased because of numerous saved emails (multiple attachments and such), along with multiple downloads of the same files in the file shares storage.
My users save files like people save photos. Lets take 100 of the same shot to make sure we get the right one, but don't delete the 99 others. It doesn't cost much, its basically free. I explain its cheaper than paper storage but gets costly when you have to scour for over an hour to find the actual document/email/attachment you need within the 1000's of duplicated files left in your folders.
What encrypted email solution did you find that you save money over other options? Most of the ones I looked at were like $6/user/month, that's a nearly impossible mountain of cost for me to climb over with printing costs.
We moved to paperless faxing (for receipt anyway) ages ago, so that cost is mostly gone already.
Well, we use Barracuda Email Security Service and it comes with it. It is not the best solution but it works for our clients. Basically, it uses Barracuda's webmail that uses TLS and AES256 for data at rest.
https://www.barracuda.com/landing/upgradefrommxlogic/secure-email-delivery
With BESS and ATP added it comes out to about $1.5 per user/mo.
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@pmoncho said in Email server options:
@Dashrender said in Email server options:
@pmoncho said in Email server options:
@scottalanmiller said in Email server options:
@pmoncho said in Email server options:
@Dashrender said in Email server options:
@pmoncho said in Email server options:
@Dashrender said in Email server options:
@pmoncho said in Email server options:
@Dashrender said in Email server options:
@scottalanmiller said in Email server options:
@Dashrender said in Email server options:
Now fine, you said you have some existing hardware that you can use for it, but will be replacing it in a year or two - that cost should definitely be added in.
Should factor, for sure. But it is often super cheap. Zimbra or MailCow use very few resources compared to something like Exchange. The per user cost gets super low in most cases. If you want a top end cost, price it out on Vultr, Digital Ocean, or Linode and see what it would cost that way. It'll be "low". And running it on your own will always be way less. So its super conservative.
Interesting. My issue on my VM platform is storage - I don't have a 500 GB+ left over to offer all 100 of my users 5+ GB
I wish I could get my 5+ GB users to understand how useless their email hoarding is. Half the emails they keep for 8+ years are irrelevant to anything today.
Sadly, my boss constantly likes to point out how she found an email from 8 years ago that helped her today.
The reality is - I knew email would be a huge storage sink if I didn't squash it from day one. Normal users get 500 Megs - yep, 1/2 gig for mail. Admins get 1 Gig, Drs get unlimited, but most live in well under 1 Gig.
My boss has the largest mailbox at 6 Gig currently along with 4 PSTs different points where we've removed old data from the live mailbox. She likely has well over 20 Gigs of email data.I tried to do the same thing until the boss tells me, let User A have more, then the word spread. Complain to the boss and then boss tells me. My arguments fall on deaf ears and I have to comply with the request.
I get that from time to time - But then I tell the boss - hey, if you keep this up, I'm going to need to spend $1000 to add more storage, it's kinda an all or nothing... i.e. you make me up two more users, and I'll be spending that $1000. That makes them stop and ponder if those people really need more space.
That is why I would like to get to O365. If the boss sees the recurring bill, she will see the light.
I mean, who the heck needs multiple 800KB PDF attachments from Medicaid about a new entry into their online manual? Uhhhh, its an online manual, you can search it anytime you like until you retire. Much easier to search the Medicaid manual vs our email.
You can always create your own billing sheet to break down where money is going.
I kinda do something like this about once a year when I get in discussion with my boss. I give her a rundown on how much costs in paper and toner we save by using encrypted email along with a fax server, then add up how much storage has increased because of numerous saved emails (multiple attachments and such), along with multiple downloads of the same files in the file shares storage.
My users save files like people save photos. Lets take 100 of the same shot to make sure we get the right one, but don't delete the 99 others. It doesn't cost much, its basically free. I explain its cheaper than paper storage but gets costly when you have to scour for over an hour to find the actual document/email/attachment you need within the 1000's of duplicated files left in your folders.
What encrypted email solution did you find that you save money over other options? Most of the ones I looked at were like $6/user/month, that's a nearly impossible mountain of cost for me to climb over with printing costs.
We moved to paperless faxing (for receipt anyway) ages ago, so that cost is mostly gone already.
Well, we use Barracuda Email Security Service and it comes with it. It is not the best solution but it works for our clients. Basically, it uses Barracuda's webmail that uses TLS and AES256 for data at rest.
https://www.barracuda.com/landing/upgradefrommxlogic/secure-email-delivery
With BESS and ATP added it comes out to about $1.5 per user/mo.
I can't trust barracuda - for the same reason I can't trust lenovo - just to many skeletons in the closet - plus the ridiculous notion that using an app to manage their firewall makes it more secure than using HTML.
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@Dashrender said in Email server options:
@pmoncho said in Email server options:
@Dashrender said in Email server options:
@pmoncho said in Email server options:
@scottalanmiller said in Email server options:
@pmoncho said in Email server options:
@Dashrender said in Email server options:
@pmoncho said in Email server options:
@Dashrender said in Email server options:
@pmoncho said in Email server options:
@Dashrender said in Email server options:
@scottalanmiller said in Email server options:
@Dashrender said in Email server options:
Now fine, you said you have some existing hardware that you can use for it, but will be replacing it in a year or two - that cost should definitely be added in.
Should factor, for sure. But it is often super cheap. Zimbra or MailCow use very few resources compared to something like Exchange. The per user cost gets super low in most cases. If you want a top end cost, price it out on Vultr, Digital Ocean, or Linode and see what it would cost that way. It'll be "low". And running it on your own will always be way less. So its super conservative.
Interesting. My issue on my VM platform is storage - I don't have a 500 GB+ left over to offer all 100 of my users 5+ GB
I wish I could get my 5+ GB users to understand how useless their email hoarding is. Half the emails they keep for 8+ years are irrelevant to anything today.
Sadly, my boss constantly likes to point out how she found an email from 8 years ago that helped her today.
The reality is - I knew email would be a huge storage sink if I didn't squash it from day one. Normal users get 500 Megs - yep, 1/2 gig for mail. Admins get 1 Gig, Drs get unlimited, but most live in well under 1 Gig.
My boss has the largest mailbox at 6 Gig currently along with 4 PSTs different points where we've removed old data from the live mailbox. She likely has well over 20 Gigs of email data.I tried to do the same thing until the boss tells me, let User A have more, then the word spread. Complain to the boss and then boss tells me. My arguments fall on deaf ears and I have to comply with the request.
I get that from time to time - But then I tell the boss - hey, if you keep this up, I'm going to need to spend $1000 to add more storage, it's kinda an all or nothing... i.e. you make me up two more users, and I'll be spending that $1000. That makes them stop and ponder if those people really need more space.
That is why I would like to get to O365. If the boss sees the recurring bill, she will see the light.
I mean, who the heck needs multiple 800KB PDF attachments from Medicaid about a new entry into their online manual? Uhhhh, its an online manual, you can search it anytime you like until you retire. Much easier to search the Medicaid manual vs our email.
You can always create your own billing sheet to break down where money is going.
I kinda do something like this about once a year when I get in discussion with my boss. I give her a rundown on how much costs in paper and toner we save by using encrypted email along with a fax server, then add up how much storage has increased because of numerous saved emails (multiple attachments and such), along with multiple downloads of the same files in the file shares storage.
My users save files like people save photos. Lets take 100 of the same shot to make sure we get the right one, but don't delete the 99 others. It doesn't cost much, its basically free. I explain its cheaper than paper storage but gets costly when you have to scour for over an hour to find the actual document/email/attachment you need within the 1000's of duplicated files left in your folders.
What encrypted email solution did you find that you save money over other options? Most of the ones I looked at were like $6/user/month, that's a nearly impossible mountain of cost for me to climb over with printing costs.
We moved to paperless faxing (for receipt anyway) ages ago, so that cost is mostly gone already.
Well, we use Barracuda Email Security Service and it comes with it. It is not the best solution but it works for our clients. Basically, it uses Barracuda's webmail that uses TLS and AES256 for data at rest.
https://www.barracuda.com/landing/upgradefrommxlogic/secure-email-delivery
With BESS and ATP added it comes out to about $1.5 per user/mo.
I can't trust barracuda - for the same reason I can't trust lenovo - just to many skeletons in the closet - plus the ridiculous notion that using an app to manage their firewall makes it more secure than using HTML.
I understand. I have my own issues with vendors also.
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Limiting email storage to save a few dollars on storage is a small cost saving for the IT department but a HUGE cost for the business. How many important emails are lost when the inbox is full? How much time is wasted by the employees when they have to go trough emails and decide what they want to keep?
This is just one example of IT working against the interest of the business. You save $100 in one end but pay $1000 somewhere else.
It's somewhat ridiculous letting users have say 1GB of email storage when their freaking phone has 30 or 60 times as much storage. 1000 users each storing on average 10GB of data will fit on one tiny little 10TB disk. 1000 users each spending 30 minutes deleting old emails will cost a lot more than the storage.
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@Pete-S said in Email server options:
Limiting email storage to save a few dollars on storage is a small cost saving for the IT department but a HUGE cost for the business. How many important emails are lost when the inbox is full? How much time is wasted by the employees when they have to go trough emails and decide what they want to keep?
This is just one example of IT working against the interest of the business. You save $100 in one end but pay $1000 somewhere else.
It's somewhat ridiculous letting users have say 1GB of email storage when their freaking phone has 30 or 60 times as much storage. 1000 users each storing on average 10GB of data will fit on one tiny little 10TB disk. 1000 users each spending 30 minutes deleting old emails will cost a lot more than the storage.
Well his users are not allowed to have work email on their phones either.
But allowing people to just keep everything is a huge waste as previously noted. It is also likely going to cause legal problems when the company gets sued.
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@Pete-S said in Email server options:
This is just one example of IT working against the interest of the business. You save $100 in one end but pay $1000 somewhere else.
It's somewhat ridiculous letting users have say 1GB of email storage when their freaking phone has 30 or 60 times as much storage. 1000 users each storing on average 10GB of data will fit on one tiny little 10TB disk. 1000 users each spending 30 minutes deleting old emails will cost a lot more than the storage.This is very true, but there is a still bigger picture that has to be considered. If you are in the US, for example, the cost of liability on old emails can be insanely high. Having 10TB of data isn't just a pain to back up, but getting a legal hold put on that and paying lawyers to go through by hand will be crippling. And as mailboxes get bigger, we risk people becoming inefficient and not being able to find the emails that they need. There has to be a balance.
IT gets caught up in "storage costs money" and operations gets caught up in "I don't want to have to do anything to organize myself" and there needs to be someone actively looking at the holistic situation and determining what makes sense considering storage, backups, legal liabilities, efficiency, business needs, etc.
Does keeping a mailbox small really use more resources, or does it just make you do a little all of the time? There are a lot of things to consider. I don't need a large mailbox, and it is keeping my mailbox small that keeps me efficient. As a businessman, I want my people to have small mailboxes to keep them from losing things and wasting time looking for stuff because they stored it in email instead of somewhere useful.
So while it might sound like big mailboxes is cheap because people are expensive, that can also be the reason why small mailboxes are cheap, even when storage isn't part of the equation.
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Seems like @Dashrender really like mailcow =P
What does everyone else think?
BTW, I forgot to setup the DNS records, for auto discover, so if you try to setup a phone right now it might not auto discover the server until DNS updates. In any case, you can give your phone the server URL and it will work.
I'll keep all your account active for a week or so, if you want one time, please let me know.
Anyone still interest, the offer stands
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@Curtis said in Email server options:
I'll keep all your account active for a week or so, if you want one time, please let me know.
I think you need to run an ML mail service for everyone.
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@Curtis said in Email server options:
What does everyone else think?
So far I am really liking it. Want to make one for @romo and @valentina too?
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@scottalanmiller said in Email server options:
@Curtis said in Email server options:
I'll keep all your account active for a week or so, if you want one time, please let me know.
I think you need to run an ML mail service for everyone
Thinking about it. Just not sure I could do it for free.
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@Curtis said in Email server options:
@scottalanmiller said in Email server options:
@Curtis said in Email server options:
I'll keep all your account active for a week or so, if you want one time, please let me know.
I think you need to run an ML mail service for everyone
Thinking about it. Just sure I could do it for free.
I bet you'd only be looking at 20-30 people seriously interested. Would be pretty cool, though.
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Mailcow offers domain admins as well, so everyone could still have complete control of their domain.
Create accounts, alias, etc.
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@Curtis said in Email server options:
Mailcow offers domain admins as well, so everyone could still have complete control of their domain.
Create accounts, alias, etc.
Really? That's really nice!
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@JaredBusch said in Email server options:
@Pete-S said in Email server options:
Limiting email storage to save a few dollars on storage is a small cost saving for the IT department but a HUGE cost for the business. How many important emails are lost when the inbox is full? How much time is wasted by the employees when they have to go trough emails and decide what they want to keep?
This is just one example of IT working against the interest of the business. You save $100 in one end but pay $1000 somewhere else.
It's somewhat ridiculous letting users have say 1GB of email storage when their freaking phone has 30 or 60 times as much storage. 1000 users each storing on average 10GB of data will fit on one tiny little 10TB disk. 1000 users each spending 30 minutes deleting old emails will cost a lot more than the storage.
Well his users are not allowed to have work email on their phones either.
But allowing people to just keep everything is a huge waste as previously noted. It is also likely going to cause legal problems when the company gets sued.
Yep on every account. Plus - it's been that way since day one for those employees - so they are forced to keep their email accounts clean from the get go... they won't be spending a bunch of time later deleting shit out - read it and delete it... done.
And 10 TB of storage is still hugely expensive. I just had 4 TB usable (RAID 10, so puchase 8 TB) and the cost was $3100. That's nearly double the price of server hardware itself.
I'm not saying it's expensive, but it's definitely not cheap.
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@Curtis said in Email server options:
Seems like @Dashrender really like mailcow =P
What does everyone else think?
BTW, I forgot to setup the DNS records, for auto discover, so if you try to setup a phone right now it might not auto discover the server until DNS updates. In any case, you can give your phone the server URL and it will work.
I'll keep all your account active for a week or so, if you want one time, please let me know.
Anyone still interest, the offer stands
I still need to hook an Outlook client to it, and a phone.. but the web interface - the fact that it asked to integrate into the MailTO right click option was super awesome!!! Hell OWA doesn't even do that.
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@Dashrender said in Email server options:
@JaredBusch said in Email server options:
@Pete-S said in Email server options:
Limiting email storage to save a few dollars on storage is a small cost saving for the IT department but a HUGE cost for the business. How many important emails are lost when the inbox is full? How much time is wasted by the employees when they have to go trough emails and decide what they want to keep?
This is just one example of IT working against the interest of the business. You save $100 in one end but pay $1000 somewhere else.
It's somewhat ridiculous letting users have say 1GB of email storage when their freaking phone has 30 or 60 times as much storage. 1000 users each storing on average 10GB of data will fit on one tiny little 10TB disk. 1000 users each spending 30 minutes deleting old emails will cost a lot more than the storage.
Well his users are not allowed to have work email on their phones either.
But allowing people to just keep everything is a huge waste as previously noted. It is also likely going to cause legal problems when the company gets sued
And 10 TB of storage is still hugely expensive. I just had 4 TB usable (RAID 10, so puchase 8 TB) and the cost was $3100. That's nearly double the price of server hardware itself.
I'm not saying it's expensive, but it's definitely not cheap.
You are doing something wrong. Disks are not that expensive.
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@JaredBusch said in Email server options:
@Dashrender said in Email server options:
@JaredBusch said in Email server options:
@Pete-S said in Email server options:
Limiting email storage to save a few dollars on storage is a small cost saving for the IT department but a HUGE cost for the business. How many important emails are lost when the inbox is full? How much time is wasted by the employees when they have to go trough emails and decide what they want to keep?
This is just one example of IT working against the interest of the business. You save $100 in one end but pay $1000 somewhere else.
It's somewhat ridiculous letting users have say 1GB of email storage when their freaking phone has 30 or 60 times as much storage. 1000 users each storing on average 10GB of data will fit on one tiny little 10TB disk. 1000 users each spending 30 minutes deleting old emails will cost a lot more than the storage.
Well his users are not allowed to have work email on their phones either.
But allowing people to just keep everything is a huge waste as previously noted. It is also likely going to cause legal problems when the company gets sued
And 10 TB of storage is still hugely expensive. I just had 4 TB usable (RAID 10, so puchase 8 TB) and the cost was $3100. That's nearly double the price of server hardware itself.
I'm not saying it's expensive, but it's definitely not cheap.
You are doing something wrong. Disks are not that expensive.
Maybe SSDs in RAID?
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Samsung EVO 970 1TB for $250. If you want 4TB of usable and bought 8 of these for RAID 10 it would be $2,000.
So if you are getting enterprise drives from the server vendor themselves, I could see $3,200.
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Now if you did RAID 5 you'd only need five of them. So more like $1,250.
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@JaredBusch said in Email server options:
@Dashrender said in Email server options:
@JaredBusch said in Email server options:
@Pete-S said in Email server options:
Limiting email storage to save a few dollars on storage is a small cost saving for the IT department but a HUGE cost for the business. How many important emails are lost when the inbox is full? How much time is wasted by the employees when they have to go trough emails and decide what they want to keep?
This is just one example of IT working against the interest of the business. You save $100 in one end but pay $1000 somewhere else.
It's somewhat ridiculous letting users have say 1GB of email storage when their freaking phone has 30 or 60 times as much storage. 1000 users each storing on average 10GB of data will fit on one tiny little 10TB disk. 1000 users each spending 30 minutes deleting old emails will cost a lot more than the storage.
Well his users are not allowed to have work email on their phones either.
But allowing people to just keep everything is a huge waste as previously noted. It is also likely going to cause legal problems when the company gets sued
And 10 TB of storage is still hugely expensive. I just had 4 TB usable (RAID 10, so puchase 8 TB) and the cost was $3100. That's nearly double the price of server hardware itself.
I'm not saying it's expensive, but it's definitely not cheap.
You are doing something wrong. Disks are not that expensive.
Here is the line item from Yonah
