Looking for some neat Server Build Projects
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@tim_g said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@tim_g said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@dashrender said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@dashrender said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@jaredbusch said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@guyinpv said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@guyinpv said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
Well I guess I'll just have to buy O365 to get Word and Excel. Then buy Google Apps to get Drive. Then buy some other suite just to get a decent intranet. Then another suite to get some notes. Then another suite just to get the wiki. ffs
Why do you need Word and Excel? I mean lots of people need them but why do you?
Because all the non-techy people are used to Office. I only recently finally got them to stop using old copies of Office 2007. At least now they can use 2016 on O365. They will not use anything else, and threw a hissy fit when MS started pushing Office as a subscription model. They were THIS close to forcing us to keep using 2007 just because we happened to have those licenses and the software still runs fine.
MS's licensing model is such a pain. All I want is updated software, and all the boss wants is to not spend thousands of dollars upgrading when the old stuff "still works". And nothing compares to Word/Excel right now. Don't even bother telling me to try doing spreadsheets in the cloud in a web browser on Google. No chance of ever getting anybody around here to do that.
I use LibreOffice on Windows and it runs perfectly. Most users do not know the difference. Power user of course would.
I call BS - most if not ALL users would know the difference, but would they care - assuming formatting it identical, they would probably wouldn't care.
In tests that I've seen, users actually couldn't tell it wasn't MS Office. That users feel they need MS Office is something that they repeat, but rarely based on something real.
I agree with you on the point of people repeating that they need something they likely don't. But as already mentioned, the last time I looked at converting, the layouts changed drastically between MS Office and anything else, that made it a no go.
Plus, as just mentioned, we still get many quotes in doc or docx format for whatever crazy reason...
Perhaps I should just start changing pricing and submit the signed quote back to them (which is a PDF because I print and sign it.) lolYeah I hear ya. Just going to a different versions of MS Office can create weeks of work reformatting large spreadsheets for some people. I can imaging going to a completely different software.
Starting out with nothing, I'd definitely go with LO.
Although that highlights a reason to change - only go through the breakage once, instead of on a regular basis.
For sure.
Not that LO could never have formatting issues, I've just never seen it. Been on it for 18 years at least, not one issue like MS Office users seem to get all the time.
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@scottalanmiller said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@dashrender said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@guyinpv said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
Theme is only part of it really. Though I really wish they would modernize.
The MS ribbon didn't get good reviews when it first came out. Anything different is immediately attacked.
But over time it makes sense, organizing groups of similar buttons and collapsing the ribbon, etc. LO and OO are still just like, 'here are 142 buttons all in rows, you're welcome'.It's less about the theme I think, and more about file compatibility. I can open Word files sent to me by others, but it's not always the case an ODF or something will be compatible with some other person's Office 2010, or that the formatting will remain the same when we send it to them even if they can open it.
Why would others send you Word files, though? Word is for collaboration, not something you'd get from the outside. And from the inside, once you've switched, the problem is solved.
Don't ask me why - but tons of vendors send word documents for quotes instead of PDFs. I tried to kill doc and docx files at our gateway - the pitch forks came out in droves!.
Have a chat with them about security, instead of about proper file formats.
LOL - they could care less about security. But it is a good place to start a conversation with someone who might. But like so many users - they would likely push back because of the perceived additional work they have to do.
Today - open template, add line items, save docx to local repo, click send file to email, email.
Tomorrow - open template, add line items, save docx to local repo (allows for future edits), save as PDF, get PDF into email, email.Sure it's not rocket science, but there is clearly a new step needed.
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@scottalanmiller said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@tim_g said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@dashrender said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@dashrender said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@jaredbusch said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@guyinpv said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@guyinpv said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
Well I guess I'll just have to buy O365 to get Word and Excel. Then buy Google Apps to get Drive. Then buy some other suite just to get a decent intranet. Then another suite to get some notes. Then another suite just to get the wiki. ffs
Why do you need Word and Excel? I mean lots of people need them but why do you?
Because all the non-techy people are used to Office. I only recently finally got them to stop using old copies of Office 2007. At least now they can use 2016 on O365. They will not use anything else, and threw a hissy fit when MS started pushing Office as a subscription model. They were THIS close to forcing us to keep using 2007 just because we happened to have those licenses and the software still runs fine.
MS's licensing model is such a pain. All I want is updated software, and all the boss wants is to not spend thousands of dollars upgrading when the old stuff "still works". And nothing compares to Word/Excel right now. Don't even bother telling me to try doing spreadsheets in the cloud in a web browser on Google. No chance of ever getting anybody around here to do that.
I use LibreOffice on Windows and it runs perfectly. Most users do not know the difference. Power user of course would.
I call BS - most if not ALL users would know the difference, but would they care - assuming formatting it identical, they would probably wouldn't care.
In tests that I've seen, users actually couldn't tell it wasn't MS Office. That users feel they need MS Office is something that they repeat, but rarely based on something real.
I agree with you on the point of people repeating that they need something they likely don't. But as already mentioned, the last time I looked at converting, the layouts changed drastically between MS Office and anything else, that made it a no go.
Plus, as just mentioned, we still get many quotes in doc or docx format for whatever crazy reason...
Perhaps I should just start changing pricing and submit the signed quote back to them (which is a PDF because I print and sign it.) lolYeah I hear ya. Just going to a different versions of MS Office can create weeks of work reformatting large spreadsheets for some people. I can imaging going to a completely different software.
Starting out with nothing, I'd definitely go with LO.
Although that highlights a reason to change - only go through the breakage once, instead of on a regular basis.
What regular basis? I didn't have to update my forms between MS Office versions. Arguably we should have when the format changed from doc to docx, but that's a once and done situation as well.
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@dashrender said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@dashrender said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@guyinpv said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
Theme is only part of it really. Though I really wish they would modernize.
The MS ribbon didn't get good reviews when it first came out. Anything different is immediately attacked.
But over time it makes sense, organizing groups of similar buttons and collapsing the ribbon, etc. LO and OO are still just like, 'here are 142 buttons all in rows, you're welcome'.It's less about the theme I think, and more about file compatibility. I can open Word files sent to me by others, but it's not always the case an ODF or something will be compatible with some other person's Office 2010, or that the formatting will remain the same when we send it to them even if they can open it.
Why would others send you Word files, though? Word is for collaboration, not something you'd get from the outside. And from the inside, once you've switched, the problem is solved.
Don't ask me why - but tons of vendors send word documents for quotes instead of PDFs. I tried to kill doc and docx files at our gateway - the pitch forks came out in droves!.
Have a chat with them about security, instead of about proper file formats.
LOL - they could care less about security. But it is a good place to start a conversation with someone who might. But like so many users - they would likely push back because of the perceived additional work they have to do.
Today - open template, add line items, save docx to local repo, click send file to email, email.
Tomorrow - open template, add line items, save docx to local repo (allows for future edits), save as PDF, get PDF into email, email.Sure it's not rocket science, but there is clearly a new step needed.
But you can modify the Word doc and change the quotes.
People do this, and it holds up in court. It's a hilarious trick to play.
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@scottalanmiller said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@dashrender said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@dashrender said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@guyinpv said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
Theme is only part of it really. Though I really wish they would modernize.
The MS ribbon didn't get good reviews when it first came out. Anything different is immediately attacked.
But over time it makes sense, organizing groups of similar buttons and collapsing the ribbon, etc. LO and OO are still just like, 'here are 142 buttons all in rows, you're welcome'.It's less about the theme I think, and more about file compatibility. I can open Word files sent to me by others, but it's not always the case an ODF or something will be compatible with some other person's Office 2010, or that the formatting will remain the same when we send it to them even if they can open it.
Why would others send you Word files, though? Word is for collaboration, not something you'd get from the outside. And from the inside, once you've switched, the problem is solved.
Don't ask me why - but tons of vendors send word documents for quotes instead of PDFs. I tried to kill doc and docx files at our gateway - the pitch forks came out in droves!.
Have a chat with them about security, instead of about proper file formats.
LOL - they could care less about security. But it is a good place to start a conversation with someone who might. But like so many users - they would likely push back because of the perceived additional work they have to do.
Today - open template, add line items, save docx to local repo, click send file to email, email.
Tomorrow - open template, add line items, save docx to local repo (allows for future edits), save as PDF, get PDF into email, email.Sure it's not rocket science, but there is clearly a new step needed.
But you can modify the Word doc and change the quotes.
People do this, and it holds up in court. It's a hilarious trick to play.
Yeah, assuming all they have is the signed changed document... it only take getting bit by that once for a company to change - I'm guessing.
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@dashrender said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@guyinpv said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
Theme is only part of it really. Though I really wish they would modernize.
The MS ribbon didn't get good reviews when it first came out. Anything different is immediately attacked.
But over time it makes sense, organizing groups of similar buttons and collapsing the ribbon, etc. LO and OO are still just like, 'here are 142 buttons all in rows, you're welcome'.It's less about the theme I think, and more about file compatibility. I can open Word files sent to me by others, but it's not always the case an ODF or something will be compatible with some other person's Office 2010, or that the formatting will remain the same when we send it to them even if they can open it.
Why would others send you Word files, though? Word is for collaboration, not something you'd get from the outside. And from the inside, once you've switched, the problem is solved.
Don't ask me why - but tons of vendors send word documents for quotes instead of PDFs. I tried to kill doc and docx files at our gateway - the pitch forks came out in droves!.
I've also seen quotes in html format too.
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@black3dynamite said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@dashrender said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@guyinpv said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
Theme is only part of it really. Though I really wish they would modernize.
The MS ribbon didn't get good reviews when it first came out. Anything different is immediately attacked.
But over time it makes sense, organizing groups of similar buttons and collapsing the ribbon, etc. LO and OO are still just like, 'here are 142 buttons all in rows, you're welcome'.It's less about the theme I think, and more about file compatibility. I can open Word files sent to me by others, but it's not always the case an ODF or something will be compatible with some other person's Office 2010, or that the formatting will remain the same when we send it to them even if they can open it.
Why would others send you Word files, though? Word is for collaboration, not something you'd get from the outside. And from the inside, once you've switched, the problem is solved.
Don't ask me why - but tons of vendors send word documents for quotes instead of PDFs. I tried to kill doc and docx files at our gateway - the pitch forks came out in droves!.
I've also seen quotes in html format too.
lol - yeah, vendors who use changable formats just amaze me!!!
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I’ve tried hard pushing LO in my own company, and the result was like that:
- Power users cannot do some tricky stuff with pivot tables and macros, so they eventually switch back to office;
- Basic users need to open common files with the power users, so it was a big mess of weird formatting, formulas not working etc.
- Customers sometime submits spreadsheets that won’t work on LO.
After two years, I just give up and give o365 to everyone. Maybe a company made of just tech peoples exchanging mails only with other techie can use efficiently LO or even a custom LaTeX template, pure markdown etc, but real companies aren’t like that.
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@francesco-provino said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
pivot tables and macros
That crap should be in a database. I effing hate Excel.
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@stacksofplates said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@francesco-provino said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
pivot tables and macros
That crap should be in a database. I effing hate Excel.
I'm always amazed by this, too. How often does it really make sense to have big complicated spreadsheets on desktops? I mean there must be use cases, but it always seems like a bad idea.
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@scottalanmiller said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@stacksofplates said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@francesco-provino said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
pivot tables and macros
That crap should be in a database. I effing hate Excel.
I'm always amazed by this, too. How often does it really make sense to have big complicated spreadsheets on desktops? I mean there must be use cases, but it always
seems likeis a bad idea.FTFY
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@francesco-provino said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
- Basic users need to open common files with the power users, so it was a
My users do not have any issues. LO and MS Office can open each other's native file formats transparently.
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@jaredbusch said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
@francesco-provino said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
- Basic users need to open common files with the power users, so it was a
My users do not have any issues. LO and MS Office can open each other's native file formats transparently.
Also if you have to force the issue, there are settings for that. Turn off the warning, and change the default file format to MS versions. Done.
Anyone bitching otherwise for anything but power users doesn't know what they are talking about.
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What? Some of our content is not supported in the ODF file format. And of course we cannot have a double standard.
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Say what you like, we all have preferences. I really like MS Office. LO and OO feel like Win95 apps to me.
And pivot tables and macros are not only DB things. They are quite handy for many purposes, here are a couple of my own use cases.
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Data is not uniform and standardized. We get data as outputs from web apps, product vendors, financial reports, and don't have a say in how other people's data is stored.
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I need a way for non-techy people to basically import->print report. I can use Excel's many data connection tools to import any of these data sources and format them as best as possible.
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Macros can perform more advanced data manipulation tasks like converting values, calculating and combining fields, renaming columns and moving them around, create summaries, and setting up a printable template.
As a nerd, I can work with whatever data I need. I have MySQL installed on my desktop and I often create custom tables for stuff and my own data collecting, but I can't expect others to do the same. Their tools have to be point and click easy, and I don't have time to create custom web apps and desktop apps and databases for it when Excel and some VBA do it just fine.
Since we're in ecommerce, we definitely get all kinds of archaic looking documents from old versions of MS. I even have one data source where they literally do CSV for the column headings and immediately do TSV for the following values, Excel can't even parse that, it uses two different separators in the same file!
The only way out of that is custom code to parse it properly. VBA is pretty strong at it. -
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@guyinpv said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
Say what you like, we all have preferences. I really like MS Office. LO and OO feel like Win95 apps to me.
Do you feel that way about the Ribbon interface on it, too?
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@guyinpv said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
Data is not uniform and standardized. We get data as outputs from web apps, product vendors, financial reports, and don't have a say in how other people's data is stored.
And Excel is the worst format to try to put that in. I'd bet $20 that most of that isn't in xlsx by default. Esp from a web app. That's 99% likely to be retrieved from an API and when you export it from the site, it comes out in CSV format.
Macros can perform more advanced data manipulation tasks like converting values, calculating and combining fields, renaming columns and moving them around, create summaries, and setting up a printable template.
Which is exactly what a database application would do.
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@stacksofplates said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
Which is exactly what a database application would do.
But you're still missing the middle man. Who cares if I have a DB application? I do, I have Access and I have MySQL but that means nothing, I still have to convert the data to a format even acceptable by those, and useful for our own business logic.
If I don't do these macros and scripts in Excel, that's fine, but now I just have to do the same thing somewhere else for no real benefit.
And even if I used Access, nobody else knows how to use DB apps. I would have to set up forms and front end views for others to look and edit, which actually creates more workload for me.
Sometimes we sacrifice the "best" and the "ideal" for quick and productive.
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@guyinpv said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
And even if I used Access, nobody else knows how to use DB apps.
I don't understand. They'd learn to use them just like any other app. No one knows an app until they use it. Nothing is easier than making an app for it, if made properly. Surely this would be the solution, not the problem.
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@guyinpv said in Looking for some neat Server Build Projects:
Sometimes we sacrifice the "best" and the "ideal" for quick and productive.
But often they are the same thing and we just don't realize. I see things like this often where "best" is avoided because of the assumption that it is costly or hard, when it is often "best" specifically because it is fast, easy and cheap.
Maybe not here, but I see this more often than not.
