Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?
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@Dashrender said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
@NetworkNerd said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
It all depends on the RTO you need to hit. But to the points being made here, the RTO may be different depending on the applications in your environment. Maybe the ERP system and its SQL database are all that need to come back within 1 hour of going down but the file server's RTO could be closer to 2 or 3 hours.
We talk about RTO and RPO, but I bet you in most places those are not clearly defined down to the VM / application level. If they are and you've planned accordingly, bravo.
I had an RTO of 4 days approved by the board for our EHR 10 years ago - I couldn't believe it when they said that was fine.
That's insane. Did you ever have to hand it back to them after a disaster? "Hey, this is what you said was acceptable, folks."
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@Dashrender said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
@NetworkNerd said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
It all depends on the RTO you need to hit. But to the points being made here, the RTO may be different depending on the applications in your environment. Maybe the ERP system and its SQL database are all that need to come back within 1 hour of going down but the file server's RTO could be closer to 2 or 3 hours.
We talk about RTO and RPO, but I bet you in most places those are not clearly defined down to the VM / application level. If they are and you've planned accordingly, bravo.
I had an RTO of 4 days approved by the board for our EHR 10 years ago - I couldn't believe it when they said that was fine.
wat
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@Dashrender said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
@NetworkNerd said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
It all depends on the RTO you need to hit. But to the points being made here, the RTO may be different depending on the applications in your environment. Maybe the ERP system and its SQL database are all that need to come back within 1 hour of going down but the file server's RTO could be closer to 2 or 3 hours.
We talk about RTO and RPO, but I bet you in most places those are not clearly defined down to the VM / application level. If they are and you've planned accordingly, bravo.
I had an RTO of 4 days approved by the board for our EHR 10 years ago - I couldn't believe it when they said that was fine.
I'm just going to assume you can hit a target of less than 4 days by now.
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@wirestyle22 said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
@Dashrender said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
@NetworkNerd said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
It all depends on the RTO you need to hit. But to the points being made here, the RTO may be different depending on the applications in your environment. Maybe the ERP system and its SQL database are all that need to come back within 1 hour of going down but the file server's RTO could be closer to 2 or 3 hours.
We talk about RTO and RPO, but I bet you in most places those are not clearly defined down to the VM / application level. If they are and you've planned accordingly, bravo.
I had an RTO of 4 days approved by the board for our EHR 10 years ago - I couldn't believe it when they said that was fine.
Other than a board inappropriately getting involved with details they should know nothing about, the final decision is very sensible. What SMB needs all systems restored in less than four days? Almost none. SOme, certainly, but not the average.
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@NetworkNerd said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
@Dashrender said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
@NetworkNerd said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
It all depends on the RTO you need to hit. But to the points being made here, the RTO may be different depending on the applications in your environment. Maybe the ERP system and its SQL database are all that need to come back within 1 hour of going down but the file server's RTO could be closer to 2 or 3 hours.
We talk about RTO and RPO, but I bet you in most places those are not clearly defined down to the VM / application level. If they are and you've planned accordingly, bravo.
I had an RTO of 4 days approved by the board for our EHR 10 years ago - I couldn't believe it when they said that was fine.
That's insane. Did you ever have to hand it back to them after a disaster? "Hey, this is what you said was acceptable, folks."
yep - they were fortunate, they never had to suffer a real 4 day outage - but after 2-3 four hour outages, I revisited the 4 day thing, they changed their tune. We still didn't drop to a solution that was less than 4 hours for catastrophic, but things did get better.
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All a function of time and need and money.
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@scottalanmiller said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
@wirestyle22 said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
@Dashrender said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
@NetworkNerd said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
It all depends on the RTO you need to hit. But to the points being made here, the RTO may be different depending on the applications in your environment. Maybe the ERP system and its SQL database are all that need to come back within 1 hour of going down but the file server's RTO could be closer to 2 or 3 hours.
We talk about RTO and RPO, but I bet you in most places those are not clearly defined down to the VM / application level. If they are and you've planned accordingly, bravo.
I had an RTO of 4 days approved by the board for our EHR 10 years ago - I couldn't believe it when they said that was fine.
Other than a board inappropriately getting involved with details they should know nothing about, the final decision is very sensible. What SMB needs all systems restored in less than four days? Almost none. SOme, certainly, but not the average.
We have these numbers of what it costs us to do something - though those numbers mostly don't exist for things like internal paperwork. i.e. EHR is down, fall back to paper - now imput that paper into the EHR (and not just scans of the paper - actual data entry). That data entry is the actual cost to us of downtime for the most part. We can still see patients in most cases in the clinic - surgeries of course stop.
So yeah, having this system down for four days would have been bad.
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@Dashrender said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
@scottalanmiller said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
@wirestyle22 said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
@Dashrender said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
@NetworkNerd said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
It all depends on the RTO you need to hit. But to the points being made here, the RTO may be different depending on the applications in your environment. Maybe the ERP system and its SQL database are all that need to come back within 1 hour of going down but the file server's RTO could be closer to 2 or 3 hours.
We talk about RTO and RPO, but I bet you in most places those are not clearly defined down to the VM / application level. If they are and you've planned accordingly, bravo.
I had an RTO of 4 days approved by the board for our EHR 10 years ago - I couldn't believe it when they said that was fine.
Other than a board inappropriately getting involved with details they should know nothing about, the final decision is very sensible. What SMB needs all systems restored in less than four days? Almost none. SOme, certainly, but not the average.
We have these numbers of what it costs us to do something - though those numbers mostly don't exist for things like internal paperwork. i.e. EHR is down, fall back to paper - now imput that paper into the EHR (and not just scans of the paper - actual data entry). That data entry is the actual cost to us of downtime for the most part. We can still see patients in most cases in the clinic - surgeries of course stop.
So yeah, having this system down for four days would have been bad.
But, if the math is sound that arrived at the 4 day limit, it may not be as critical as it seems connotatively.
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@Dashrender said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
@NetworkNerd said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
@Dashrender said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
@NetworkNerd said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
It all depends on the RTO you need to hit. But to the points being made here, the RTO may be different depending on the applications in your environment. Maybe the ERP system and its SQL database are all that need to come back within 1 hour of going down but the file server's RTO could be closer to 2 or 3 hours.
We talk about RTO and RPO, but I bet you in most places those are not clearly defined down to the VM / application level. If they are and you've planned accordingly, bravo.
I had an RTO of 4 days approved by the board for our EHR 10 years ago - I couldn't believe it when they said that was fine.
That's insane. Did you ever have to hand it back to them after a disaster? "Hey, this is what you said was acceptable, folks."
yep - they were fortunate, they never had to suffer a real 4 day outage - but after 2-3 four hour outages, I revisited the 4 day thing, they changed their tune. We still didn't drop to a solution that was less than 4 hours for catastrophic, but things did get better.
So they didn't calculate correctly? Did they figure out the initial mistakes in their financial numbers? How did they get their financial numbers so far off?
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@BRRABill said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
All a function of time and need and money.
Only time and money, need in a business is always a function of money.
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@Dashrender said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
@scottalanmiller said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
@wirestyle22 said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
@Dashrender said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
@NetworkNerd said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
It all depends on the RTO you need to hit. But to the points being made here, the RTO may be different depending on the applications in your environment. Maybe the ERP system and its SQL database are all that need to come back within 1 hour of going down but the file server's RTO could be closer to 2 or 3 hours.
We talk about RTO and RPO, but I bet you in most places those are not clearly defined down to the VM / application level. If they are and you've planned accordingly, bravo.
I had an RTO of 4 days approved by the board for our EHR 10 years ago - I couldn't believe it when they said that was fine.
Other than a board inappropriately getting involved with details they should know nothing about, the final decision is very sensible. What SMB needs all systems restored in less than four days? Almost none. SOme, certainly, but not the average.
We have these numbers of what it costs us to do something - though those numbers mostly don't exist for things like internal paperwork. i.e. EHR is down, fall back to paper - now imput that paper into the EHR (and not just scans of the paper - actual data entry). That data entry is the actual cost to us of downtime for the most part. We can still see patients in most cases in the clinic - surgeries of course stop.
So yeah, having this system down for four days would have been bad.
And the board didn't know or care enough about the business to know that?
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@art_of_shred said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
@Dashrender said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
@scottalanmiller said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
@wirestyle22 said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
@Dashrender said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
@NetworkNerd said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
It all depends on the RTO you need to hit. But to the points being made here, the RTO may be different depending on the applications in your environment. Maybe the ERP system and its SQL database are all that need to come back within 1 hour of going down but the file server's RTO could be closer to 2 or 3 hours.
We talk about RTO and RPO, but I bet you in most places those are not clearly defined down to the VM / application level. If they are and you've planned accordingly, bravo.
I had an RTO of 4 days approved by the board for our EHR 10 years ago - I couldn't believe it when they said that was fine.
Other than a board inappropriately getting involved with details they should know nothing about, the final decision is very sensible. What SMB needs all systems restored in less than four days? Almost none. SOme, certainly, but not the average.
We have these numbers of what it costs us to do something - though those numbers mostly don't exist for things like internal paperwork. i.e. EHR is down, fall back to paper - now imput that paper into the EHR (and not just scans of the paper - actual data entry). That data entry is the actual cost to us of downtime for the most part. We can still see patients in most cases in the clinic - surgeries of course stop.
So yeah, having this system down for four days would have been bad.
But, if the math is sound that arrived at the 4 day limit, it may not be as critical as it seems connotatively.
Damn, someone downvoted this? WTH? Art's absolutely right!
In my situation the cost of shorting it to a day was significantly less expensive than the financial and reputation costs involved. Something they didn't consider when making the original choice.
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@scottalanmiller said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
@Dashrender said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
@NetworkNerd said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
@Dashrender said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
@NetworkNerd said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
It all depends on the RTO you need to hit. But to the points being made here, the RTO may be different depending on the applications in your environment. Maybe the ERP system and its SQL database are all that need to come back within 1 hour of going down but the file server's RTO could be closer to 2 or 3 hours.
We talk about RTO and RPO, but I bet you in most places those are not clearly defined down to the VM / application level. If they are and you've planned accordingly, bravo.
I had an RTO of 4 days approved by the board for our EHR 10 years ago - I couldn't believe it when they said that was fine.
That's insane. Did you ever have to hand it back to them after a disaster? "Hey, this is what you said was acceptable, folks."
yep - they were fortunate, they never had to suffer a real 4 day outage - but after 2-3 four hour outages, I revisited the 4 day thing, they changed their tune. We still didn't drop to a solution that was less than 4 hours for catastrophic, but things did get better.
So they didn't calculate correctly? Did they figure out the initial mistakes in their financial numbers? How did they get their financial numbers so far off?
If you have to ask, I think you know the answer.
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@Dashrender said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
@art_of_shred said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
@Dashrender said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
@scottalanmiller said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
@wirestyle22 said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
@Dashrender said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
@NetworkNerd said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
It all depends on the RTO you need to hit. But to the points being made here, the RTO may be different depending on the applications in your environment. Maybe the ERP system and its SQL database are all that need to come back within 1 hour of going down but the file server's RTO could be closer to 2 or 3 hours.
We talk about RTO and RPO, but I bet you in most places those are not clearly defined down to the VM / application level. If they are and you've planned accordingly, bravo.
I had an RTO of 4 days approved by the board for our EHR 10 years ago - I couldn't believe it when they said that was fine.
Other than a board inappropriately getting involved with details they should know nothing about, the final decision is very sensible. What SMB needs all systems restored in less than four days? Almost none. SOme, certainly, but not the average.
We have these numbers of what it costs us to do something - though those numbers mostly don't exist for things like internal paperwork. i.e. EHR is down, fall back to paper - now imput that paper into the EHR (and not just scans of the paper - actual data entry). That data entry is the actual cost to us of downtime for the most part. We can still see patients in most cases in the clinic - surgeries of course stop.
So yeah, having this system down for four days would have been bad.
But, if the math is sound that arrived at the 4 day limit, it may not be as critical as it seems connotatively.
Damn, someone downvoted this? WTH? Art's absolutely right!
In my situation the cost of shorting it to a day was significantly less expensive than the financial and reputation costs involved. Something they didn't consider when making the original choice.
I meant to upvote it, and clicked to quick without looking
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@Dashrender said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
In my situation the cost of shorting it to a day was significantly less expensive than the financial and reputation costs involved. Something they didn't consider when making the original choice.
But those are the only factors to consider. What did they do, exactly, if not the only thing that they were there to do?
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@Dashrender said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
@scottalanmiller said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
@Dashrender said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
@NetworkNerd said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
@Dashrender said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
@NetworkNerd said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
It all depends on the RTO you need to hit. But to the points being made here, the RTO may be different depending on the applications in your environment. Maybe the ERP system and its SQL database are all that need to come back within 1 hour of going down but the file server's RTO could be closer to 2 or 3 hours.
We talk about RTO and RPO, but I bet you in most places those are not clearly defined down to the VM / application level. If they are and you've planned accordingly, bravo.
I had an RTO of 4 days approved by the board for our EHR 10 years ago - I couldn't believe it when they said that was fine.
That's insane. Did you ever have to hand it back to them after a disaster? "Hey, this is what you said was acceptable, folks."
yep - they were fortunate, they never had to suffer a real 4 day outage - but after 2-3 four hour outages, I revisited the 4 day thing, they changed their tune. We still didn't drop to a solution that was less than 4 hours for catastrophic, but things did get better.
So they didn't calculate correctly? Did they figure out the initial mistakes in their financial numbers? How did they get their financial numbers so far off?
If you have to ask, I think you know the answer.
So they struggle with math?
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@scottalanmiller said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
@BRRABill said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
All a function of time and need and money.
Only time and money, need in a business is always a function of money.
Yeah, anything a business is using to make business continuity related decisions that isn't a function of time and money is a blatant example of why the responsible parties shouldn't be in charge of making business decisions.
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@scottalanmiller said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
@BRRABill said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
All a function of time and need and money.
Only time and money, need in a business is always a function of money.
I mean all of them combine.
You are correct.
Need dictates the other two.
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@BRRABill said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
@scottalanmiller said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
@BRRABill said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:
All a function of time and need and money.
Only time and money, need in a business is always a function of money.
I mean all of them combine.
You are correct.
Need dictates the other two.
Well, the other two dictate need. Businesses aren't a "need" based thing. They have a goal: profits. Backup restore time is a discussion about time. So the technical piece gives us the time axis and that we are talking about a business gives us a cost one. That's it. The idea of "need" should never really come up in a business, businesses never need to do anything. They desire profits and all actions should reflect that. The concept of needs only serves to confuse people from the singular mission.
