App Store users can bring antitrust lawsuit against Apple
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@stacksofplates said in App Store users can bring antitrust lawsuit against Apple:
@scottalanmiller said in App Store users can bring antitrust lawsuit against Apple:
@stacksofplates said in App Store users can bring antitrust lawsuit against Apple:
@JaredBusch said in App Store users can bring antitrust lawsuit against Apple:
Umm WTF?
https://www.cnet.com/news/app-store-users-can-bring-an-antitrust-lawsuit-against-apple/
The 9th US Circuit Court of Appeals decided Thursday that iPhone app purchasers can sue Apple on the claim that the App Store monopolizes the iPhone apps market, leading to higher prices for apps.
Umm the app creator can charge whatever they want.
But yet areas where we need free market are forced to be monopolized by government regulations and red tape.
But the store is a single avenue for buying it. So it remains a monopoly. Apple controls the prices and controls the percentage that they earn and there is no competition for it.
If by control prices you mean the developer has to choose a price point in increments of a dollar, then I guess they control it but the dev can sell it for any price under $999.
No one is arguing that it isn't a monopoly. And I'm not even arguing that monopolies are necessarily bad.
Apple controls the prices by not allowing competition. They don't SET the price, they CONTROL the price. In any other market, this is considered price controlling. There is no open market competition to drive down price, that's price setting and it's monopoly. And Apple controls how much Apple makes, there is no free market around that, either.
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@stacksofplates said in App Store users can bring antitrust lawsuit against Apple:
No one is arguing that it isn't a monopoly. And I'm not even arguing that monopolies are always necessarily bad.
The nature of a monopoly makes price setting unavoidable. Apple may not be the final setter of the specific price, but they are the authority making it the only price, ergo the price controller.
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Another way to think of it is... if I ask the developer for a lower price, can they give me one? If not, it's not the developer setting the price. Apple is controlling the price at the end of the day. I pay Apple and no one else, Apple is setting the price. How Apple sets the price behind the scenes is not part of the monopoly price control equation. It's that Apple sets the final price and controls it.
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They don't SET the price, they CONTROL the price.
It's that Apple sets the final price and controls it.
Again as I said, no one is arguing with you. I don't know why you are trying to argue.
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@stacksofplates said in App Store users can bring antitrust lawsuit against Apple:
They don't SET the price, they CONTROL the price.
It's that Apple sets the final price and controls it.
Again as I said, no one is arguing with you. I don't know why you are trying to argue.
You were saying that the dev sets the price, which they do. But I was trying to demonstrate why the idea of price setting is not affected by the dev setting the final price on the back end. The dev might be involved in collusion, but the "price setting" problem that you can sue for is one that Apple is involved in, even when a dev somewhere decides what the price that Apple will set, is.
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9th circuit is a joke. Always has been.
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@art_of_shred said in App Store users can bring antitrust lawsuit against Apple:
9th circuit is a joke. Always has been.
80% turnover for cases appealed all the way to Supreme Court.
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@art_of_shred said in App Store users can bring antitrust lawsuit against Apple:
9th circus is a joke. Always has been.
ftfy
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@travisdh1 said in App Store users can bring antitrust lawsuit against Apple:
@art_of_shred said in App Store users can bring antitrust lawsuit against Apple:
9th circus is a joke. Always has been.
ftfy
thank you. I stand corrected.
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Not really seeing how this is a monopoly as you can still go out and buy an android phone or and windows phone and not be bothered by Apple's App Store.Say you wanted to buy a car, but there was only one manufacturer (GM), then, yes, that would be a monopoly as you wouldn't be able to purchase Ford or Toyota. But since Ford and Toyota and Kia and Tesla and everybody else is able to sell their products, then its not a monopoly.
Same case here. We all choose to go with either Apple or Android or Windows or Whatever. We're not monopolized into buying Apple and therefore buying their Apps.
I don't see a lot of credibility here.
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@NerdyDad said in App Store users can bring antitrust lawsuit against Apple:
Not really seeing how this is a monopoly as you can still go out and buy an android phone or and windows phone and not be bothered by Apple's App Store.Anti-trust in the US is not by whether you can buy something else but by whether or not people do or there are enough alternatives. The iPhone market is so large that controlling access to it is considered price setting or anti-trust. The Windows phones isn't viable, at all. Android is viable, but not to a lot of us - it's not stable enough. iPhone is literally the only phone stable enough for many of us on the market - that's a monopoly. Products like this are so expensive to make that the guy down the street from you cannot just enter the market, only a handful of enormous companies can do so and of the three giants that have done it, only two have succeeded and they are not directly competitive. It's very much a monopoly in the meaningful sense.
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@NerdyDad said in App Store users can bring antitrust lawsuit against Apple:
Say you wanted to buy a car, but there was only one manufacturer (GM), then, yes, that would be a monopoly as you wouldn't be able to purchase Ford or Toyota. But since Ford and Toyota and Kia and Tesla and everybody else is able to sell their products, then its not a monopoly.
Great example, and even with the variety of choices available there, the US considered GM alone to be so extensive in the marketplace that they were governed by anti-trust (monopoly) rules even with so many alternatives. Was that right? Probably not, it definitely make the Japanese carmakers able to get into the US market in a way that GM could not. Kodak was never alone they always had Agfa (Germany), Fujifilm (Japan) and 3M (USA) on the market with them, but they commanded so much mind share that they were considered a monopoly (to be ethical, Fujifilm refused to ever leverage that advantage and only competed toe to toe with Kodak, they had great respect for each other.)
So the expectations of business history make Apple far more of a monopoly than other major companies governed by monopoly laws in the past.
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@scottalanmiller said in App Store users can bring antitrust lawsuit against Apple:
to be ethical, Fujifilm refused to ever leverage that advantage and only competed toe to toe with Kodak, they had great respect for each other.
Interesting.
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Quick question: Aren't there more Android phones than iPhones? I would think that if I was a lawyer for Apple, I would bring that up and maybe play the "we are the small guys here in comparison" as silly as that sounds LOL.
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@wirestyle22 said in App Store users can bring antitrust lawsuit against Apple:
@scottalanmiller said in App Store users can bring antitrust lawsuit against Apple:
to be ethical, Fujifilm refused to ever leverage that advantage and only competed toe to toe with Kodak, they had great respect for each other.
Interesting.
Yeah, even growing up in Rochester, NY... the home of Kodak (and 3M Film, too) Fujifilm was very respected even if seen as the local nemesis. So much so, that when Fujifilm came to the US they put their offices... in Rochester! @dominica started her IT career with Fujifilm, in fact. And I started mine with Kodak.
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@Son-of-Jor-El said in App Store users can bring antitrust lawsuit against Apple:
Quick question: Aren't there more Android phones than iPhones? I would think that if I was a lawyer for Apple, I would bring that up and maybe play the "we are the small guys here in comparison" as silly as that sounds LOL.
Same with GM, they were never the majority of the market, but it didn't matter. Having the most isn't needed for anti-trust to kick in.
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@scottalanmiller said in App Store users can bring antitrust lawsuit against Apple:
@dominica started her IT career with Fujifilm, in fact. And I started mine with Kodak.
This sounds like an episode of Mr. & Mrs. Smith waiting to happen...
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@scottalanmiller said in App Store users can bring antitrust lawsuit against Apple:
@Son-of-Jor-El said in App Store users can bring antitrust lawsuit against Apple:
Quick question: Aren't there more Android phones than iPhones? I would think that if I was a lawyer for Apple, I would bring that up and maybe play the "we are the small guys here in comparison" as silly as that sounds LOL.
Same with GM, they were never the majority of the market, but it didn't matter. Having the most isn't needed for anti-trust to kick in.
and it shouldn't be needed. If you're looking for a hammer and you find one hammer and ten turds, it doesn't really matter the different types of turds you can purchase. A turd doesn't help you.
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Don't think of monopoly laws (they are NOT monopoly laws, they are anti-trust, monopoly is the uninformed masses term for them) as about being the sole competitor in the market, they are about controlling enough of the market to "overly influence market prices outside of a free market situation."
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@scottalanmiller said in App Store users can bring antitrust lawsuit against Apple:
Don't think of monopoly laws (they are NOT monopoly laws, they are anti-trust, monopoly is the uninformed masses term for them) as about being the sole competitor in the market, they are about controlling enough of the market to "overly influence market prices outside of a free market situation."
Kinda like the NFL LOL
