Linux File Server. Which One Would You Pick?
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@BRRABill said in Linux File Server. Which One Would You Pick?:
@scottalanmiller said
Recommends is not the same as requires. And your logic is why I chose not to use CentOS for web hosting, not why I decided to use it. I'm not in any way saying that CentOS is bad, or that the choice to use it and get PHP separately is bad - only that the logic around choosing CentOS in the first place breaks in this scenario so I find it an odd choice.
And what is that logic?
The reason that CentOS is chosen normally is the incredibly level of testing and long term support. No distro has the level of integrated testing and great patching and security mindedness and detailed compatibility testing as CentOS. It's value comes from using the OS as it is, because it is supported and tested as a unit. To get this incredible stability you must give up having the latest features.
Once you start not using CentOS in those ways but start pulling out the tested, integrated components and putting in different ones from different sources you are giving up everything that was mentioned. Everything. Once you are breaking your "uniformity" the value of having chosen CentOS drops to essentially zero compared to other things. It's still a good distro, but you aren't using it in a way that reflects its value proposition.
Your resulting CentOS is now a unique snowflake against which essentially no one, and especially not Red Hat, is testing for stability and compatibility. You are no longer getting the "all the work is done for you" benefits. You are now on your own.
Going, for example, to Fedora gets you back to that fully integrated and tested world (but without the long term aspect) but with ALL packages being updated, not just one, and with all the work done for you. So the logic that makes CentOS make sense is removed and the logic of updating PHP is taken even farther. Instead of extra work to get CentOS to PHP 7, you get zero effort to get Fedora to 7.1. Instead of only PHP being updated, the entire system is updated. Instead of being partially tested and partially not, it is all tested.
With what you are doing, Fedora represents, IMHO, closer to the answer that the logic that originally suggested CentOS was caused by. Using the same decision making, but with your desire to have the latest packages, should bring you to something other than CentOS.
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@scottalanmiller said in Linux File Server. Which One Would You Pick?:
@BRRABill said in Linux File Server. Which One Would You Pick?:
@scottalanmiller said
Recommends is not the same as requires. And your logic is why I chose not to use CentOS for web hosting, not why I decided to use it. I'm not in any way saying that CentOS is bad, or that the choice to use it and get PHP separately is bad - only that the logic around choosing CentOS in the first place breaks in this scenario so I find it an odd choice.
And what is that logic?
snip long reply
While this is all very true, Fedora comes with its own issues. The cost of having it up to date means a major OS update ever 3 months (i believe).
PHP in Remi is not officially tested, that is true. But after all of these years it has been proven reliable. Also Remi is a contributor to some of the upstream work and what he puts in his repo for PHP is often what ends up coming down later.
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@JaredBusch said in Linux File Server. Which One Would You Pick?:
While this is all very true, Fedora comes with its own issues. The cost of having it up to date means a major OS update ever 3 months (i believe).
Six, but it is an average, unlike Ubuntu, so it fluctuates. Three months here, nine months there. But twice a year average.
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Ubuntu Server :
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Automated Security updates are easy to implement.
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ufw is pleasure to work with.
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@msff-amman-Itofficer said in Linux File Server. Which One Would You Pick?:
Ubuntu Server :
- Automated Security updates are easy to implement.
Easier than CentOS and Fedora?
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@JaredBusch said in Linux File Server. Which One Would You Pick?:
@BRRABill said in Linux File Server. Which One Would You Pick?:
@JaredBusch said in Linux File Server. Which One Would You Pick?:
@BRRABill said in Linux File Server. Which One Would You Pick?:
@JaredBusch said in Linux File Server. Which One Would You Pick?:
@BRRABill said in Linux File Server. Which One Would You Pick?:
@travisdh1 said in Linux File Server. Which One Would You Pick?:
@BRRABill said in Linux File Server. Which One Would You Pick?:
@scottalanmiller said in Linux File Server. Which One Would You Pick?:
CentOS. Because there is no compelling reason to look at anything else and by default I always start there - it's the best known, most stable, best supported. So unless you have a specific reason to look elsewhere, that's what you use IMHO.
So @scottalanmiller and I were discussing offline the new Liuns server I set up for hosting my own web server.
After this who thread, of course I went with CentOS. I mean, after the above quote, why would anyone choose anything different.
Of course, @scottalanmiller says he uses Fedora for web servers. It would be silly to use anything else.
I of course, say WTF, yell to no one in particular that this is why Linux is so frustrating and confusing, and refer back to this thread, and also the thread he mentions all the distributions, and doesn't even mention Fedora.
So, ML, discuss! Is Fedora the best choice for web servers? Is this thread (where it is said CentOS is the clear choice) misleading? (Feel free to fork this if necessary.)
I'm a CentOS junkie, and I admit that fact. See, I'm at step #1.
Fedora is where RedHat/CentOS think it will be headed. The major reason for using Fedora over CentOS for a web server right now is that CentOS has an old version of PHP in their repository (5.4), whereas Fedora has a newer version. I'm not sure what version they're up to tho, is it still the 5.x series or 7 now?
I actually figured out how to update that yesterday. I should post that on the "WP on Centos" article @JaredBusch wrote.
I had a few small issues (with a ZIP program) that @scottalanmiller helped me figure out.
There are three real ways to update PHP beyond 5.4 on CentOS 7
I personally prefer to use the Remi repository as that is specifically for PHP only and it replaces everything 'in place'. The other methods leave you with multiple version of PHP installed. and you install them specifically as
yum install php56for example.For beginners with only a single app running on a VM, it is silly complication. I understand why it is done, but the people that just want to run a website (WordPress) or file share (NextCloud) do not care or need to care about all that IMO.
Yeah, I ran into that issue. I didn't use Remi, and it was causing my theme to have all sorts of issues. I gave up, and restored a snapshot I took riiiiiiiiiiight before I started messing with PHP. (Love VMs.)
I found this, was awesomely helpful.
or you could have looked here first..
https://mangolassi.it/tags/remiright at the top of the NextCloud post....
#install Remi yum install -y http://rpms.famillecollet.com/enterprise/remi-release-7.rpm #enable PHP 7.1 by editing the repo file and changing enabled=0 to 1 yum-config-manager --enable remi-php71I would have had to know what to look for first!
Think it makes sense to add that somewhere in you WP writeup, as well?
WordPress may recommend PHP7 but unless it is required, my guide stands as is. What happened that caused you to want PHP > 5.4
My theme (which displays a status page) pointed it out as below WordPress recommendations.
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@scottalanmiller said in Linux File Server. Which One Would You Pick?:
@msff-amman-Itofficer said in Linux File Server. Which One Would You Pick?:
Ubuntu Server :
- Automated Security updates are easy to implement.
Easier than CentOS and Fedora?
My experience has the updates always asking odd questions I don't see on other distributions.
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@JaredBusch said
The cost of having it up to date means a major OS update ever 3 months (i believe).
Not being funny, but is that an issue?
I assume it depends on what you are doing, right?
Like on a one site WP install, you could snapshot, do the install, and just roll back.
But obviously there are many scenarios it could become a big deal.
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@BRRABill said in Linux File Server. Which One Would You Pick?:
@scottalanmiller said in Linux File Server. Which One Would You Pick?:
@msff-amman-Itofficer said in Linux File Server. Which One Would You Pick?:
Ubuntu Server :
- Automated Security updates are easy to implement.
Easier than CentOS and Fedora?
My experience has the updates always asking odd questions I don't see on other distributions.
Yeah, I find Ubuntu updates much more work and less obvious than any other. Poor updates is actually one of my complaints about it.
Unlike CentOS, RHEL, Fedora... Ubuntu requires two steps instead of one for normal update and it leaves all kinds of crap behind and when you use its tools to clean that up it breaks a bit too often. And I'm not sure how automation is easier, that's what I'm wondering about because automation on non-Ubuntu is SO good.
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@BRRABill said in Linux File Server. Which One Would You Pick?:
@JaredBusch said
The cost of having it up to date means a major OS update ever 3 months (i believe).
Not being funny, but is that an issue?
I assume it depends on what you are doing, right?
Like on a one site WP install, you could snapshot, do the install, and just roll back.
But obviously there are many scenarios it could become a big deal.
I actually prefer it because I like the smaller changes that come with the shorter cycle. Fewer huge changes all at once so if something needs to be fixed, it is more likely to be small and easier to find.
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@scottalanmiller said in Linux File Server. Which One Would You Pick?:
@BRRABill said in Linux File Server. Which One Would You Pick?:
@scottalanmiller said in Linux File Server. Which One Would You Pick?:
@msff-amman-Itofficer said in Linux File Server. Which One Would You Pick?:
Ubuntu Server :
- Automated Security updates are easy to implement.
Easier than CentOS and Fedora?
My experience has the updates always asking odd questions I don't see on other distributions.
Yeah, I find Ubuntu updates much more work and less obvious than any other. Poor updates is actually one of my complaints about it.
Unlike CentOS, RHEL, Fedora... Ubuntu requires two steps instead of one for normal update and it leaves all kinds of crap behind and when you use its tools to clean that up it breaks a bit too often. And I'm not sure how automation is easier, that's what I'm wondering about because automation on non-Ubuntu is SO good.
Since I started with Ubuntu, I keep expecting there to be two steps in CentOS as well!
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Automating normal updates with CentOS is as easy as installing and configuring
yum-cron
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@JaredBusch said in Linux File Server. Which One Would You Pick?:
Automating normal updates with CentOS is as easy as installing and configuring
yum-cronAnd Fedora just replaced that with its DNF equivalent. Just as easy, too.
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@scottalanmiller said in Linux File Server. Which One Would You Pick?:
@JaredBusch said in Linux File Server. Which One Would You Pick?:
While this is all very true, Fedora comes with its own issues. The cost of having it up to date means a major OS update ever 3 months (i believe).
Six, but it is an average, unlike Ubuntu, so it fluctuates. Three months here, nine months there. But twice a year average.
I don't see this as a negative to using Fedora?
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@FATeknollogee said in Linux File Server. Which One Would You Pick?:
@scottalanmiller said in Linux File Server. Which One Would You Pick?:
@JaredBusch said in Linux File Server. Which One Would You Pick?:
While this is all very true, Fedora comes with its own issues. The cost of having it up to date means a major OS update ever 3 months (i believe).
Six, but it is an average, unlike Ubuntu, so it fluctuates. Three months here, nine months there. But twice a year average.
I don't see this as a negative to using Fedora?
That is a point of view. It is a negative to me. Because so much can change and break things. Yes, it is smaller incremental changes compared to CentOS going from 4 to 5 to 6 to 7. But any of those little changes could break things because some dependency changed or something else.
I choose CentOS specifically because almost nothing changes.
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@JaredBusch said in Linux File Server. Which One Would You Pick?:
@FATeknollogee said in Linux File Server. Which One Would You Pick?:
@scottalanmiller said in Linux File Server. Which One Would You Pick?:
@JaredBusch said in Linux File Server. Which One Would You Pick?:
While this is all very true, Fedora comes with its own issues. The cost of having it up to date means a major OS update ever 3 months (i believe).
Six, but it is an average, unlike Ubuntu, so it fluctuates. Three months here, nine months there. But twice a year average.
I don't see this as a negative to using Fedora?
That is a point of view. It is a negative to me. Because so much can change and break things. Yes, it is smaller incremental changes compared to CentOS going from 4 to 5 to 6 to 7. But any of those little changes could break things because some dependency changed or something else.
I choose CentOS specifically because almost nothing changes.
CentOS is built from fedora. So the changes from say 5 to 6 are as big as the cumulative changes of the Fedora releases between the two. Almost, once in a while a change is made and not kept.
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@scottalanmiller Would you happen to know of a way to subscribe to RSS or email for when CentOS has available updates? I have seen some feeds for other distros but can't find one for CentOS.
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@msff-amman-Itofficer said in Linux File Server. Which One Would You Pick?:
Ubuntu Server :
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Automated Security updates are easy to implement.
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ufw is pleasure to work with.
I find firewalld easier than pretty much anything else.
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@stacksofplates said in Linux File Server. Which One Would You Pick?:
@msff-amman-Itofficer said in Linux File Server. Which One Would You Pick?:
Ubuntu Server :
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Automated Security updates are easy to implement.
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ufw is pleasure to work with.
I find firewalld easier than pretty much anything else.
Definitely easier than UFW.
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@wrx7m said in Linux File Server. Which One Would You Pick?:
@scottalanmiller Would you happen to know of a way to subscribe to RSS or email for when CentOS has available updates? I have seen some feeds for other distros but can't find one for CentOS.
I've not looked for one. Not sure.
