Dell Quote... good price?
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@DustinB3403 said in Dell Quote... good price?:
@JaredBusch said in Dell Quote... good price?:
@DustinB3403 said in Dell Quote... good price?:
OBR5 using SSD's is safe enough, because SSD's don't have the URE risk (among other legacy concerns). Generally, when an SSD fails, it just stops working so the array is degraded. You install a new drive, the system resilvers and you're off to the races.
Decreasing the drive count may be possible, if it will fit your storage needs (by purchasing higher capacity SSDs).
Of course SSD has URE. Where would you even get the idea that it doesn't?
I haven't been living under a rock, SSD's do not have the same URE risk that winchester drives have.
That is not what you said. you said it doesn't have URE risk.
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Literal horse today I see.....
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@Jimmy9008 said in Dell Quote... good price?:
@Dashrender said in Dell Quote... good price?:
@Jimmy9008 said in Dell Quote... good price?:
- Two of the T630 will be Raid 10 and will run production workloads (backed up on site and off site)
- Other two T630 will be Raid 5, used for hyper-v replicas from production (replica for some VMs), and used for dev team to run new VMs, to develop on, before moving the release to the production hosts (a cycle). If Raid 5 dies, its all backed up on site and off site, so we will just restore, hence not Raid 10.
You're running SSDs so RAID 5 as a consideration is acceptable in many cases, unlike spinning rust (drives). Considering this, do you really need RAID 10 on the production servers? Could you save some cash by reducing the number of drives and using RAID 5?
Now that said, I don't recall the line where it makes sense to move to RAID 6 on SSDs. You're talking about 16 drives at 800 GB - @scottalanmiller probably knows if you should consider RAID 6 or not.Why do your backup servers have so much more storage than your production? At RAID 5, it's nearly double. Perhaps your change rate is really high, and you want a decent amount of restore points, I'm just asking a question.
Also, do your backup servers need SSD drives for the backup data? I'm not sure the cost savings, but if it's there, perhaps spinning rust would be the way to go?The 2 x 60TB NAS units are used for backups. One on site, one off site. We keep a lot of backups, and these do take up lot of room. I love restore points! Not only are servers backed up daily, we also backup all workstations each night using Veeam Endpoint Free. So, it adds up fast. Real fast.
Hmm, good points. How safe is 16 x 800 GB SSD Raid 5, or Raid 6, over Raid 10?
RAId 5 isn't bad. But RAID 6 for production would be excellent.
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@JaredBusch said in Dell Quote... good price?:
@DustinB3403 said in Dell Quote... good price?:
OBR5 using SSD's is safe enough, because SSD's don't have the URE risk (among other legacy concerns). Generally, when an SSD fails, it just stops working so the array is degraded. You install a new drive, the system resilvers and you're off to the races.
Decreasing the drive count may be possible, if it will fit your storage needs (by purchasing higher capacity SSDs).
Of course SSD has URE. Where would you even get the idea that it doesn't?
It has no measured URE. Has anyone seen one yet? And I'm not asking for industry anecdotes. I mean has a manufactures yet witnessed that occurrence?
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@Jimmy9008 said in Dell Quote... good price?:
@DustinB3403 said in Dell Quote... good price?:
OBR5 using SSD's is safe enough, because SSD's don't have the URE risk (among other legacy concerns). Generally, when an SSD fails, it just stops working so the array is degraded. You install a new drive, the system resilvers and you're off to the races.
Decreasing the drive count may be possible, if it will fit your storage needs (by purchasing higher capacity SSDs).
Understood
So for the price, is that an expected cost for the kit or reasonable?
Hard to say for those of us not in the U.K. UK has their own pricing and U.K. Pricing is changing for everything recently.
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What is the KVM line item for?
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If you've got the cash for them the SSD OBR10 array will give you just mind blowing sexy IOPS - I have a server config boner thinking about it.
Just my $0.02, it's probably really unnecessary, but omfg - I want.
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@scottalanmiller said in Dell Quote... good price?:
What is the KVM line item for?
In DC/Rack management I would guess.
What is a KMM?
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@Dashrender said in Dell Quote... good price?:
KMM
It's a KVM that's integrated in the rack... don't ask why it's a dell branding thing from what I can tell. All the other vendors I've dealt with called it a standalone KVM.
KMM (Keyboard, Monitor, Mouse)
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@coliver said in Dell Quote... good price?:
@Dashrender said in Dell Quote... good price?:
KMM
It's a KVM that's integrated in the rack... don't ask why it's a dell branding thing from what I can tell. All the other vendors I've dealt with called it a standalone KVM.
KMM (Keyboard, Monitor, Mouse)
Then why are there two line items? KMM and KVM? Unless that's a type-o
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Maybe the KMM actually means they are sending a keyboard, monitor and mouse to use with the KVM?
Come on guys...
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@DustinB3403 said in Dell Quote... good price?:
Maybe the KMM actually means they are sending a keyboard, monitor and mouse to use with the KVM?
Come on guys...
I don't know about your KVMs, but mine IS the keyboard/monitor/mousepad. it's all one piece of gear. The side has the connectors that go to the servers.
These tend to be very expensive. I suppose the question really should be, do you need it at all?
You're buying iDRAC which will give you remove console access. The KVM is typically only useful if you're standing in the DC next to the servers, but in that case you could use a laptop and connect to iDRAC.
The only exception I can think of is if the KVM also gives you remove console access - but then why are you buying iDRAC? iDRAC is probably better anyway, since you can do things like mount an ISO image as if you were putting in a DVD etc. I'm guessing some remote access KVMs can do that to - but why bother, plus that's one more piece of gear, etc, etc...
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@Dashrender said in Dell Quote... good price?:
@DustinB3403 said in Dell Quote... good price?:
Maybe the KMM actually means they are sending a keyboard, monitor and mouse to use with the KVM?
Come on guys...
I don't know about your KVMs, but mine IS the keyboard/monitor/mousepad. it's all one piece of gear. The side has the connectors that go to the servers.
These tend to be very expensive. I suppose the question really should be, do you need it at all?
You're buying iDRAC which will give you remove console access. The KVM is typically only useful if you're standing in the DC next to the servers, but in that case you could use a laptop and connect to iDRAC.
The only exception I can think of is if the KVM also gives you remove console access - but then why are you buying iDRAC? iDRAC is probably better anyway, since you can do things like mount an ISO image as if you were putting in a DVD etc. I'm guessing some remote access KVMs can do that to - but why bother, plus that's one more piece of gear, etc, etc...
My KVMs here (as we are insanely cheap on the wrong things) are the $10 variety....
But I have iDrac on my new servers from xByte so things are slowly getting better.
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@Dashrender said in Dell Quote... good price?:
@DustinB3403 said in Dell Quote... good price?:
Maybe the KMM actually means they are sending a keyboard, monitor and mouse to use with the KVM?
Come on guys...
I don't know about your KVMs, but mine IS the keyboard/monitor/mousepad. it's all one piece of gear. The side has the connectors that go to the servers.
These tend to be very expensive. I suppose the question really should be, do you need it at all?
You're buying iDRAC which will give you remove console access. The KVM is typically only useful if you're standing in the DC next to the servers, but in that case you could use a laptop and connect to iDRAC.
The only exception I can think of is if the KVM also gives you remove console access - but then why are you buying iDRAC? iDRAC is probably better anyway, since you can do things like mount an ISO image as if you were putting in a DVD etc. I'm guessing some remote access KVMs can do that to - but why bother, plus that's one more piece of gear, etc, etc...
Yep, basically the KMM is exactly what you describe. Dell also sells a KVM appliance that is IP based, not sure if that is what is on the quote or not though.
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Hi Folks,
KMM/KVM, this is in rack management. One of the requirements I gave Dell is to have a 1U fold out monitor with keyboard and pad which can connect to the 4 servers for on site management. (Just fold out the in rack 1U unit. Seen loads of these and been very useful in the past. I have already queried with them why I need both KMM & KVM. Will see what they say. Perhaps they KVM is for the servers to connect to and then the KVM connect to the 1U KMM unit. Will see. Together on the quote these only came to about £1,500. So very small compared to the entire bill. iDRAC is useful for us for remote management. The KMM is in addition for easy on site (no need to carry anything) management.
I am interested in R6 or R5 now. Generally, I've done R5 on smaller SSD arrays but not 16 x 800 GB. I just assumed at that size R5 would be quite risky like if spinning disk, that risk is ok for us on the dev hosts but not stable enough for production - or so I thought. Hence Raid 10. But if raid 5 or 6 are considered solid, then I will rethink that... my question. Lets go based on Raid 6. We still easily hit out IO needs and obviously hit our space requirements:
- We plan to use Mix Use SSDs as r/w for us is about 45%/55%. If we use R6, don't we get additional write penalties for parity over R10 which would need a change to write intensive disks? Could be way off on that so advise would be helpful.
@MattSpeller Yep, this in R10 will be amazing, but Raid 5/6 will easily perform how we need. The R10 decision was more to help protect customers by putting as much space as possible between potential disk failures and having to bring service down to restore. In reality, R6 with VM replica to other host is looking good and meets our needs.
@scottalanmiller Yes, I fully understand re the price, but as a rough guide as to if its a reasonable quote. I've not purchased a Porsche before. If I were told its going to cost me £700k by a dealer and 'its a great deal'... i'd only know by checking what others paid and online rather than the 'list price'. As said, I have spent most time using them, not buying... so a rough guide that the cost is pretty decent would be helpful
But understandable if nobody is from the UK/London to say -
@Jimmy9008 For the pull out 1U KMM/KVM - make sure you have lots of room behind you / in the isle to pull it out. We have one and it always hits me square in the nuts when I pull it out.
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@MattSpeller said in Dell Quote... good price?:
@Jimmy9008 For the pull out 1U KMM/KVM - make sure you have lots of room behind you / in the isle to pull it out. We have one and it always hits me square in the nuts when I pull it out.
Oh wait, I mean... that sucks.......... -
@Jimmy9008 said in Dell Quote... good price?:
KMM/KVM, this is in rack management.
Isn't that what your iDrac is for? What's the use of a KVM with an enterprise server?
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Yes, R6 will be far safer than R5 here. If two SSDs died around the same time, your R5 would be dead.
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@scottalanmiller said in Dell Quote... good price?:
Yes, R6 will be far safer than R5 here. If two SSDs died around the same time, your R5 would be dead.
Yes, I get that re r5/r6 and why r6 is safer.
Would raid 6 write penalties be a consern over using the mix use SSDs? We are around 50/50 r/w across our servers using DPACK hence using mix use once consolidated to four hosts. If we use raid 6 would they burn out faster over r10/5 due to any additional writes? Then, wed need write intensive?
The KVM is good for us for local access as we'd not have a laptop or other device. The unit can be opened and then access to the four servers with no additional laptop or equipment needed. IDRAC is great for us for remote management.
