Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows
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TL;DR - clusterfuck, severity level 3/10.
Linux driver support still blows - this is not news.
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I'm calling Matthew Garret out for these:
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem
"Ad hominem attacks can take the form of overtly attacking somebody, or more subtly casting doubt on their character or personal attributes as a way to discredit their argument. The result of an ad hom attack can be to undermine someone's case without actually having to engage with it." - He attacked the person pointing out the problem, not the problem itself.
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ambiguity
"Politicians are often guilty of using ambiguity to mislead and will later point to how they were technically not outright lying if they come under scrutiny. The reason that it qualifies as a fallacy is that it is intrinsically misleading." - Used tone to make it sound like the opposite of his words were true.
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/black-or-white
"Also known as the false dilemma, this insidious tactic has the appearance of forming a logical argument, but under closer scrutiny it becomes evident that there are more possibilities than the either/or choice that is presented. Binary, black-or-white thinking doesn't allow for the many different variables, conditions, and contexts in which there would exist more than just the two possibilities put forth. It frames the argument misleadingly and obscures rational, honest debate." - He suggests that because Intel enabled the blocking, that Lenovo using it wasn't Lenovo's fault. But Intel isn't a player here, they forced nothing to be done wrong.
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@MattSpeller said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
Linux driver support still blows - this is not news.
False. Linux driver support is amazing. Better than Windows, I think that you will find. The issue here is bad hardware that there is no reason someone would want a driver for. The "driver" in question here is the infamous Intel FakeRAID driver that no one actually wants. Not having it could be argued to be better support, in fact.
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yeah it's crappy that Lenovo enabled the FakeRAID by default, but is it true that it can't be disabled?
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@Dashrender said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
yeah it's crappy that Lenovo enabled the FakeRAID by default, but is it true that it can't be disabled?
If I were to put money down, it'd be that changing it breaks the OS boot sequence.
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Something to keep in mind this is a consumer machine. Dell and Asus both pull crap on their consumer systems.
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@travisdh1 said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
@Dashrender said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
yeah it's crappy that Lenovo enabled the FakeRAID by default, but is it true that it can't be disabled?
If I were to put money down, it'd be that changing it breaks the OS boot sequence.
not boot sequence, but it does change the labels in the BIOS/UEFI, so the drive might not recognize itself during boot. But the point I was driving at, if you're goal is to install Linux, can you not change that setting to non FakeRAID in the stated devices? Like seriously, Lenovo requires that the FakeRAID driver be used - if that's the case, then again, this is just one more F*up on the part of Lenovo! They seriously hate their customers don't they?
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@Dashrender said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
@travisdh1 said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
@Dashrender said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
yeah it's crappy that Lenovo enabled the FakeRAID by default, but is it true that it can't be disabled?
If I were to put money down, it'd be that changing it breaks the OS boot sequence.
not boot sequence, but it does change the labels in the BIOS/UEFI, so the drive might not recognize itself during boot. But the point I was driving at, if you're goal is to install Linux, can you not change that setting to non FakeRAID in the stated devices? Like seriously, Lenovo requires that the FakeRAID driver be used - if that's the case, then again, this is just one more F*up on the part of Lenovo! They seriously hate their customers don't they?
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@Dashrender said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
yeah it's crappy that Lenovo enabled the FakeRAID by default, but is it true that it can't be disabled?
No not of as yet. It's Microsoft's requirement here not Lenovo's This is because the Lenovo Yoga 900 is part of the Microsoft Signature Series. It's mostly sold at Best buy I believe.
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All of these here will be in the same boat
https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/cat/Signature-Edition-PCs/categoryID.69916600
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So I recall when MS originally was looking to require OEMs to enable Secure Boot and not allow the end user to disable it.
It sounds like we are back in that same boat.
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@Dashrender said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
So I recall when MS originally was looking to require OEMs to enable Secure Boot and not allow the end user to disable it.
It sounds like we are back in that same boat.
Yes, it's all on Microsoft. Not Lenovo.
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@Jason said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
All of these here will be in the same boat
https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/cat/Signature-Edition-PCs/categoryID.69916600
I feel that this is an unfair generalization. If this is the case, then it's MS that's replacing the BIOS/UEFI in the laptops with something that locks them to MS OSs. At which point this would be all MS's fault, not Lenovo's.
BUT if this version of the UEFI can be found in the non MS Signature version, then this is Lenovo's doing. Now the question would be, are other vendors following suit?
OH, when did buying MS Signature edition PCs become a thing at Best Buy?
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@Dashrender said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
OH, when did buying MS Signature edition PCs become a thing at Best Buy?
Sales. Microsoft pays for some of it. maybe even gives the windows license free not sure.
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@Dashrender said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
@Jason said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
All of these here will be in the same boat
https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/cat/Signature-Edition-PCs/categoryID.69916600
I feel that this is an unfair generalization. If this is the case, then it's MS that's replacing the BIOS/UEFI in the laptops with something that locks them to MS OSs. At which point this would be all MS's fault, not Lenovo's.
No they aren't replacing it. Companies need to make money, Microsoft offers this porgram to make money. It's not bad for most non-power users (home users) makes microsoft money. So it's not hurting most people. And Lenovo, HP, MSI, ASUS etc all are part of the program to make money. It's Microsoft requirements.
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@Jason said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
@Dashrender said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
OH, when did buying MS Signature edition PCs become a thing at Best Buy?
Sales. Microsoft pays for some of it. maybe even gives the windows license free not sure.
HUH?
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He wouldn't buy his laptop at BestBuy. (This is just a bold assumption, I'll wait for @MattSpeller 's comment for official validation)
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@Jason said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
@Dashrender said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
@Jason said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
All of these here will be in the same boat
https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/cat/Signature-Edition-PCs/categoryID.69916600
I feel that this is an unfair generalization. If this is the case, then it's MS that's replacing the BIOS/UEFI in the laptops with something that locks them to MS OSs. At which point this would be all MS's fault, not Lenovo's.
No they aren't replacing it. Companies need to make money, Microsoft offers this porgram to make money. It's not bad for most non-power users (home users) makes microsoft money. So it's not hurting most people. And Lenovo, HP, MSI, ASUS etc all are part of the program to make money. It's Microsoft requirements.
If you're saying that MS pays the vendors to make a Microsoft only computer - that's fine, I don't have a problem with that - of course, considering the working past, the vendors selling this sh*t should absolutely be telling us that this device is not usable for anything other than a supported MS OS.
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@Jason said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
@Dashrender said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
OH, when did buying MS Signature edition PCs become a thing at Best Buy?
Sales. Microsoft pays for some of it. maybe even gives the windows license free not sure.
To the best of my knowledge, MS Signature edition PCs are only sold directly through MSs site or through an MS store.
Are you saying you can buy MS Signature Edition PC's in other places now?
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@RamblingBiped said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
He wouldn't buy his laptop at BestBuy. (This is just a bold assumption, I'll wait for @MattSpeller 's comment for official validation)
Fuck sakes, that took me reading the whole thread. Well done.
~MS
