Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows
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Something to keep in mind this is a consumer machine. Dell and Asus both pull crap on their consumer systems.
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@travisdh1 said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
@Dashrender said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
yeah it's crappy that Lenovo enabled the FakeRAID by default, but is it true that it can't be disabled?
If I were to put money down, it'd be that changing it breaks the OS boot sequence.
not boot sequence, but it does change the labels in the BIOS/UEFI, so the drive might not recognize itself during boot. But the point I was driving at, if you're goal is to install Linux, can you not change that setting to non FakeRAID in the stated devices? Like seriously, Lenovo requires that the FakeRAID driver be used - if that's the case, then again, this is just one more F*up on the part of Lenovo! They seriously hate their customers don't they?
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@Dashrender said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
@travisdh1 said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
@Dashrender said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
yeah it's crappy that Lenovo enabled the FakeRAID by default, but is it true that it can't be disabled?
If I were to put money down, it'd be that changing it breaks the OS boot sequence.
not boot sequence, but it does change the labels in the BIOS/UEFI, so the drive might not recognize itself during boot. But the point I was driving at, if you're goal is to install Linux, can you not change that setting to non FakeRAID in the stated devices? Like seriously, Lenovo requires that the FakeRAID driver be used - if that's the case, then again, this is just one more F*up on the part of Lenovo! They seriously hate their customers don't they?
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@Dashrender said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
yeah it's crappy that Lenovo enabled the FakeRAID by default, but is it true that it can't be disabled?
No not of as yet. It's Microsoft's requirement here not Lenovo's This is because the Lenovo Yoga 900 is part of the Microsoft Signature Series. It's mostly sold at Best buy I believe.
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All of these here will be in the same boat
https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/cat/Signature-Edition-PCs/categoryID.69916600
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So I recall when MS originally was looking to require OEMs to enable Secure Boot and not allow the end user to disable it.
It sounds like we are back in that same boat.
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@Dashrender said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
So I recall when MS originally was looking to require OEMs to enable Secure Boot and not allow the end user to disable it.
It sounds like we are back in that same boat.
Yes, it's all on Microsoft. Not Lenovo.
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@Jason said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
All of these here will be in the same boat
https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/cat/Signature-Edition-PCs/categoryID.69916600
I feel that this is an unfair generalization. If this is the case, then it's MS that's replacing the BIOS/UEFI in the laptops with something that locks them to MS OSs. At which point this would be all MS's fault, not Lenovo's.
BUT if this version of the UEFI can be found in the non MS Signature version, then this is Lenovo's doing. Now the question would be, are other vendors following suit?
OH, when did buying MS Signature edition PCs become a thing at Best Buy?
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@Dashrender said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
OH, when did buying MS Signature edition PCs become a thing at Best Buy?
Sales. Microsoft pays for some of it. maybe even gives the windows license free not sure.
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@Dashrender said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
@Jason said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
All of these here will be in the same boat
https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/cat/Signature-Edition-PCs/categoryID.69916600
I feel that this is an unfair generalization. If this is the case, then it's MS that's replacing the BIOS/UEFI in the laptops with something that locks them to MS OSs. At which point this would be all MS's fault, not Lenovo's.
No they aren't replacing it. Companies need to make money, Microsoft offers this porgram to make money. It's not bad for most non-power users (home users) makes microsoft money. So it's not hurting most people. And Lenovo, HP, MSI, ASUS etc all are part of the program to make money. It's Microsoft requirements.
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@Jason said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
@Dashrender said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
OH, when did buying MS Signature edition PCs become a thing at Best Buy?
Sales. Microsoft pays for some of it. maybe even gives the windows license free not sure.
HUH?
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He wouldn't buy his laptop at BestBuy. (This is just a bold assumption, I'll wait for @MattSpeller 's comment for official validation)
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@Jason said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
@Dashrender said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
@Jason said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
All of these here will be in the same boat
https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/cat/Signature-Edition-PCs/categoryID.69916600
I feel that this is an unfair generalization. If this is the case, then it's MS that's replacing the BIOS/UEFI in the laptops with something that locks them to MS OSs. At which point this would be all MS's fault, not Lenovo's.
No they aren't replacing it. Companies need to make money, Microsoft offers this porgram to make money. It's not bad for most non-power users (home users) makes microsoft money. So it's not hurting most people. And Lenovo, HP, MSI, ASUS etc all are part of the program to make money. It's Microsoft requirements.
If you're saying that MS pays the vendors to make a Microsoft only computer - that's fine, I don't have a problem with that - of course, considering the working past, the vendors selling this sh*t should absolutely be telling us that this device is not usable for anything other than a supported MS OS.
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@Jason said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
@Dashrender said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
OH, when did buying MS Signature edition PCs become a thing at Best Buy?
Sales. Microsoft pays for some of it. maybe even gives the windows license free not sure.
To the best of my knowledge, MS Signature edition PCs are only sold directly through MSs site or through an MS store.
Are you saying you can buy MS Signature Edition PC's in other places now?
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@RamblingBiped said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
He wouldn't buy his laptop at BestBuy. (This is just a bold assumption, I'll wait for @MattSpeller 's comment for official validation)
Fuck sakes, that took me reading the whole thread. Well done.
~MS
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@Jason said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
@Dashrender said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
yeah it's crappy that Lenovo enabled the FakeRAID by default, but is it true that it can't be disabled?
No not of as yet. It's Microsoft's requirement here not Lenovo's This is because the Lenovo Yoga 900 is part of the Microsoft Signature Series. It's mostly sold at Best buy I believe.
You mention that the Lenovo Yoga 900 is part of the MS Signature Edition line - that's not how I understand this thing works.
This is how I understand it works:
Vendors make PCs
Microsoft looks over the list of devices and picks a few from each Vendor and buys some.
They take those machines and remove the crapware from the devices (though recently I've heard it's not 100% crapware free), then resells them as new as part of MS's Signature Edition line - aka SANS the vendor added crapware.The vendor still sells the original version with all the crapware. To look at the devices side by side while powered off, you'd have no idea that one was Signature Edition and one wasn't. Of course, that's generally pretty apparent once you boot them.
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Here is an article where Paul Thurrott write about a focus group he helped setup having users use Signature Edition machines vs factory fresh.
https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/67247/microsoft-signature-can-save-pc-industry
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@Jason said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
@Dashrender said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
So I recall when MS originally was looking to require OEMs to enable Secure Boot and not allow the end user to disable it.
It sounds like we are back in that same boat.
Yes, it's all on Microsoft. Not Lenovo.
Even if MS requires it, Lenovo has to agree to it. I'm okay with MS sharing blame here, but Lenovo has to agree to that. Does Lenovo label their system as locked to a single vendor?
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@Dashrender said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
@Jason said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
@Dashrender said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
@Jason said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
All of these here will be in the same boat
https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/cat/Signature-Edition-PCs/categoryID.69916600
I feel that this is an unfair generalization. If this is the case, then it's MS that's replacing the BIOS/UEFI in the laptops with something that locks them to MS OSs. At which point this would be all MS's fault, not Lenovo's.
No they aren't replacing it. Companies need to make money, Microsoft offers this porgram to make money. It's not bad for most non-power users (home users) makes microsoft money. So it's not hurting most people. And Lenovo, HP, MSI, ASUS etc all are part of the program to make money. It's Microsoft requirements.
If you're saying that MS pays the vendors to make a Microsoft only computer - that's fine, I don't have a problem with that - of course, considering the working past, the vendors selling this sh*t should absolutely be telling us that this device is not usable for anything other than a supported MS OS.
Exactly. If Lenovo puts this out and locks it down and doesn't make this super clear... it's on Lenovo.
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This is exactly what the original Surface was. A Windows only piece of hardware. ARM based, Secure Boot locked Windows only computer. I have no problem with that, while not blatantly obvious, anyone reading the specs would realize this.
