Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab
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@Carnival-Boy said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
"Outside of work hours" simply means "at home", which is what a home lab implies.
I wouldn't necessarily say I lack passion and drive. I think it's more a case that I have more passion and drive for other things outside of IT. For that reason, and because life is frighteningly short, I do other stuff unrelated to my career whilst I am at home / not at work. Hence, I've never had a home lab, or done anything IT related outside of work hours.
For others, IT is also their hobby, which is great, but not a requirement.
It's passion and drive in IT that we are looking for, though. That's our number one hiring criteria, far above experience or existing skills. It's the only criteria that we can't fix. We can give people experience, we can train them, but we can't make them passionate about IT, so that's what we look for more than anything else.
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@Carnival-Boy said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
For others, IT is also their hobby, which is great, but not a requirement.
Different hiring goals, I suppose. It's really, more or less, our only criteria. Not exactly, you still have to gel with the team, have a clue (you can be clueless and passionate), etc. But being generally smart, fitting in with the team, being a nice person, and being passionate about the field... we can't provide those. Those are the things that the candidate brings. We bring everything else.
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@Carnival-Boy said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
I wouldn't necessarily say I lack passion and drive. I think it's more a case that I have more passion and drive for other things outside of IT. For that reason, and because life is frighteningly short, I do other stuff unrelated to my career whilst I am at home / not at work. Hence, I've never had a home lab, or done anything IT related outside of work hours.
That's exactly the same reason (that life is short) that we want to hire people who love the work and for whom it isn't work, just an extension of life. If you feel that work is something that isn't fun that you have to do "outside of life", that's horrible. If I felt like IT was work, I'd change careers to find something that I was passionate about - precisely because life is short and you shouldn't have to dislike work. You shouldn't want to go home at the end of most days, we are trying to fix the problem completely, not just let people work a little less and go home at the end of the day. We don't want them to have to stop their lives to do work, we want them to feel like they don't work at all and that "work time" is fun time.
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You can have a conversation with the candidate about his/her setup at home to get the information you need. I think that it's pretty crippling to not hire someone without a home lab. I don't have a home lab, but I have home automation setup throughout my house. Such as text messages if I forget to close my garage door, security camera door bells, light automation, etc... I played around with setting up an FreePBX and had a full FreePBX working in my house for awhile. To the point where you would my dial my home phone and you could press 1 for the kitchen, 2 for office, etc... I've now just went the voip.ms route. I'm a cordcutter as well, and I could go on and on about the geekyness of the cordcutter setup to free myself from paying for cable too. I got my VCP without a home lab. So really, I think if you can have a conversation about their setup at home to learn how geeky the person is, and what they have figured out on their own to use technology should not be overlooked.
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@magicmarker said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
You can have a conversation with the candidate about his/her setup at home to get the information you need. I think that it's pretty crippling to not hire someone without a home lab. I don't have a home lab, but I have home automation setup throughout my house. Such as text messages if I forget to close my garage door, security camera door bells, light automation, etc... I played around with setting up an FreePBX and had a full FreePBX working in my house for awhile. To the point where you would my dial my home phone and you could press 1 for the kitchen, 2 for office, etc... I've now just went the voip.ms route. I'm a cordcutter as well, and I could go on and on about the geekyness of the cordcutter setup to free myself from paying for cable too. I got my VCP without a home lab. So really, I think if you can have a conversation about their setup at home to learn how geeky the person is, and what they have figured out on their own to use technology should not be overlooked.
So you describe your home lab after saying that you don't have one. I'm confused. What is all that stuff if not your home lab? And doesn't that support the idea that having a home lab is a good sign (but I realize not the absolute only one) that someone really loves what they are doing? You just didn't call it a lab, but you described having a home lab as a way to figure out if they are passionate. So exactly what we had been thinking.
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@scottalanmiller I guess after reading my reply that I should be considering my setup as a home lab. I had it in my head that a home lab would include physical rackmount servers/switches and/or an account setup on Azure or AWS to setup VM's to play with. I just wanted to make the point that if the person has geeked out their home, that the candidate shows a passion for the work.
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@magicmarker said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@scottalanmiller I guess after reading my reply that I should be considering my setup as a home lab. I had it in my head that a home lab would include physical rackmount servers/switches and/or an account setup on Azure or AWS to setup VM's to play with. I just wanted to make the point that if the person has geeked out their home, that the candidate shows a passion for the work.
Well it might, which is why we mentioned a few times that "home lab" might include any number of similar things for learning off hours, like having Amazon AWS, colocation, a home development environment or other creative learning, but hands on, scenario. It especially varies by what you want to be learning.
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So in summary, it would seem you cannot be passionate about technology without a home lab. And if they don't have one, they aren't worth hiring.
Not being facetious here, just seems this is still the position. No other good contenders for determining a candidate who loves/is passionate about tech?
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I really don't understand why this topic is such a threatening one to so many.
Every company is allowed and able to pick the criteria on which they choose to hire someone. We are looking for some VERY specific criteria in who we hire because of how we as a company operate.
If you don't fit that criteria for whatever reason chances are you aren't a good fit for you or us. Why is that an issue?
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@Minion-Queen said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
I really don't understand why this topic is such a threatening one to so many.
Especially as it is something that anyone can fix... immediately. It's not like college, certs, SAT scores, IQ scores, Myer Briggs Types or anything else. It's one of those things that takes nothing but effort. And can be done immediately. If someone feels that they are lacking, they can remedy that right now, before doing anything else.
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@guyinpv said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
Not being facetious here, just seems this is still the position. No other good contenders for determining a candidate who loves/is passionate about tech?
As long as we use a broad term for "home lab" meaning something like "any extra curricular learning system for hands on IT learning"... which means that just reading a book doesn't count, but anything that involves practicing stuff, does.
We seem to keep going around that one thing, sure, in theory, someone might be passionate and not have a home lab. But mostly the two seemed to be tied together and in the theoretical case where they are not, how would one gauge passion without it? Not that a lab means passion, but how does someone reflect passion without one?
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Maybe the terminology should be not so much a 'home lab' but how is it you broaden your knowledge in IT - Or for Teachers, Doctors and several other professions
What do you do for CE - Continuing Education.
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@gjacobse said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
What do you do for CE - Continuing Education.
But outside of work, CE on your own, rather than CE in the office. I don't judge people by what happens at the office so much, because often they don't have the control to determine what happens there and I'd hate to pass up good people because they go stuck in crappy jobs or hire crappy people because they got lucky with good jobs.
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@scottalanmiller said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
That's exactly the same reason (that life is short) that we want to hire people who love the work and for whom it isn't work, just an extension of life. If you feel that work is something that isn't fun that you have to do "outside of life", that's horrible. If I felt like IT was work, I'd change careers to find something that I was passionate about - precisely because life is short and you shouldn't have to dislike work. You shouldn't want to go home at the end of most days, we are trying to fix the problem completely, not just let people work a little less and go home at the end of the day. We don't want them to have to stop their lives to do work, we want them to feel like they don't work at all and that "work time" is fun time.
You make it sound very binary - you either love your job or you dislike it. There are people somewhere in between, like me, who merely like their jobs. And even the bits I don't like, I try and get some satisfaction out of doing it well. Just like I don't like running but I still find it satisfying.
I guess I can see the benefits of only employing people who love IT. For example, someone who spends his free-time configuring Linux will likely progress at a faster rate than someone who spends it learning the guitar or painting.
Utimately, if the policy works for NTG then that's all that matters. Whilst it means I won't be getting a job there
every company is different and you have to find policies that work for you. -
@Carnival-Boy said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
I guess I can see the benefits of only employing people who love IT. For example, someone who spends his free-time configuring Linux will likely progress at a faster rate than someone who spends it learning the guitar or painting.
That's true, but it's a lot less about progressing and more about finding people who will totally love the job and fit in. Progressing is great, but it's not always the goal to progress compared to just excelling at the specified job. We don't subscribe to the "constant movement" career thing that so many IT people seem to feel must happen (that IT people must constantly change job categories.)
Progression, growth or whatever is important. But normally what we are looking for are people who are going to fit in a driven IT environment where we really live it around the clock. People who are excited to come to work and do what we are doing.
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@Carnival-Boy said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
Utimately, if the policy works for NTG then that's all that matters. Whilst it means I won't be getting a job there
every company is different and you have to find policies that work for you.The reality is that most people (even most IT people) would not enjoy working for NTG. It sounds great on the surface, and for those that fit the profile it really is great, but it is far from being what the average person within the field is going to enjoy.
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Do you think that a person may reach a point in their career where they are greatly skilled and have no need for tinkering in a home lab?
For example at the peak of my "computer repair" days, I was sufficiently skilled enough to fix nearly anything with only the most obscure problems requiring a lot of Googling to figure out. I had no need to fill my house with broken computers from Good Will to fix on my own time. I used to work on 4 to 8 computers at once by having tables all around me and KVM switches so I could cram as many towers on the table as possible.
Staying up to date on the latest improvements in CPUs and the latest RAM specs and motherboard sockets and video card benchmarks had much more to do with reading tech websites and magazines and news, than anything that could be done in a home lab.
At one job interview I had, they asked me not about a home lab, but asked me "how do you keep up to date on the latest technology advancements?" In other words, they were asking what blogs I read, subscriptions, newsletters, magazines, etc.So my point is, if you are an amazing small engine repairman, do you really have to fill your house and yard with engines and parts to prove your passion? Or can a person just be really good and keep up to date on the latest advancements via publications?
All I'm really asking is whether you change this requirement at all based on whether the person is inexperienced versus older/experienced etc. Surely there is a type of performance curve that shows when a person is learning, they would be far more into hands-on lab stuff, versus experienced where their home lab is just something they've already built and works great and doesn't need tinkering.
It's one thing if a person has a lab they are constantly destroying and rebuilding and tinkering with and learning on. It's another thing if a person built a complete home automation network that works and requires no rebuilding or tinkering or destroying at all. One says "yes I have a lab I'm always tinkering with!" and the other says "I have a complete home automation network and I rarely have to touch it, I spend my days floating down the river." -
@guyinpv said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
Do you think that a person may reach a point in their career where they are greatly skilled and have no need for tinkering in a home lab?
Not really. IT always needs to keep learning, growing... even just to stay doing the same position. The amount that you need to do decreases over time. But growth and exploration is an important part of IT.
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@guyinpv said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
Do you think that a person may reach a point in their career where they are greatly skilled and have no need for tinkering in a home lab?
Nope. Change is happening all the time. There is no "Universal Man" in IT.
It's not possible to know everything about everything.- There is always someone who knows more than you do
- It's not possible to know everything
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@scottalanmiller said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
@guyinpv said in Would You Hire Someone in IT Who Does Not Have a Home Lab:
Do you think that a person may reach a point in their career where they are greatly skilled and have no need for tinkering in a home lab?
Not really. IT always needs to keep learning, growing... even just to stay doing the same position. The amount that you need to do decreases over time. But growth and exploration is an important part of IT.
I agree. I just think there is a difference between a person "learning" and a professional who is just doing "maintenance" on their knowledge, in proportion to time spent in home lab. There is a difference between a "learner" who tinkers and rebuilds their lab all the time, and a professional who set his up and never needs to touch it. One "does" the lab, the other "has" a lab, in other words.
Also, does this concept transfer to other professions or is it just a technology thing? Is it required that a dentist spends his free time fixing teeth of all friends and family who ask in order to show his passion? Is it required that a doctor spend his free time helping everybody who shows up at the door in order to show his passion?
Does a person who programs in .NET all day need to come home and keep programming in .NET all night to show he's really passionate about it?The only real push back I see with this home lab requirement are basically people who lack the time or money to spend on one. Who basically do not feel any need to take their work home and thus never unplug from their profession.
You can't deny the validity of the position of wanting to cut loose and leave tech out of personal life to some degree, friends and family and kids and social life are also very important. I don't think there is anything inherently "wrong" with that, in fact it's scientifically healthy to do so.
On the other hand, there are other professions where it is CLEAR you have to spend considerable free time on the craft and not just when working, such as in sports. A basketball player who only does his sport when playing actual games or practices, is almost unacceptable. The real pros live their craft.
Anyway, interesting topic.
