Can you run a Windows desktop OS as a server to run AVImark Veterinary Software?
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@PhlipElder said in Can you run a Windows desktop OS as a server to run AVImark Veterinary Software?:
If the product says it can run on Windows 10 or 11 and falls under the 20 connection limit then go for it but with one caveat: Make sure the hardware has ECC memory to avoid a memory flipped bit error that can wreak havoc and at least a RAID 1 array between two SATA SSDs.
No, the 20 connection limit ONLY applies to the built-in Windows file and print services. File sharing and printing (leaving out IIS and the others as they don't apply).
That is exactly NOT AVImark Veterinary Software.
What you said to do is undeniable theft.
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@Obsolesce said in Can you run a Windows desktop OS as a server to run AVImark Veterinary Software?:
@PhlipElder said in Can you run a Windows desktop OS as a server to run AVImark Veterinary Software?:
If the product says it can run on Windows 10 or 11 and falls under the 20 connection limit then go for it but with one caveat: Make sure the hardware has ECC memory to avoid a memory flipped bit error that can wreak havoc and at least a RAID 1 array between two SATA SSDs.
No, the 20 connection limit ONLY applies to the built-in Windows file and print services. File sharing and printing (leaving out IIS and the others as they don't apply).
That is exactly NOT AVImark Veterinary Software.
What you said to do is undeniable theft.
Remember, ignorance doesn't make you immune to laws etc.
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@scottalanmiller said in Can you run a Windows desktop OS as a server to run AVImark Veterinary Software?:
Why is it piracy?
Windows Server 2022 and CALs are not a separate product or code base from Windows 11. Windows 11 is a limited use case of Windows 2022 under which you commit to not using the Server 2022 features.
While I agree this is piracy, I do not agree with you reasoning.
W11 and WinServer2022 are different products because MS said so!!!
They package them with different features and license rights, different brand names....
So they are different products in many imporant aspects: marketing, legal....Volkswagen and Audi cars also have very much in common under the hood, but they are not same products.
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@Mario-Jakovina said in Can you run a Windows desktop OS as a server to run AVImark Veterinary Software?:
Volkswagen and Audi cars also have very much in common under the hood, but they are not same products.
If the difference between the two products is in the license and only in the license and it is the license that unlocks the features... they are the same product. VW and Audi by law must be different products, made in different places. They can share a lot, but are different vehicles. Windows 11 and 2022 are literally the same product and the difference is the license.
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@PhlipElder said in Can you run a Windows desktop OS as a server to run AVImark Veterinary Software?:
If the product says it can run on Windows 10 or 11 and falls under the 20 connection limit then go for it
So if a third party says you can steal from a bank, go for it? Because Avimark has zero, literally zero, say in what you can legally do in your contract with Microsoft.
With that logic, why ask Avimark at all, why not ask your aunt or some kid on the street? Why pay for any license for anything, ever? Just ask someone who isn't involved and ask them if it is okay to steal from someone else and if you don't like the answer, ask random people until you get the answer you want.
Why bother asking anyone? Just treat yourself as the third party and ask yourself. Voila.
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@Obsolesce said in Can you run a Windows desktop OS as a server to run AVImark Veterinary Software?:
@PhlipElder said in Can you run a Windows desktop OS as a server to run AVImark Veterinary Software?:
If the product says it can run on Windows 10 or 11 and falls under the 20 connection limit then go for it but with one caveat: Make sure the hardware has ECC memory to avoid a memory flipped bit error that can wreak havoc and at least a RAID 1 array between two SATA SSDs.
No, the 20 connection limit ONLY applies to the built-in Windows file and print services. File sharing and printing (leaving out IIS and the others as they don't apply).
That is exactly NOT AVImark Veterinary Software.
What you said to do is undeniable theft.
More importantly, a third party has no authority to override your agreement with Microsoft.
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@Obsolesce said in Can you run a Windows desktop OS as a server to run AVImark Veterinary Software?:
@CCWTech seems super clear to me, and always has been:
Seems obvious to me:
We've gone through plenty of audits where QuickBooks has a company file on one PC while there are two or more other PCs accessing that company file. No issues there.
If the app is behaving similarly then there's nothing wrong with the setup being on Windows 10/11. Especially if the vendor indicates that it is appropriate to do so. I'm sure they wouldn't be running afoul of Microsoft's licensing.
EDIT: It's important to define what the word "server" means in this context. It does not mean what we normally use that word for. Think lawyers not IT techs.
EDIT2: Those underlines are very selective. Why was internal missed after personal? That word is also very important along with the words that come after the word "purposes:".
EDIT3: There is a dearth of info on their site about anything product setup/install related. So, post something that shows requirements for their software to run please.
EDIT4: Waaayyyy down in the search results: https://software.covetrus.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2021/03/AVImark-hardware-specifications.pdf
Looks to be exactly like the QuickBooks setup when used in a tiny operation as indicated here. So, no brainer.
The Server/Client software clearly states a server operating system is required. Again, no brainer.
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@PhlipElder said in Can you run a Windows desktop OS as a server to run AVImark Veterinary Software?:
We've gone through plenty of audits where QuickBooks has a company file on one PC while there are two or more other PCs accessing that company file. No issues there.
Historically, QuickBooks has only used file sharing for this. The remote users are opening the QuickBooks data file over the network. This matches the restrictions last I knew.
AVImark is connecting to a database server running on the host computer to my understanding. This is not file services, print services, IIS, or ICS.
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@JaredBusch said in Can you run a Windows desktop OS as a server to run AVImark Veterinary Software?:
@PhlipElder said in Can you run a Windows desktop OS as a server to run AVImark Veterinary Software?:
We've gone through plenty of audits where QuickBooks has a company file on one PC while there are two or more other PCs accessing that company file. No issues there.
Historically, QuickBooks has only used file sharing for this. The remote users are opening the QuickBooks data file over the network. This matches the restrictions last I knew.
AVImark is connecting to a database server running on the host computer to my understanding. This is not file services, print services, IIS, or ICS.
I added to my post above.
Their system specifications clarify exactly what their setup is and does. The small setup is peer to peer. No server OS required.
RTFM
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@JaredBusch said in Can you run a Windows desktop OS as a server to run AVImark Veterinary Software?:
Historically, QuickBooks has only used file sharing for this. The remote users are opening the QuickBooks data file over the network. This matches the restrictions last I knew.
exactly this.
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@Obsolesce said in Can you run a Windows desktop OS as a server to run AVImark Veterinary Software?:
@JaredBusch said in Can you run a Windows desktop OS as a server to run AVImark Veterinary Software?:
Historically, QuickBooks has only used file sharing for this. The remote users are opening the QuickBooks data file over the network. This matches the restrictions last I knew.
exactly this.
Please reread the Device Restrictions section without all of the underlines especially the part where "internal" is mentioned and "the following purposes:" after that. It's very clear that one can use a Windows Desktop OS for shared internal services. That hasn't changed at all.
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@PhlipElder said in Can you run a Windows desktop OS as a server to run AVImark Veterinary Software?:
@Obsolesce said in Can you run a Windows desktop OS as a server to run AVImark Veterinary Software?:
@JaredBusch said in Can you run a Windows desktop OS as a server to run AVImark Veterinary Software?:
Historically, QuickBooks has only used file sharing for this. The remote users are opening the QuickBooks data file over the network. This matches the restrictions last I knew.
exactly this.
Please reread the Device Restrictions section without all of the underlines especially the part where "internal" is mentioned and "the following purposes:" after that. It's very clear that one can use a Windows Desktop OS for shared internal services. That hasn't changed at all.
By very definition: Peer-to-Peer.
I've been doing this a very long time in the SMB/SME markets. Former SBS MVP and all that.
Tell me a time when any IT tech in those markets hasn't encountered a peer-to-peer setup of desktop operating systems sharing who knows what in a rat's nest of patchwork.
If peer-to-peer wasn't a thing, or illegit as being claimed here, then why did Microsoft have the clause I pointed to included? That is by very definition peer-to-peer.
Again, definitions of words are important here. We can't apply IT Tech definitions to legal definitions. The whole 32-bit memory limitation thing is a good example of that. All y'all know that Windows 32-bit being held down to 4GB of addressable RAM was an arbitrary choice by Microsoft to force-sell their Advanced/Enterprise products that could address more RAM right?
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@PhlipElder said in Can you run a Windows desktop OS as a server to run AVImark Veterinary Software?:
@JaredBusch said in Can you run a Windows desktop OS as a server to run AVImark Veterinary Software?:
@PhlipElder said in Can you run a Windows desktop OS as a server to run AVImark Veterinary Software?:
We've gone through plenty of audits where QuickBooks has a company file on one PC while there are two or more other PCs accessing that company file. No issues there.
Historically, QuickBooks has only used file sharing for this. The remote users are opening the QuickBooks data file over the network. This matches the restrictions last I knew.
AVImark is connecting to a database server running on the host computer to my understanding. This is not file services, print services, IIS, or ICS.
I added to my post above.
Their system specifications clarify exactly what their setup is and does. The small setup is peer to peer. No server OS required.
RTFM
No Manual is going to override MS Licensing.
What AVImark says doesn't matter so discussing it is silly. I could care less what their hardware specs say.
AVImark now requires Guardian to be running which takes it beyond file sharing. End of story.
I have talked to many Microsoft licensing specialists and they agree.
One clinic that believes that they can run Windows desktop with AVImark is the subject of a Microsoft Audit because of that. Yes, I have first-hand knowledge of this. AVImark is not going to pay for their legal defense. I promise you that.
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@PhlipElder said in Can you run a Windows desktop OS as a server to run AVImark Veterinary Software?:
@Obsolesce said in Can you run a Windows desktop OS as a server to run AVImark Veterinary Software?:
@CCWTech seems super clear to me, and always has been:
Seems obvious to me:
We've gone through plenty of audits where QuickBooks has a company file on one PC while there are two or more other PCs accessing that company file. No issues there.
If the app is behaving similarly then there's nothing wrong with the setup being on Windows 10/11. Especially if the vendor indicates that it is appropriate to do so. I'm sure they wouldn't be running afoul of Microsoft's licensing.
EDIT: It's important to define what the word "server" means in this context. It does not mean what we normally use that word for. Think lawyers not IT techs.
EDIT2: Those underlines are very selective. Why was internal missed after personal? That word is also very important along with the words that come after the word "purposes:".
EDIT3: There is a dearth of info on their site about anything product setup/install related. So, post something that shows requirements for their software to run please.
EDIT4: Waaayyyy down in the search results: https://software.covetrus.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2021/03/AVImark-hardware-specifications.pdf
Looks to be exactly like the QuickBooks setup when used in a tiny operation as indicated here. So, no brainer.
The Server/Client software clearly states a server operating system is required. Again, no brainer.
First and foremost, it says the following:
You may allow up to 20 other devices to access the software installed on the licensed device solely to use the following software features for personal or internal purposes: file services, print services, Internet information services, and Internet connection sharing and telephony services on the licensed device.
The personal/internal bit matters not.
AVIMark is neither file services nor print services at the core. It's a database. It's server software. Just like you can't put SQL Server on it.
Secondly, it says:
You may allow any number of devices to access the software on the licensed device to synchronize data between devices.
This means, for example, services like Windows Update Delivery Optimization (the built-in P2P stuff), BranchCache, etc.
It does NOT mean "whatever the hell I want to do between devices".It doesn't matter, at all, what AVImark says. What matters is that putting AVImark on Windows 10/11 results in the device being operated as a server (plain and simple):
(v) use the software as server software or to operate the device as a server, except as permitted under Section 2(d)(iii) below; use the software to offer commercial hosting services; make the software available for simultaneous use by more than one user over a network, except as permitted under Section 2(d)(vi) below; install the software on a server for remote access or use over a network; or install the software on a device for use only by remote users;
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@Obsolesce We're going to have to agree to disagree.
The peer-to-peer setup has been around since Token Ring that I can think of off the top and abides by Microsoft's licensing.
We've been through audits in peer-to-peer settings, as mentioned SMB was our bread and butter, with nary an issue with setups like the p2p mentioned in AVIMark for their tiny setup. We're usually the ones schooling the auditors anyway.
TTFN
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@PhlipElder said in Can you run a Windows desktop OS as a server to run AVImark Veterinary Software?:
We're usually the ones schooling the auditors anyway.
I'd love to be a fly on the wall for that conversation!
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@PhlipElder said in Can you run a Windows desktop OS as a server to run AVImark Veterinary Software?:
@Obsolesce We're going to have to agree to disagree.
The peer-to-peer setup has been around since Token Ring that I can think of off the top and abides by Microsoft's licensing.
We've been through audits in peer-to-peer settings, as mentioned SMB was our bread and butter, with nary an issue with setups like the p2p mentioned in AVIMark for their tiny setup. We're usually the ones schooling the auditors anyway.
TTFN
So you're saying Microsoft licensing terms do not apply if installed on devices on peer to peer networks?
You've got a lot of theft under your belt, then. Willful ignorance of terms. MVP of SBS means shit... as does (wrongfully) convincing auditors of theft.
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@Obsolesce said in Can you run a Windows desktop OS as a server to run AVImark Veterinary Software?:
@PhlipElder said in Can you run a Windows desktop OS as a server to run AVImark Veterinary Software?:
@Obsolesce We're going to have to agree to disagree.
The peer-to-peer setup has been around since Token Ring that I can think of off the top and abides by Microsoft's licensing.
We've been through audits in peer-to-peer settings, as mentioned SMB was our bread and butter, with nary an issue with setups like the p2p mentioned in AVIMark for their tiny setup. We're usually the ones schooling the auditors anyway.
TTFN
So you're saying Microsoft licensing terms do not apply if installed on devices on peer to peer networks?
You've got a lot of theft under your belt, then. Willful ignorance of terms. MVP of SBS means shit... as does (wrongfully) convincing auditors of theft.
As mentioned, let's agree to disagree. TTFN
EDIT: If you really think you have a case then report it to the BSA.
Accusing someone of theft based on an subjective interpretation of terms and conditions is a pretty serious accusation.
Suffice it to say, put up or shut up.
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@PhlipElder said in Can you run a Windows desktop OS as a server to run AVImark Veterinary Software?:
@Obsolesce said in Can you run a Windows desktop OS as a server to run AVImark Veterinary Software?:
@PhlipElder said in Can you run a Windows desktop OS as a server to run AVImark Veterinary Software?:
@Obsolesce We're going to have to agree to disagree.
The peer-to-peer setup has been around since Token Ring that I can think of off the top and abides by Microsoft's licensing.
We've been through audits in peer-to-peer settings, as mentioned SMB was our bread and butter, with nary an issue with setups like the p2p mentioned in AVIMark for their tiny setup. We're usually the ones schooling the auditors anyway.
TTFN
So you're saying Microsoft licensing terms do not apply if installed on devices on peer to peer networks?
You've got a lot of theft under your belt, then. Willful ignorance of terms. MVP of SBS means shit... as does (wrongfully) convincing auditors of theft.
As mentioned, let's agree to disagree. TTFN
EDIT: If you really think you have a case then report it to the BSA.
Accusing someone of theft based on an subjective interpretation of terms and conditions is a pretty serious accusation.
Suffice it to say, put up or shut up.
It is theft. There is no other way to look at it. The fact that you have to interpret it subjectively and not objectively speaks volumes.
And it's not the BSA that investigates. Microsoft works with a different company. One of the vet clinics that I am personally aware of that believes you can do this is being audited because they got caught.
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@CCWTech said in Can you run a Windows desktop OS as a server to run AVImark Veterinary Software?:
@PhlipElder said in Can you run a Windows desktop OS as a server to run AVImark Veterinary Software?:
@Obsolesce said in Can you run a Windows desktop OS as a server to run AVImark Veterinary Software?:
@PhlipElder said in Can you run a Windows desktop OS as a server to run AVImark Veterinary Software?:
@Obsolesce We're going to have to agree to disagree.
The peer-to-peer setup has been around since Token Ring that I can think of off the top and abides by Microsoft's licensing.
We've been through audits in peer-to-peer settings, as mentioned SMB was our bread and butter, with nary an issue with setups like the p2p mentioned in AVIMark for their tiny setup. We're usually the ones schooling the auditors anyway.
TTFN
So you're saying Microsoft licensing terms do not apply if installed on devices on peer to peer networks?
You've got a lot of theft under your belt, then. Willful ignorance of terms. MVP of SBS means shit... as does (wrongfully) convincing auditors of theft.
As mentioned, let's agree to disagree. TTFN
EDIT: If you really think you have a case then report it to the BSA.
Accusing someone of theft based on an subjective interpretation of terms and conditions is a pretty serious accusation.
Suffice it to say, put up or shut up.
It is theft. There is no other way to look at it. The fact that you have to interpret it subjectively and not objectively speaks volumes.
And it's not the BSA that investigates. Microsoft works with a different company. One of the vet clinics that I am personally aware of that believes you can do this is being audited because they got caught.
BSA is in Canada.
As I've mentioned, peer to peer has been around for a very long time.
What I'm being told here is that every peer to peer setup was illegal and thus theft. Yet, in the audits we've participated in when a peer to peer was involved none were knocked for it.
It's pretty easy to sling the mud and armchair quarterback like this.
Show me some Microsoft based resources that clearly interpret things they way that is being stated here. Since the semantics and legalese seem to be the catch let's see a clear statement from Microsoft that a peer to peer setup where folks are sharing files and a printer or two is indeed illegal and thus "theft" as it's being called here.
Show me the money.
