Twilio as a SIP provider
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@triple9 said in Twilio as a SIP provider:
@scottalanmiller @bigbear I was lucky enough not to use FR in production, only in lab while I was studying for my Cisco certs. Nowdays, we don't use FR, and Cisco is less and less present in my work. Fortunatelly
I never had to use it first hand. But I have managed Token ring networks. Even owned one at home.
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@bigbear said in Twilio as a SIP provider:
I have been using Twilio with FreePBX for however it was that I first joined this form. Have also used inbound Twilio for 2 years to ACME packet SBC's for inbound. Have ported customers to them every month outside of our local market (away form Level 3 and Verizon) and by then end of the year all our extended area inbound will be twilio. We have a cross connect with them but OTT worked flawlessly.
Have never had an outage. Best kept secret around.
It is 6/6 billing, even when you are 10mmou. Its 60/60 for inbound and outbound. For your avergae single account 6/6 only nets you 12% savings, where there rates are 55% cheaper on inbound
Outbound subaccount calling is difficult to configure. Inbound requires you peer to all of the market IP addresses in freePBX separately.
But it works great.
EDIT: If you are going to use them I suggest Telnyx for outbound. Its 6/6 pricing for .0075 for outbound. Its also easier to configure than outbound on twilio sub accounts (assuming youare reselling)
I am confused. Is it 6/6 or 60/60 billing?
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Twilio is per minute billing in/out. You got 10 seconds over you pay for the whole minute.
Telnyx offers 6/6 billing in and out.
My suggestion was to use Twilio for inbound .0045 and Telnyx for termination .0075.
Twilio has no intention of going 6/6 as they don't want to deal with bad Average Seizure Rations (call center dialing). After you have established a couple MMOU with them they will make exceptions.
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@bigbear said in Twilio as a SIP provider:
Twilio is per minute billing in/out. You got 10 seconds over you pay for the whole minute.
Telnyx offers 6/6 billing in and out.
My suggestion was to use Twilio for inbound .0045 and Telnyx for termination .0075.
Twilio has no intention of going 6/6 as they don't want to deal with bad Average Seizure Rations (call center dialing). After you have established a couple MMOU with them they will make exceptions.
60/60 instead of 6/6 can make a big difference. At that rate of .0045 it is the same as VoIP.ms at .009, but VoIP.MS bills at 6/6.
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Can you explain 60/60 vs 6/6?
From the sound of it you get charged for a full 60 seconds whether you use the entire thing or not. 6/6 sound the same but only for 6 seconds?
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@JaredBusch said in Twilio as a SIP provider:
@bigbear said in Twilio as a SIP provider:
Twilio is per minute billing in/out. You got 10 seconds over you pay for the whole minute.
Telnyx offers 6/6 billing in and out.
My suggestion was to use Twilio for inbound .0045 and Telnyx for termination .0075.
Twilio has no intention of going 6/6 as they don't want to deal with bad Average Seizure Rations (call center dialing). After you have established a couple MMOU with them they will make exceptions.
60/60 instead of 6/6 can make a big difference. At that rate of .0045 it is the same as VoIP.ms at .009, but VoIP.MS bills at 6/6.
In my experience you save about 12% on origination with 6/6, Maybe up to 20% on termination. For a single business usually much less on the latter even.
You will never touch the .0045 average for origination twilio charges with .009 at 6/6.
You should dump a CDR and round-up your minutes and apply the rate. I bet its at least 30% cheaper and likely more...
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@coliver said in Twilio as a SIP provider:
Can you explain 60/60 vs 6/6?
From the sound of it you get charged for a full 60 seconds whether you use the entire thing or not. 6/6 sound the same but only for 6 seconds?
In telecom the first number is the minimum number of seconds you will be billed for the call. The second number is the minimum increments you will be billed in seconds for the remainder of the call.
As a CLEC or wholesaler you will see a little of 6/1. On the retail side Origination (even Flowroute) is 60/60 where there outbound is 30/6.
For retail Twilio has the best origination deal you will (.0045) find and Telnyx has the best termination I have seen.
Wholesale requires minimum monthly commitments and at least 1mmou (million minutes of monthly usage). In wholesale we mostly LCR through providers that do not provide 100% guaranteed call completion. With Twilio on wholesale you can get down to .0025.
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I should also mention, for at least 5 years, DID peering has dramatically cut wholesale/CLEC costs on the backend (with no benefit to the retail side).
DID peering means carriers router calls directly to each other before hitting the telephone network. We charge each other .00001 or less for these connections.
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A few numbers I crunched. I'm basing this off of minutes reported on my last Windstream bill for toll-free and long-distance calling. Trying to get accurate overall numbers digging through Altigen CDR is proving to be a challenge.
Total toll-free minutes (6-second increments): 12010.8 ---- Cost for voip.ms = 228.21 ($0.019)
Total toll-free minutes (60-second increments): 12756 ---- Cost for Twilio = 229.61 ($0.018)Long-distance minutes (6-second increments): 14100.1 --- Cost for voip.ms = 141.00 ($0.01)
Long-distance minutes (60-second increments): 15203 -- Cost for Twilio = 106.52 ($0.007) -
So a bit of savings there, but not massive. But not bad.
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Incoming calls are free on both?
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@scottalanmiller No. I'm trying to go through the Altigen CDR to try to get an accurate count of non-toll free inbound minutes.
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@EddieJennings said in Twilio as a SIP provider:
@scottalanmiller No. I'm trying to go through the Altigen CDR to try to get an accurate count of non-toll free inbound minutes.
Add a couple zeros and its a pretty big deal. Just look at annual savings for example.
Inbound will be huge, 50% or more savings over voip.ms
I would use Telnyx for outbound. Way easier to configure and its .0075 with 6/6 billing on outbound. Also, when you call out to 800 numbers Twilio will charge you, Telnyx will terminate the call for free (as it should be for the calling party)
There are some other advantages with caller ID passing via Telnyx that Twilio will give you problems with if the number isn't in your DID list.
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@scottalanmiller said in Twilio as a SIP provider:
So a bit of savings there, but not massive. But not bad.
He is comparing those numbers against his Windstream bill. A number we have not see. But willbe significantly higher than those numbers.
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Here are some numbers. Here are a few things to note. First, minutes are as accurate as I can get from my CDR cross-referencing tasks. Second, a "normal" Windstream bill is around $750. This month was the worst of the toll-fraud. Third, add about $5 / month for a Vultr instance for Twilio or Voip.ms. Fourth, savings will be event more when if cut out some DIDs, as we're not using more than 50 at the moment.
Edit: Removed incorrect figures.
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@EddieJennings said in Twilio as a SIP provider:
about $5 / month for a Vultr instance for Twilio or Voip.ms. Fourth, savings will be event more when if cut out some DIDs, as
damn - nearly a 75% savings.
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Bah, realized I had my sum-formula written incorrect. Here's the real deal (including Vultr hosting)
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@EddieJennings said in Twilio as a SIP provider:
Bah, realized I had my sum-formula written incorrect. Here's the real deal (including Vultr hosting)
Should be $6 for hosting if you use their auto backup feature also.
But yeah, those are pretty typical savings when coming from legacy systems.
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A "normal" month comparison. Minutes for 60/60 would probably be more, but it seems like it's a 10% increase over 6/6 minutes. This is the best estimate I could make.
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I did not look at your calculations, but are you calculating the inbound and outbound on the right costs since Twilio has different rates on that?
Just making sure you are doing it all right.
