Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016
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@JaredBusch said in Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016:
@scottalanmiller said in Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016:
@magroover said in Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016:
Does everyone here pretty much use Office 365 for email, then?
It's the most popular I think. Certainly not all. Some G Suite users, a few Zimbra. Some Zoho, too.
It is hard to beat $4/user/month.
I mean I get paid to install things like this and I sitll do not recommend it, because it is not what is best for my client's business.
LOL, yeah, same here. SO much money to be made supporting Exchange if we could just bring ourselves to tell people it was okay to run (for normal business cases.)
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@scottalanmiller said in Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016:
@JaredBusch said in Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016:
@scottalanmiller said in Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016:
@magroover said in Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016:
Does everyone here pretty much use Office 365 for email, then?
It's the most popular I think. Certainly not all. Some G Suite users, a few Zimbra. Some Zoho, too.
It is hard to beat $4/user/month.
I mean I get paid to install things like this and I sitll do not recommend it, because it is not what is best for my client's business.
LOL, yeah, same here. SO much money to be made supporting Exchange if we could just bring ourselves to tell people it was okay to run (for normal business cases.)
And if they'd accept the advice.
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@JaredBusch said in Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016:
I mean I get paid to install things like this and I still do not recommend it, because it is not what is best for my client's business.
That's really a good way to point out what a bad idea this likely is. Consultants who would get paid TO PUSH EXCHANGE can't do so on ethical grounds because they would normally only say it was okay to consider to make a quick buck of a naive client.
THis is a client so naive they are doing it to themselves!
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@JaredBusch said in Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016:
@travisdh1 said in Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016:
@magroover said in Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016:
Does everyone here pretty much use Office 365 for email, then?
We don't use Office365, just the self-hosted service that includes it otherwise. Wouldn't want to run a local mail server.
WETF? Can you translate that from tin foil hat to English?
Yeah, $.
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@travisdh1 what self hosted service?
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@magroover said in Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016:
@travisdh1 what self hosted service?
He doesn't have them.. that was the point of my querying WTF he was saying. He mixed his sentence up horribly.
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@magroover said in Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016:
There are 3 partners, all of which are over 70, one is 83.
The prevailing response was "we don't do things cheap to save money, we don't cut corners". And then a ridiculous amount of speculation about who would hack our cloud based email accounts.This is the absolute worst kind of thinking known to mankind. There's a term for this, I think it's NIH, may be coupled with the IKEA effect. Correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a while since I've heard it and had to look it up quick before I lost my train of thought. This whole thing is almost the exact same scenario in which I heard the term, whether it's one of those or not.
That 50-year old thinking is insane and has no place in modern day business.
Do those owners have any idea how many millions and millions and millions and millions of dollars and thousands and thousands and thousands of collective man-hours that have gone in to security, and huge dedicated teams for every aspect of O365 email? Do they really believe their $3000 server and 100 man-hours will really be any more secure than the O365 email cloud? Do they think them and their employees are more skilled than the collective 1000's of employees working 24/7 to monitor, research, advance, grow, maintain, etc... the so-called O365 "cloud"?
I haven't read all 75 responses, but from what I seen, @JaredBusch pretty much hit the nail on the head regarding costs as well as other aspects.
If you have already gone over all of this stuff with management, and they STILL want you to do this in-house after everything... than do right, on the right equipment as others have suggested. They obviously have no regard to the monetary aspect of this, so it seems like you are free to spend whatever is needed to do it the right way.
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From a business point of view, it's just not worth it to do it in-house for so many reasons. If they are going to make you do it regardless, and you can't find a better job first, then as I said above... you'll just have to follow through with it, but make sure to do it right as best you can. Make sure to have stuff in writing or email record for future reference, too.
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@magroover said in Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016:
Does everyone here pretty much use Office 365 for email, then?
On-premise still here.
I think some of the ranting against your employers by certain posters on here is way OTT. They haven't asked you to go and club some seals. There was clearly a massive breakdown in trust between your predecessor and your employers and that's going to affect how much they trust you, rightly or wrongly. It's going to take longer than normal for you to build up a good, trusting relationship with them. Once bitten, twice shy and all that.
I wouldn't over analyse your situation. Installing Exchange and AD on a new server should be fun and will make your employers happy. Just enjoy it.
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@Tim_G said in Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016:
That 50-year old thinking is insane and has no place in modern day business.
It's not 50 year old thinking. Have a century ago people were not idiots. Fifty years ago good business practices were still good business practices and the most important ones were things like "doing what is best for our business", "listening to the advice of experts" and "using rational logic to make decisions." Those practices fifty years ago might have resulted in very different decisions, but good managers were always using the same smart processes as today. Sure the results change because the factors change.
But it is like good RAID decision making - the rules and guidelines that Microsoft taught that led to split arrays with RAID 1 for the OS and RAID 5 for the data in the 1990s didn't need to be changed at all and are themselves the rules that led to things like the deprecation of RAID 5 in 2009 and OBR10. Good rational rules don't change, idiots trying to memorize answers based on complex condition based rules or running businesses off of emotions and panic were just as bad fifty years ago as today.
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@Carnival-Boy said in Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016:
There was clearly a massive breakdown in trust between your predecessor and your employers and that's going to affect how much they trust you, ...
Right, would YOU like to be judged based on your job title rather than on your own track record? Would you want to work for irrational, emotional people who hire you just to punish you as a means of placating their own feelings of guilt over having hired the wrong person or having managed him badly?
This is a core business failing. It's a core adult failing. This is specifically what a manager is supposed to protect employees against, not inflict upon them.
That on top of that they hurt the company in the process makes it that much worse. That they themselves are the IT managers who screwed this up and are now trying to blame others.... there is no OTT, this is really bad.
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@Carnival-Boy said in Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016:
I wouldn't over analyse your situation. Installing Exchange and AD on a new server should be fun and will make your employers happy. Just enjoy it.
I agree. Accept that they are not good employers and don't screw yourself over trying to help them through their mistakes. Embrace that this is their failing and let them hurt themselves. No one actually suffers from this except for them. Enjoy them losing money and being at risk. Enjoy them lashing out at you and hurting themselves in the process. You are just an employee and while you want to do a "good job", there is no negative to you in being told to do a "bad job". Remember, you get paid the same either way. You go home and don't need to worry either way. You don't lose money here, so just enjoy not being in charge and not having any responsibility for the decisions.
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@JaredBusch said in Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016:
@magroover said in Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016:
@travisdh1 what self hosted service?
He doesn't have them.. that was the point of my querying WTF he was saying. He mixed his sentence up horribly.
Ah yeah, I do that quite often
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@travisdh1 said in Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016:
@JaredBusch said in Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016:
@magroover said in Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016:
@travisdh1 what self hosted service?
He doesn't have them.. that was the point of my querying WTF he was saying. He mixed his sentence up horribly.
Ah yeah, I do that quite often
What DID you mean? LOL
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The great irony of deploying this legacy-style solution is watching how poorly AppRiver handles sales. The poor sales guy is following some sales process of trying to get me on the phone. I just want pricing and information. They are forcing him to do the job of a website. So I assume immediately the pricing is going to be a little out of touch.
But you can't blame them. If you are deploying Premise-Based exchange you are probably out of touch yourself. I am sure my request for 27 seats wasn't very exciting either so at least he is being a good sport.
He insisted a couple times Microsoft didn't have a solution comparable to AppRiver. I sent him links and screen shots after part of his reply contained "if the Microsoft service even exists". So apparently they do no market research to keep their sales staff informed. If there is a single competitor you would think they should be aware of its Microsoft, right?
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@magroover said in Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016:
@travisdh1 said in Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016:
@JaredBusch said in Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016:
@magroover said in Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016:
@travisdh1 what self hosted service?
He doesn't have them.. that was the point of my querying WTF he was saying. He mixed his sentence up horribly.
Ah yeah, I do that quite often
What DID you mean? LOL
Just that while we don't use Office365, we still use someone else's service.
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@magroover said in Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016:
@travisdh1 said in Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016:
@JaredBusch said in Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016:
@magroover said in Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016:
@travisdh1 what self hosted service?
He doesn't have them.. that was the point of my querying WTF he was saying. He mixed his sentence up horribly.
Ah yeah, I do that quite often
What DID you mean? LOL
No one knows.
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@magroover said in Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016:
The great irony of deploying this legacy-style solution is watching how poorly AppRiver handles sales. The poor sales guy is following some sales process of trying to get me on the phone. I just want pricing and information. They are forcing him to do the job of a website. So I assume immediately the pricing is going to be a little out of touch.
But you can't blame them. If you are deploying Premise-Based exchange you are probably out of touch yourself. I am sure my request for 27 seats wasn't very exciting either so at least he is being a good sport.
He insisted a couple times Microsoft didn't have a solution comparable to AppRiver. I sent him links and screen shots after part of his reply contained "if the Microsoft service even exists". So apparently they do no market research to keep their sales staff informed. If there is a single competitor you would think they should be aware of its Microsoft, right?
The sales staff probably know about the Microsoft service. They are just so used to dealing with people who buy IT that they are trained to lie to customers in order to get the sale. Remember most IT people get "free" advice from sales people and never really look at other options.
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@magroover said in Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016:
The great irony of deploying this legacy-style solution is watching how poorly AppRiver handles sales.
They used to be great but Shane isn't there anymore and he was the one making all the magic happen.
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@magroover said in Moving from Exchange Online Plan 1 to In House Exchange 2016:
He insisted a couple times Microsoft didn't have a solution comparable to AppRiver. I sent him links and screen shots after part of his reply contained "if the Microsoft service even exists". So apparently they do no market research to keep their sales staff informed. If there is a single competitor you would think they should be aware of its Microsoft, right?
They would never mention Microsoft because if their customers or potential customers know about O365, they'd never be talking to anyone else about Exchange solutions. So they have a very focused special conversation for their highly filtered potential customer base.
