Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?
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@BRRABill said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
@stacksofplates said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
@stacksofplates said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
I think the biggest point I see is around security. With a backup server or multiple backup servers the data is contained to those machines wherever you decide to put them. It seems like going backwards having data shared locally on workstations. We make it a point to have nothing on the local workstations except what is needed for authentication and mounting of the real stuff.
Heavily encrypted on the workstations. The individual workstations have no access to the data. And if you have more machines than you have redundancy, the data on the individual machines are incomplete, even when encrypted.
I guess my point is, if the right machines are stolen (since they are likely to have the least security), there is no backup.
That was part of my original question, in that there is no remote backup.
How do you solve that with a NAS? There is no remote backup there either.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
@BRRABill said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
@stacksofplates said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
@stacksofplates said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
I think the biggest point I see is around security. With a backup server or multiple backup servers the data is contained to those machines wherever you decide to put them. It seems like going backwards having data shared locally on workstations. We make it a point to have nothing on the local workstations except what is needed for authentication and mounting of the real stuff.
Heavily encrypted on the workstations. The individual workstations have no access to the data. And if you have more machines than you have redundancy, the data on the individual machines are incomplete, even when encrypted.
I guess my point is, if the right machines are stolen (since they are likely to have the least security), there is no backup.
That was part of my original question, in that there is no remote backup.
How do you solve that with a NAS? There is no remote backup there either.
I'm not saying there is. I'm just saying what he mentioned was part of my original question.
And you really aren't backing up the nodes, you'd be backing up the mounted store, correct?
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@scottalanmiller said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
@BRRABill said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
If this is the official pricing, I am wondering if the 25GB lower "free" end should be higher. That basically knocks anyone doing backups out of the equation.
That would be the idea. The free tier is really for testing and really basic stuff. If you want production backups, paying for support is probably a good idea.
Keep in mind that anyone doing DevOps style backups, 25GB is enormous.
I guess my thinking was by making it seem "free" as opposed to a trial level, it's just marketing.
Maybe there would be usable level like some products have for very SMB to use and learn and talk about to create buzz.
Not arguing about it ... just pondering aloud.
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@Dashrender said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
@BRRABill said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
@stacksofplates said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
@stacksofplates said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
I think the biggest point I see is around security. With a backup server or multiple backup servers the data is contained to those machines wherever you decide to put them. It seems like going backwards having data shared locally on workstations. We make it a point to have nothing on the local workstations except what is needed for authentication and mounting of the real stuff.
Heavily encrypted on the workstations. The individual workstations have no access to the data. And if you have more machines than you have redundancy, the data on the individual machines are incomplete, even when encrypted.
I guess my point is, if the right machines are stolen (since they are likely to have the least security), there is no backup.
That was part of my original question, in that there is no remote backup.
@scottalanmiller mentioend rmeote stores, but don't they have to be on the same LAN?
Does LAN over VPN count?
Not officially as you don't have solid control over what data goes to what node. Sure you could reduce node count to force it. But that is so awkward.
The problem here is that we are asking AetherStore to do something that the alternative cannot do. A NAS needs to replicate to another NAS in another location to do this. AetherStore can do that as well using the same mechanisms. Or to a NAS in the offsite location if you want.
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@BRRABill said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
@BRRABill said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
@stacksofplates said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
@stacksofplates said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
I think the biggest point I see is around security. With a backup server or multiple backup servers the data is contained to those machines wherever you decide to put them. It seems like going backwards having data shared locally on workstations. We make it a point to have nothing on the local workstations except what is needed for authentication and mounting of the real stuff.
Heavily encrypted on the workstations. The individual workstations have no access to the data. And if you have more machines than you have redundancy, the data on the individual machines are incomplete, even when encrypted.
I guess my point is, if the right machines are stolen (since they are likely to have the least security), there is no backup.
That was part of my original question, in that there is no remote backup.
How do you solve that with a NAS? There is no remote backup there either.
I'm not saying there is. I'm just saying what he mentioned was part of my original question.
And you really aren't backing up the nodes, you'd be backing up the mounted store, correct?
You'd back up the storage, yes. Through the head unit. The nodes cannot access the data on themselves. To you it is just a SAN. That there is data on the nodes isn't relevant once you are "using" the system.
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@BRRABill said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
I guess my thinking was by making it seem "free" as opposed to a trial level, it's just marketing.
Well it is not limited in functionality, nor in time, nor in use cases. It's totally functional for its size tier and is in no way whatsoever a trial. And for many (most?) SMBs of a smaller size, it's more than the amount of actual data that they need to protect. It doesn't "seem" free, it's very much actually free and in no sense a trial.
That's like saying that getting a small ice cream cone free is a "trial" and not actually free just because it's smaller than you want to get for free.
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@BRRABill said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
Maybe there would be usable level like some products have for very SMB to use and learn and talk about to create buzz.
And there is! What more do you need? Why do you need more than this? Let's start there. How much data do you need to protect?
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@scottalanmiller said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
@BRRABill said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
I guess my thinking was by making it seem "free" as opposed to a trial level, it's just marketing.
Well it is not limited in functionality, nor in time, nor in use cases. It's totally functional for its size tier and is in no way whatsoever a trial. And for many (most?) SMBs of a smaller size, it's more than the amount of actual data that they need to protect. It doesn't "seem" free, it's very much actually free and in no sense a trial.
That's like saying that getting a small ice cream cone free is a "trial" and not actually free just because it's smaller than you want to get for free.
You think 25GB is sufficient for backup?
Maybe, maybe if you are just backing up data, and without a lot of backup revisions. (Please, no need to argue about the plusses/minuses of this strategy.
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@BRRABill said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
@BRRABill said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
I guess my thinking was by making it seem "free" as opposed to a trial level, it's just marketing.
Well it is not limited in functionality, nor in time, nor in use cases. It's totally functional for its size tier and is in no way whatsoever a trial. And for many (most?) SMBs of a smaller size, it's more than the amount of actual data that they need to protect. It doesn't "seem" free, it's very much actually free and in no sense a trial.
That's like saying that getting a small ice cream cone free is a "trial" and not actually free just because it's smaller than you want to get for free.
You think 25GB is sufficient for backup?
Maybe, maybe if you are just backing up data, and without a lot of backup revisions. (Please, no need to argue about the plusses/minuses of this strategy.
)who said anything about backup? it might be sufficient as a data store. We have around 30 GB of normal data... so it could replace a fileserver if we got down low enough.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
@BRRABill said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
Maybe there would be usable level like some products have for very SMB to use and learn and talk about to create buzz.
And there is! What more do you need? Why do you need more than this? Let's start there. How much data do you need to protect?
Well, I back up the entire server, as I am sure most SMB would do. (Again, I know we'd had a discussion here on ML many times about why this is not what you do.)
Anyway, the server files alone are probably more than 25GB, not even considering the data.
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@BRRABill said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
You think 25GB is sufficient for backup?
For tons of companies, yes, absolutely. See my article on that just today. It's certainly way more than NTG needs.
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@Dashrender said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
@BRRABill said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
@BRRABill said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
I guess my thinking was by making it seem "free" as opposed to a trial level, it's just marketing.
Well it is not limited in functionality, nor in time, nor in use cases. It's totally functional for its size tier and is in no way whatsoever a trial. And for many (most?) SMBs of a smaller size, it's more than the amount of actual data that they need to protect. It doesn't "seem" free, it's very much actually free and in no sense a trial.
That's like saying that getting a small ice cream cone free is a "trial" and not actually free just because it's smaller than you want to get for free.
You think 25GB is sufficient for backup?
Maybe, maybe if you are just backing up data, and without a lot of backup revisions. (Please, no need to argue about the plusses/minuses of this strategy.
)who said anything about backup? it might be sufficient as a data store. We have around 30 GB of normal data... so it could replace a fileserver if we got down low enough.
Scott did.
I asked, and he said it's primarily used for backup.
That is the scenario we are discussing.
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@BRRABill said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
@BRRABill said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
Maybe there would be usable level like some products have for very SMB to use and learn and talk about to create buzz.
And there is! What more do you need? Why do you need more than this? Let's start there. How much data do you need to protect?
Well, I back up the entire server, as I am sure most SMB would do. (Again, I know we'd had a discussion here on ML many times about why this is not what you do.)
Anyway, the server files alone are probably more than 25GB, not even considering the data.
But you don't need to, you are just deciding that you want to.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
@BRRABill said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
@BRRABill said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
Maybe there would be usable level like some products have for very SMB to use and learn and talk about to create buzz.
And there is! What more do you need? Why do you need more than this? Let's start there. How much data do you need to protect?
Well, I back up the entire server, as I am sure most SMB would do. (Again, I know we'd had a discussion here on ML many times about why this is not what you do.)
Anyway, the server files alone are probably more than 25GB, not even considering the data.
But you don't need to, you are just deciding that you want to.
HEY! That classifies as arguing.
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@BRRABill said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
Anyway, the server files alone are probably more than 25GB, not even considering the data.
But you don't need to backup server files. See said article
Nothing wrong with backing them up, but it's certainly not necessary. -
Here is the other issue, if you want them to give away enough for the bulk of their target audience to be good with the free tier rather than just really small firms and/or limited use cases within a firm, basically you are saying that the entire product should just be free. Which is fine to want, but you have to understand that that is what you are asking for. If they make it big enough on the free tier, who would pay as small business is the primary audience. The free tier is fine for the important data of basically any home, essentially any SOHO and a good number of SMBs that are careful i how they back things up - unless you are generating things like engineering collateral, most SMBs don't product gobs of data to back up. Certainly lots do, but lots and lots do not.
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@BRRABill said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
@Dashrender said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
@BRRABill said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
@BRRABill said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
I guess my thinking was by making it seem "free" as opposed to a trial level, it's just marketing.
Well it is not limited in functionality, nor in time, nor in use cases. It's totally functional for its size tier and is in no way whatsoever a trial. And for many (most?) SMBs of a smaller size, it's more than the amount of actual data that they need to protect. It doesn't "seem" free, it's very much actually free and in no sense a trial.
That's like saying that getting a small ice cream cone free is a "trial" and not actually free just because it's smaller than you want to get for free.
You think 25GB is sufficient for backup?
Maybe, maybe if you are just backing up data, and without a lot of backup revisions. (Please, no need to argue about the plusses/minuses of this strategy.
)who said anything about backup? it might be sufficient as a data store. We have around 30 GB of normal data... so it could replace a fileserver if we got down low enough.
Scott did.
I asked, and he said it's primarily used for backup.
That is the scenario we are discussing.
OK great - it's only one of the backups, i.e. it's not the offsite one. That will have to be a synced solution or a NAS/TAPE you carry offsite, etc.
Though I do agree with you - 25 GB is really not that usable. I have more in photos at home than that. At least Unitrends gives you 1 TB of backed up stuff.
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@Dashrender said
Though I do agree with you - 25 GB is really not that usable. I have more in photos at home than that. At least Unitrends gives you 1 TB of backed up stuff.
That was kind of what I was getting after, I think.
That their first paid level is more in line with other's free level, which is considerably more functional.
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@BRRABill said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
@Dashrender said
Though I do agree with you - 25 GB is really not that usable. I have more in photos at home than that. At least Unitrends gives you 1 TB of backed up stuff.
That was kind of what I was getting after, I think.
That their first paid level is more in line with other's free level, which is considerably more functional.
Unitrends 1TB for free. is your comparison I assume? That is not providing you with storage. Just that you can use it to store that much.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why Choose AetherStore Over a NAS?:
Here is the other issue, if you want them to give away enough for the bulk of their target audience to be good with the free tier rather than just really small firms and/or limited use cases within a firm, basically you are saying that the entire product should just be free. Which is fine to want, but you have to understand that that is what you are asking for. If they make it big enough on the free tier, who would pay as small business is the primary audience. The free tier is fine for the important data of basically any home, essentially any SOHO and a good number of SMBs that are careful i how they back things up - unless you are generating things like engineering collateral, most SMBs don't product gobs of data to back up. Certainly lots do, but lots and lots do not.
Again, that is assuming everyone works like you do, even at home.
I would like to take a vote and see, for example, how many people store their photos/music/videos etc all in cloud-based file-aware applications as you do, versus on their local machines.
