ML
    • Recent
    • Categories
    • Tags
    • Popular
    • Users
    • Groups
    • Register
    • Login

    You Cannot Virtualize That

    IT Discussion
    virtualization business best practices
    12
    34
    5.7k
    Loading More Posts
    • Oldest to Newest
    • Newest to Oldest
    • Most Votes
    Reply
    • Reply as topic
    Log in to reply
    This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
    • DustinB3403D
      DustinB3403
      last edited by

      To me the article makes sense, as I've said the same thing, but less verbose, time and again.

      Software vendors who sell a product but have odd requirements (IE Server 2003) are clearly there to just sell the product, when you have an issue they'll claim you're out of a support window, even though the product has that requirement.

      The bit about vendor space where existing vendors simply don't support common best practice and how there is a vacuum should be made more verbose.

      There is huge potential for businesses in this space.

      DashrenderD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
      • bbigfordB
        bbigford @scottalanmiller
        last edited by

        The one I usually get is licensing. "Well there is no way for us to get the licensing key read..."

        Me: "Well there's three ways off the top of my head I can think of... one is a key that calls home every 30 days. In which case we just need Internet connectivity, which we have, and then input a license key, which you could provide us. The other way is setting up a subscriber locally, and tie that into some subscription web client, similar to the first option works. The other is sending us a USB license, which we'd plug into the host so the VM can access it 24/7."

        Rep: "Mmm yeah that just won't work."

        That won't work for me, or for you? Cause those options consistently work for me. Probably won't work for you, cause you're not making any money off the appliance I don't need. 😄

        DashrenderD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
        • DashrenderD
          Dashrender @DustinB3403
          last edited by

          @DustinB3403 said in You Cannot Virtualize That:

          There is huge potential for businesses in this space.

          Huge potentials for what in what space?

          Maybe you mean:

          The bit about vendor space where existing vendors simply don't support common best practice and how there is a vacuum should be made more verbose.

          That maybe true - OK well we know it is, but it would often require the vendor who makes the crappy product to provide information they probably are unwilling to make.

          For example, I have a distribution client. They have to use the manufacture's software to gather the information they need to provide quotes to re sellers. In order to compete in this space, someone would have to write software that has access to the APIs of the manufacturer, if that's even possible. etc etc
          Being a super small market share, and the likely denial from the manufacturer, this project would never get off the ground.

          DustinB3403D scottalanmillerS 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • DashrenderD
            Dashrender @bbigford
            last edited by

            @BBigford said in You Cannot Virtualize That:

            The one I usually get is licensing. "Well there is no way for us to get the licensing key read..."

            Me: "Well there's three ways off the top of my head I can think of... one is a key that calls home every 30 days. In which case we just need Internet connectivity, which we have, and then input a license key, which you could provide us. The other way is setting up a subscriber locally, and tie that into some subscription web client, similar to the first option works. The other is sending us a USB license, which we'd plug into the host so the VM can access it 24/7."

            Rep: "Mmm yeah that just won't work."

            That won't work for me, or for you? Cause those options consistently work for me. Probably won't work for you, cause you're not making any money off the appliance I don't need. 😄

            In that situation, they just need to up the cost of the VM solution. Just look at Unitrends. Their VM pricing isn't that much less than their appliance solutions - and you have to provide ALL the hardware.

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
            • DustinB3403D
              DustinB3403 @Dashrender
              last edited by

              @Dashrender I think you're misunderstanding the idea.

              If there is Software vendor HealthCrap, and HealthCrap makes really crappy software, but it's the only software available. They have a monopoly, so any other software house could come along and make a competing software, that does the same thing, but better.

              And have it supported in virtual environments etc.

              Obviously the hurdles here include knowing what needs to be done, the cost of building a competitive product, federal regulations etc.

              Which aren't small by any means.

              But any IT person would (I hope) strive to get this software in house and dump the old one as soon as possible if it came available.

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • wrx7mW
                wrx7m
                last edited by

                I have had this same approach for some time. I can't imagine pulling the trigger on software with that type of requirement and it does lead me to believe that they are not actively developing and I would never have confidence in their ability to maintain/support the product, let alone grow with my organization's needs.

                prcssupportP 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                • prcssupportP
                  prcssupport @wrx7m
                  last edited by

                  @wrx7m said in You Cannot Virtualize That:

                  I have had this same approach for some time. I can't imagine pulling the trigger on software with that type of requirement and it does lead me to believe that they are not actively developing and I would never have confidence in their ability to maintain/support the product, let alone grow with my organization's needs.

                  I had a software vendor (existing) for one of my customers. As I learned about their product, and what was supported, and not. Then finding out that basic industry standards were unavailable I advised the customer against the solution.
                  To be fair to the software vendor this was a legacy solution from the early 90s. And the customer didn't like change. The vendor had updated offerings that included what was needed and advisable. He eventually switched when they EOL'd his solution and all support.

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • MattSpellerM
                    MattSpeller
                    last edited by MattSpeller

                    That's great and all, for sure we all agree virtualization is best. Not sure where else you're going with this. I guess that's enough by it's self but I'm left feeling.... unsatisfied.

                    I think you could cut all this down a lot by making a clearer point:

                    "Make virtualization support a key factor when shopping for new things".

                    or

                    "The importance of checking the recommended setup for new toys: don't get stuck with gear that does not virtualize"

                    I'm not sure what to tell you man...

                    DashrenderD scottalanmillerS 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • DashrenderD
                      Dashrender
                      last edited by

                      I think this is more general than that @MattSpeller. Don't buy things that won't provide support within the industry standard approach unless you have a very specific need that can't be otherwise met.

                      MattSpellerM 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                      • MattSpellerM
                        MattSpeller @Dashrender
                        last edited by MattSpeller

                        @Dashrender Virtualization is mentioned ~10? times in the first section... that seems focused enough for me 😛

                        Point taken (because it's a good one) though I disagree about the article's focus.

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • DashrenderD
                          Dashrender @MattSpeller
                          last edited by

                          You said

                          @MattSpeller said in You Cannot Virtualize That:

                          I guess that's enough by it's self but I'm left feeling.... unsatisfied.

                          I guess I didn't feel that way because I took a more generalized look at the article, and didn't limit it to only virtualization.

                          scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • scottalanmillerS
                            scottalanmiller @Dashrender
                            last edited by

                            @Dashrender said in You Cannot Virtualize That:

                            @DustinB3403 said in You Cannot Virtualize That:

                            There is huge potential for businesses in this space.

                            Huge potentials for what in what space?

                            Maybe you mean:

                            The bit about vendor space where existing vendors simply don't support common best practice and how there is a vacuum should be made more verbose.

                            That maybe true - OK well we know it is, but it would often require the vendor who makes the crappy product to provide information they probably are unwilling to make.

                            For example, I have a distribution client. They have to use the manufacture's software to gather the information they need to provide quotes to re sellers. In order to compete in this space, someone would have to write software that has access to the APIs of the manufacturer, if that's even possible. etc etc
                            Being a super small market share, and the likely denial from the manufacturer, this project would never get off the ground.

                            In that case the issue is bigger but NOT one of APIs, right? It would be one of replicating bad software AND a bad manufacturer.

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • scottalanmillerS
                              scottalanmiller @MattSpeller
                              last edited by

                              @MattSpeller said in You Cannot Virtualize That:

                              That's great and all, for sure we all agree virtualization is best. Not sure where else you're going with this. I guess that's enough by it's self but I'm left feeling.... unsatisfied.

                              I think you could cut all this down a lot by making a clearer point:

                              "Make virtualization support a key factor when shopping for new things".

                              or

                              "The importance of checking the recommended setup for new toys: don't get stuck with gear that does not virtualize"

                              I'm not sure what to tell you man...

                              It's not fully about virtualization, though, it's about not being production ready and when you can identify that. And disputing the "we need X so that we can run in production" when X implies you can't run in production. It's pointing out the paradox of buying hobby class software in a business using production needs as an excuse.

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • scottalanmillerS
                                scottalanmiller @Dashrender
                                last edited by

                                @Dashrender said in You Cannot Virtualize That:

                                You said

                                @MattSpeller said in You Cannot Virtualize That:

                                I guess that's enough by it's self but I'm left feeling.... unsatisfied.

                                I guess I didn't feel that way because I took a more generalized look at the article, and didn't limit it to only virtualization.

                                Maybe the title is just wrong 🙂

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • dafyreD
                                  dafyre
                                  last edited by

                                  0_1474376004914_upload-15ccf60c-4739-4e64-ae76-a1f0c735beb1

                                  My response to the Title would be: "Wanna bet?"

                                  Sure, you'd lose support if you virtualized something they told you not to... but companies are trying to get out of doing support anyway.

                                  But like anything else, that'd be more of a business decision than an IT one.

                                  scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                  • scottalanmillerS
                                    scottalanmiller @dafyre
                                    last edited by

                                    @dafyre said in You Cannot Virtualize That:

                                    0_1474376004914_upload-15ccf60c-4739-4e64-ae76-a1f0c735beb1

                                    My response to the Title would be: "Wanna bet?"

                                    Sure, you'd lose support if you virtualized something they told you not to... but companies are trying to get out of doing support anyway.

                                    But like anything else, that'd be more of a business decision than an IT one.

                                    Should be all one and the same. All IT decisions should be in a business context. The idea that there could be a business vs IT decision should not exist and implies a management structure that isn't aware of what the role of IT even is. The only reason that IT cares about virtualization is because it, too, is a business decision.

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                    • AdamFA
                                      AdamF
                                      last edited by

                                      "You Cannot Virtualize That" = "Challenge accepted"

                                      I've run into this with a very popular 3D drafting software company. In the end, I was just convinced that the "you cannot visualize that" mandate is simply a way for them to blame virtualization for problems with their software. In other words, if you have a problem, and their support cannot figure out the solution, they will always come back to the fact that you virtualized their product, which is "not supported."

                                      Also, why isn't virtualize in my computer's dictionary? 😕

                                      DustinB3403D dafyreD 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                      • DustinB3403D
                                        DustinB3403 @AdamF
                                        last edited by

                                        @fuznutz04 said in You Cannot Virtualize That:

                                        Also, why isn't virtualize in my computer's dictionary? 😕

                                        Because many of the browsers actually don't have the word in their dictionaries...

                                        AdamFA 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                        • AdamFA
                                          AdamF @DustinB3403
                                          last edited by

                                          @DustinB3403 said in You Cannot Virtualize That:

                                          @fuznutz04 said in You Cannot Virtualize That:

                                          Also, why isn't virtualize in my computer's dictionary? 😕

                                          Because many of the browsers actually don't have the word in their dictionaries...

                                          🙂 I know, I'm just pointing it that I don't like it. haha

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • pchiodoP
                                            pchiodo
                                            last edited by

                                            I've had two software vendors tell me these exact words. In both cases, I was able to virtualize their products without issue. One even had the audacity to say that the SQL server supporting the application couldn't be virtualized IN A 3 TIER environment.

                                            As far as support, I don't necessarily tell them it's virtualized, and have yet to have them not support the issue nor fix the issue. In my mind there is no difference between an application on a virtual box and one on a physical box.

                                            scottalanmillerS 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 4
                                            • 1
                                            • 2
                                            • 1 / 2
                                            • First post
                                              Last post