Hypervisor, hypervisor - who's got the best hypervisor?
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@Dashrender said:
@coliver said:
@Dashrender said:
@DustinB3403 said:
Before I answer, what features are you currently lacking from VMware? Is there something that you're needing that you just can't get with VMware or is this cost justifiable?
Is what cost justifiable?
If you're talking about the conversion cost (mostly in my time), then yes I'd say it's justifiable so I get away from bad investments, i.e. paying for updates to ESXi Essentials. (damn I forget the phrase that Scott always uses).
Beyond that - no I am lacking no features/functions that I want.
You're already invested in ESXi that's a sunk cost so you have to weigh the cost of migration and support of your new infrastructure against the ongoing maintenance and support licenses from VMWare. From what I've heard from people who have done the migration it saves money in the long term.
Which saves them money in the long term? Migrating or not migrating?
Migrating, sorry for not being clear. The migration saves money almost every time.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@coliver said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@coliver said:
You have a lot of Windows, it may be easier to manage if you maintain the same stack. Not saying XenServer is hard or anything, I actually find it easier, but Hyper-V is very capable and you already have the Windows Infrastructure in place to support it.
Hyper-V is the hardest to use regardless of stack, IMHO. Not sure when it would be chosen based on ease of use. If you are an all Windows shop and wanted ease of use, I think XenServer still wins.
I'm not sure about that. An all Windows shop and ease of use may go to Hyper-V. I haven't managed XenServer in production so I'm not sure but Hyper-V is super simple, almost as simple as XenServer, it does also have API hooks for software like Unitrends and Veeam if @Dashrender uses either of those applications.
XenServer has API for Unitrends too.
However, if I recall correctly, there is a free version of Unitrends for other Hyper-V and VMswear, but not XenServer. Is that correct?
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@JaredBusch said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@JaredBusch said:
@Dashrender I would use Hyper-V for the 3rd party tools. XenServer if I had all the time in the world to do everything myself.
What kinds of things do you need to do yourself in XenServer? it has a great third party tooling ecosystem too. Just most of it is free rather than much of it being pay only.
Obviously, the 900# gorilla. Backups.
Can I do it natively for free with both solutions? Yes.
Can I get a solid reliable and supported 3rd party solution for both systems? Not that I have seen for XenServer yet.If you are concerned about backups, Unitrends does offer a paid version for XenServer.
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@JaredBusch said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@JaredBusch said:
@Dashrender I would use Hyper-V for the 3rd party tools. XenServer if I had all the time in the world to do everything myself.
What kinds of things do you need to do yourself in XenServer? it has a great third party tooling ecosystem too. Just most of it is free rather than much of it being pay only.
Obviously, the 900# gorilla. Backups.
Can I do it natively for free with both solutions? Yes.
Can I get a solid reliable and supported 3rd party solution for both systems? Not that I have seen for XenServer yet.You don't feel that the Unitrends XenServer solution is reliable? What issues have you had with it?
What about the free Xen Orchestra backup solution for XS? I've not used that one, but it is third party and @DustinB3403 has been having good luck with it.
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@dafyre said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@coliver said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@coliver said:
You have a lot of Windows, it may be easier to manage if you maintain the same stack. Not saying XenServer is hard or anything, I actually find it easier, but Hyper-V is very capable and you already have the Windows Infrastructure in place to support it.
Hyper-V is the hardest to use regardless of stack, IMHO. Not sure when it would be chosen based on ease of use. If you are an all Windows shop and wanted ease of use, I think XenServer still wins.
I'm not sure about that. An all Windows shop and ease of use may go to Hyper-V. I haven't managed XenServer in production so I'm not sure but Hyper-V is super simple, almost as simple as XenServer, it does also have API hooks for software like Unitrends and Veeam if @Dashrender uses either of those applications.
XenServer has API for Unitrends too.
However, if I recall correctly, there is a free version of Unitrends for other Hyper-V and VMswear, but not XenServer. Is that correct?
That is correct, currently UT has not made their XS product free. The free one for the other platforms is probably too limited for @Dashrender scale anyway, though.
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I will never buy Unitrends (at least not at this company). It's just to darned expensive.
That said, I really like Veeam, and I think it would actually save me a fair amount over my renewal costs from AppAssure Replay, after I consolidate everything.
I've seen Dustin's posts about backups, and I just don't want to deal with that!
I love the continuous forever backups that I currently have with Replay, and makes me grimmis a little knowing that Veeam wants you to do a full backup on a regular schedule.
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@Dashrender said:
I will never buy Unitrends (at least not at this company). It's just to darned expensive.
have yo upriced out their XS backup software?
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Not saying that they are cheap, I don't know the pricing. I only know that UT XS software backup is not likely too closely tied in price to their non-XS hardware backups.
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Veeam is really nice but their focus on the VMware / Hyper-V world is disappointing. Very much so. Which is why they've focused on the midmarket and I think are looking at a big shakeup as I see Vmware losing a ton of ground now that they are so dramatically behind the ball.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Veeam is really nice but their focus on the VMware / Hyper-V world is disappointing. Very much so. Which is why they've focused on the midmarket and I think are looking at a big shakeup as I see Vmware losing a ton of ground now that they are so dramatically behind the ball.
Agreed, it is disappointing that Veeam doesn't tie in directly with XS.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Not saying that they are cheap, I don't know the pricing. I only know that UT XS software backup is not likely too closely tied in price to their non-XS hardware backups.
The last time I looked at Unitrends, the software only solution was something like $2K per TB of backup. I haven't looked at anything of XS offerings.
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I plan to repurpose one of the old EHR servers as a dedicated backup server using it's internal storage for primary, then replicate for a secondary set.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Veeam is really nice but their focus on the VMware / Hyper-V world is disappointing. Very much so. Which is why they've focused on the midmarket and I think are looking at a big shakeup as I see Vmware losing a ton of ground now that they are so dramatically behind the ball.
Agreed, it is disappointing that Veeam doesn't tie in directly with XS.
They've stated that they don't feel that the market is big enough to care about. Which to some degree is true, because the SMB tends to use free tools and don't show up on the radar and the enterprise space uses cloud and isn't uses Veeam. Their focus on the midmarket is a big factor in their decisions as well as the fact that players like them don't offer their tools for XS keeps it out of the midmarket.
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@Dashrender said:
I will never buy Unitrends (at least not at this company). It's just to darned expensive.
That said, I really like Veeam, and I think it would actually save me a fair amount over my renewal costs from AppAssure Replay, after I consolidate everything.
I've seen Dustin's posts about backups, and I just don't want to deal with that!
I love the continuous forever backups that I currently have with Replay, and makes me grimmis a little knowing that Veeam wants you to do a full backup on a regular schedule.
Don't want to deal with what?
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The XO backups seemed pretty simple. Was it complex?
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Don't forget there are agent-based vendors too. StorageCraft, for example, works fine on XS and gives you pretty much everything that you are looking for.
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@scottalanmiller Not in the least, my biggest pain was getting CentOS up and running because I hadn't done it before.
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Originally Dustin could only get full backups, no incremental/differential ones. I see that has been solved by using XO.
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@DustinB3403 were you able to do your backups with the free version of XO, or did you buy it? The pricing seems a bit high at a glance, but I haven't really evaluated it closely.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Don't forget there are agent-based vendors too. StorageCraft, for example, works fine on XS and gives you pretty much everything that you are looking for.
And I have that today with AppAssure Replay. I can get agents for Windows and Linux. But their cost is really high. Veeam smokes them in this space.
One of the things that AppAssure Replay 4 had (I don't think 5 does - but have to check) was the ability to actually use the VM during a restore process. While it was slow as molasses, it was an option if you had to get something back online fast. though I'll admit I don't need that feature.
