Wiping Data or Shredding the Drive
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So there was a topic on another forum that kind of got my blood boiling. Specifically because one of the posters believes that shattering a hard drive (specifically drilling 3 holes into it) is a secure means of getting rid of data from a drive.
Now this completely foolish to believe. If it were does anyone here believe that the U.S. Gov't wouldn't just but a massive tree shredder to rid themselves of failed drives?
Of course they would, it would be so much more cost effective to simply, throw it in the shredder.
Think of it like shredding (or drilling 3 little holes into) a piece of paper, the information is still on the paper, its just in really small pieces that can be reassembled. Sure some data is gone, but likely 99% of the data is still there.
Will many people or businesses go this far to get information from a scrapped disk, probably not. But the data is still there, so if they were motivated enough that information could (and I use this word gleefully) easily enough be recovered.
Only by systematically wiping the disk with tools like DBAN with government grade system wiping can you ensure the disk is "clean". And a single pass won't do.
It's why DBAN and every other tool has a "# of passes option", along with algorithms to write data to the disk. Random, 1's 0's etc. And to different degree's of "clean".
Does anyone agree with the above idea, 3 holes is good enough. If so why?
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@DustinB3403 said:
Of course they would, it would be so much more cost effective to simply, throw it in the shredder.
As someone who ran IT for a company that did disk destruction for hospitals and ran its own industrial shredders this isn't true. We still drilled out drives because they were so costly to shred.
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@scottalanmiller In comparison to using wiping software to rid the disk of the data.
A "tree shredder" is cheaper in comparison to the time and money to properly wipe the disk.
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@DustinB3403 said:
Only by systematically wiping the disk with tools like DBAN with government grade system wiping can you ensure the disk is "clean". And a single pass won't do.
Is that really true? I'm not sure that that really holds up. Shredding is very expensive and quite bad for the environment. There are good reasons to avoid it even if it does more to destroy the data.
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@DustinB3403 said:
@scottalanmiller In comparison to using wiping software to rid the disk of the data.
A tree shredder is cheaper in comparison to the time and money to properly wipe the disk.
A drive would shred a tree shredder. The cost of a shredder than can survive disk destruction is very high and the tooth replacement rate goes way up.
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Let's ping @eric who has over a decade running what is probably the biggest shredding facilities in the Rochester area.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@DustinB3403 said:
Only by systematically wiping the disk with tools like DBAN with government grade system wiping can you ensure the disk is "clean". And a single pass won't do.
Is that really true? I'm not sure that that really holds up. Shredding is very expensive and quite bad for the environment. There are good reasons to avoid it even if it does more to destroy the data.
So you agree or disagree that using wiping software is a better solution?
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Or more to the OP, why wouldn't the US Gov't simply purchase a 3-Bit Drill and assembly line drill out their disk once they were done with them if this was such a secure way of destroying the data on the disks.
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@DustinB3403 said:
Think of it like shredding (or drilling 3 little holes into) a piece of paper, the information is still on the paper, its just in really small pieces that can be reassembled. Sure some data is gone, but likely 99% of the data is still there.
Indeed. And most companies are happy with shredding paper - it's not perfect, but it is "good enough" to satisfy their security concerns.
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@DustinB3403 said:
So you agree or disagree that using wiping software is a better solution?
I'm saying that I don't have enough information about hard core data recovery from either method to adequately compare. And "best" would be determined with cost as a factor as cost is always a factor in determining "best" in any business scenario. So coming up with a realistic cost of each approach, effectiveness and risk and then putting those together to understand what best is would be required.
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@DustinB3403 said:
Or more to the OP, why wouldn't the US Gov't simply purchase a 3-Bit Drill and assembly line drill out their disk once they were done with them if this was such a secure way of destroying the data on the disks.
Might still be cheaper to wipe than to drill. And wiping means that they can be recycled, which is a big deal. And by recycled, I mean reused or re purposed.
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Here, we usa giant deagauss machine. Effectively the same as wiping the drives with DBAN... only quicker.
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The paper shredding company that one of my clients uses accepts hard drives.
They only stipulate that you let them know in advance so that they can schedule it as either the first of last stop for the shredding vehicle.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Might still be cheaper to wipe than to drill. And wiping means that they can be recycled, which is a big deal. And by recycled, I mean reused or re purposed.
I always prefer this method personally. There is very little cost in labor hours once a rig is setup. You plug in the drives, boot, configure, and walk away.
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@JaredBusch said:
The paper shredding company that one of my clients uses accepts hard drives.
They only stipulate that you let them know in advance so that they can schedule it as either the first of last stop for the shredding vehicle.
Large scale paper shredding is one of the hardest things for a shredder to handle. The famous test was just throwing phone books in them. Those things are murder on shredders.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@JaredBusch said:
The paper shredding company that one of my clients uses accepts hard drives.
They only stipulate that you let them know in advance so that they can schedule it as either the first of last stop for the shredding vehicle.
Large scale paper shredding is one of the hardest things for a shredder to handle. The famous test was just throwing phone books in them. Those things are murder on shredders.
I've hired industrial shredders (ShredIT), they roll up to the site with a truck turn the shredder on and go to town. Sure there are some files that are larger than others and cause the engine to work a bit harder. But they get the job done.
I've shredded entire years worth of data in a single day. Over 4000 car sales from years previous. . .
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@scottalanmiller said:
@DustinB3403 said:
@scottalanmiller In comparison to using wiping software to rid the disk of the data.
A tree shredder is cheaper in comparison to the time and money to properly wipe the disk.
A drive would shred a tree shredder. The cost of a shredder than can survive disk destruction is very high and the tooth replacement rate goes way up.
I tree shredder is mechanically different than the offset 'gear' shredded needed for a hard drive.
I worked for a company out of Florida years ago called Shred-all. The shredder we had was a beast. 14 plates in a row offset with another row. the plates were 1/4inch 'teeth'. It was run by a 60 HP 3 phase motor that was geared 600:1 (or so).
It would eat just about anything that got into the teeth. we lost a few tools and brooms in it. Someone thought it funny to drop a wrench in it,.. it bounced around a bit as it went through and chipped a few of the teeth, but kept going.
But to do Hard drive,,.. you'd need steel plates.. Alum just won't do.
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For me, I run the DoD level using either GDISK or DBAN - either a custom pass or the 'normal' 7 pass write. IF the disk works.
If it fails, and it's MY HD - I'll pull it apart. I've thought about making up some Thermite but haven't done so. I've seen people make their own destroyer out of a bottle jack and a cold chisel.....
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@gjacobse I hope that the company made them buy that wrench and pay for the damage to the teeth.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@JaredBusch said:
The paper shredding company that one of my clients uses accepts hard drives.
They only stipulate that you let them know in advance so that they can schedule it as either the first of last stop for the shredding vehicle.
Large scale paper shredding is one of the hardest things for a shredder to handle. The famous test was just throwing phone books in them. Those things are murder on shredders.
Actually plain white paper is harder. Phone books are printed on 'newsprint' paper.. a really soft paper.
