@jaredbusch said in Mobile Payments:

@zachary715 said in Mobile Payments:

Mobile payments aren't a new thing. They've been around a few years and it seems like now everyone has their own mobile payment platform. I think the three strongest players in this game are Apply Pay, Samsung Pay, and Android Pay. There's also Paypal and the like, but I'm talking mostly about storing credit card info in your phone and paying through an NFC terminal.

I've always wanted to try these (Android Pay) but for some reason have been reluctant. The more I've read lately, it seems that in reality these can be more secure than regular credit card payments using the new chip reader.

My question to you all is have you used before or do you currently use some form of mobile payment solution? If so, which one and why? What has been your experiences? What needs to be improved? Do you find that mobile payments are more secure than regular credit card transaction at a chip or swipe terminal?

Do not forget that Walmart is setting up their own thing. That will be huge also.

How will it be huge? Will it only be usable at Wal-Mart stores? What benefits might it bring from using their mobile payment platform outside of a Wal-Mart store?

@jaredbusch said in Mobile Payments:

@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:

The paranoid person in me is screaming no because I'd be storing my card information onto a device that I only half way trust.

That is not how any of that works.

That's part of why I wanted to start this conversation was to eliminate any misconceptions out there. My understanding was that they do not store your credit card number but store randomized tokens. Every time you make a payment, it gives the terminal a new, random token linked to your card so that if Target gets hacked, all they have from you is a random token that is no longer valid or linked to your card.

In addition, if your device were to get stolen or lost, you could disable access I believe from a web portal based on which service you use. If you're using fingerprint authentication like @JaredBusch stated with Apple Pay, then no one could make a transaction anyway.

I feel like this is something I want to try out, just looking to dispel any myths and get all my information before jumping in.

Mobile payments aren't a new thing. They've been around a few years and it seems like now everyone has their own mobile payment platform. I think the three strongest players in this game are Apply Pay, Samsung Pay, and Android Pay. There's also Paypal and the like, but I'm talking mostly about storing credit card info in your phone and paying through an NFC terminal.

I've always wanted to try these (Android Pay) but for some reason have been reluctant. The more I've read lately, it seems that in reality these can be more secure than regular credit card payments using the new chip reader.

My question to you all is have you used before or do you currently use some form of mobile payment solution? If so, which one and why? What has been your experiences? What needs to be improved? Do you find that mobile payments are more secure than regular credit card transaction at a chip or swipe terminal?

First one I used was I believe Windows 95 at my school when I was in elementary. Couldn't tell you what brand but I seem to think IBM.

First one I owned was an HP Pavilion laptop in 2007. Very sentimental when that thing died on me.

It's fairly common knowledge (speculation) that one of our Senators has Alzheimber's, Dementia, or something of the like, yet somehow this knowledge wasn't enough to get him dethroned during his most recent election. When you've been there long enough and have some clout, people just get scared of losing that power and with it losing money for your state.

@dustinb3403 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:

@zachary715 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:

Just curious @DustinB3403 how you feel about scholarships given prior to attending college, even without knowing if that individual will get a "meaningful" degree. Or how you feel about athletic scholarships that pay for school just because of a skill that rarely translates to a job down the road.

Scholarships are based on proven metrics, I don't have an issue here in most cases. I've also never received any.

Grades, athletic performance etc etc. In the public space, say community college giving an athletic scholarship I think is worthless and a waste of resources.

Academic scholarships I see as worthwhile and worth the investment.

I've seen people with high GPA and ACT (SAT) scores get lots of money for college only to blow it partying and on worthless degrees. I think I'd rather someone get the scholarship on the back-end (forgiveness/help with repayment) after they've proved their worth vs some bogus test they took at 16 years old.

@scottalanmiller said in Notorious Short-seller labels Ubiquiti Networks $UBNT as FRAUD:

@jmoore said in Notorious Short-seller labels Ubiquiti Networks $UBNT as FRAUD:

@storageninja I get that.All good ideas.I have thought about the Index funds and that option seems decent. I do enjoy the fun of researching companies and buying a few shares of stocks too. I have never lost money over a years time but dont make much either. Depending on the year its like 5-15% increase. Not sure if that keeps up with inflation at the low end lol.

Just remember that that "fun" comes from the risk. It's your money and nothing wrong with it, but Index funds are the safest. So if you are using terms like "divesting" which is a risk reduction strategy, but not using Index funds, that's an odd mix.

Although I understand what you probably mean here and you're just oversimplifying, I can't stand when people say this as a general term. It's not the "safest" for someone near retirement to be parked in an S&P index fund. Over the long run historically, index funds have outperformed like 86% of active funds yes, but that doesn't mean that just parking in an S&P fund is safe for everyone. People still need to understand even basically what's going on in the market and know how to move money around to protect assets as they approach retirement.

Disclaimer: Majority of my money is currently parked in an S&P index fund

@jmoore said in Notorious Short-seller labels Ubiquiti Networks $UBNT as FRAUD:

@scottalanmiller For the the fun part is researching companies and finding out about cool things they do or have done in the past.

I never used the term "divesting" but i see its value. I just asked about good sources so that I could know a bit more things that are going on. I know about index funds but I want to be more involved.

I would say find you some good podcasts to listen to. I listen to many of The Motley Fool podcasts during my commutes.

Motley Fool Market Foolery (Monday - Thursday)
Motley Fool Money (Fridays)
Motley Fool Answers (Tuesday or Wednesday I think)
Motley Fool Industry Focus (Weekdays)

Just curious @DustinB3403 how you feel about scholarships given prior to attending college, even without knowing if that individual will get a "meaningful" degree. Or how you feel about athletic scholarships that pay for school just because of a skill that rarely translates to a job down the road.

@storageninja said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:

@zachary715 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:

HIs whole argument here is that it's the public sector which is offering this benefit with "our" tax dollars. I think he's fine with private businesses doing this same matter because they aren't operating with a $20trillion and growing debt with no solution in sight

The alternatives are raising salaries a bunch for government roles (unpopular), or only historically rich, or the very stupid will end up working in government as the private sector absorbs everyone with debt who's smart. All of these options suck

Or raising taxes on everyone to allow gov't employees to be paid comparable wages to privately employed. Still sucks lol

@penguinwrangler said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:

@zachary715 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:

@storageninja said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:

@dustinb3403 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:

@penguinwrangler said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:

@dustinb3403 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:

@momurda said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:

That isnt how it works from @PenguinWrangler description.
The forgiveness will be taxed as income, probably at the rate bonuses/lottery income, much higher than regular income unless he is making tons of money(he isnt if working for feds).
He is essentially an indentured servant to the federal government for the next decade.

Also, people saying the government shouldnt be spending money on education, LOL.
It should be the highest expenditure of the federal government and local governments.
It should dwarf the War Department's budget.

Spending on education is fine, spending to remove debt that someone agreed to is that individual persons responsibility. Not the public's responsibility.

I understand what you are saying. I get where you are coming from. I have set myself and family up to have my loans paid off in the next 5 to 7 years. Without the forgiveness. I have been eating a lot of ramen and pb&j for lunch. We have been watching our money closely. Whether or not the government should do this is one thing. I would be stupid not to take it though when it is available to me.

My stance isn't with you. It's with the system, how it's rigged and royally helping 1 and screwing over 1000.

You said your self that this 63K debt is tax-free. That's insane.

Depends on which tax schedule you use.
The tax on 63K at long-term capital gains rate (it's a long-term payback, and it's not THAT much money) is 12% or ~7.56K note a huge amount.

Also, lots of stuff is tax-free. I didn't pay taxes on the money I put into my 401K. That's $5940 (or $11,880 joint filed, as I'm maxing out my wife's account) worth of taxes I'm not paying every year! The earnings in my Roth IRA are tax-free (I put in 11K last year, and the 8% gains for the year on it are tax-free!)

Semantics here.... but assuming traditional 401k, that's tax-deferred not free. On the Roth side though you are correct earnings are tax free.

The money you put into a Roth IRA is free, not the earnings. If you put in a ROTH IRA 10,000 and earnn 2,000 the 10,000 is tax free because, you have already paid taxes on that 10,000. The 2,000 it earned can be taxed. I have been checking on what to do with my 401K

No you're confused. In a Roth scenario, your contributions are after-tax, meaning you would put the $10,000 dollars in after you've already paid taxes on it. Whatever you earn from investing that $10,000, in your example $2,000, would then be dispersed tax-free as long as you meet the requirements.

In a Roth scenario, all money is put in after you've paid taxes on it, but money is taken out tax-free, meaning no double taxation and no tax on earnings.

@dashrender said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:

@dustinb3403 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:

@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:

@dashrender said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:

What torqued my wife and I off was that a new program was put in place for teachers to have gov't funded loans forgiven, but she didn't qualify because she was before the start date they picked. But of course all the teachers since then.... HUGE reduction in student loan fees.

All of that said - I'm with Dustin in that the government shouldn't be using public money to put people through college. The government, often requiring college degrees, just furthers a system of waste and control.

I'm the opposite, the gov't should put everyone through college. It's the picking and choosing that is the problem.

I'm not against fully funded community college for everyone. I'm against forgiving debts that people have promised to pay back because a person is unable to find a higher paying job.

You agreed to the terms of the loan, now pay it back. Sorry you can't get/find a better job. Not the public's issue.

I'm just not picking up what you're putting down. The loan came from the government, so the government has that as a benefit for working for them...

If the loan came from Wells Fargo, and you went to work for them, then they would have that as an option to offer you.

Question - do you think it's BS that people that work for Cox Communication get free free cable/phone/internet because they work there? The loan forgiveness as a government employee is really no different.

HIs whole argument here is that it's the public sector which is offering this benefit with "our" tax dollars. I think he's fine with private businesses doing this same matter because they aren't operating with a $20trillion and growing debt with no solution in sight.

@storageninja said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:

@dustinb3403 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:

@penguinwrangler said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:

@dustinb3403 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:

@momurda said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:

That isnt how it works from @PenguinWrangler description.
The forgiveness will be taxed as income, probably at the rate bonuses/lottery income, much higher than regular income unless he is making tons of money(he isnt if working for feds).
He is essentially an indentured servant to the federal government for the next decade.

Also, people saying the government shouldnt be spending money on education, LOL.
It should be the highest expenditure of the federal government and local governments.
It should dwarf the War Department's budget.

Spending on education is fine, spending to remove debt that someone agreed to is that individual persons responsibility. Not the public's responsibility.

I understand what you are saying. I get where you are coming from. I have set myself and family up to have my loans paid off in the next 5 to 7 years. Without the forgiveness. I have been eating a lot of ramen and pb&j for lunch. We have been watching our money closely. Whether or not the government should do this is one thing. I would be stupid not to take it though when it is available to me.

My stance isn't with you. It's with the system, how it's rigged and royally helping 1 and screwing over 1000.

You said your self that this 63K debt is tax-free. That's insane.

Depends on which tax schedule you use.
The tax on 63K at long-term capital gains rate (it's a long-term payback, and it's not THAT much money) is 12% or ~7.56K note a huge amount.

Also, lots of stuff is tax-free. I didn't pay taxes on the money I put into my 401K. That's $5940 (or $11,880 joint filed, as I'm maxing out my wife's account) worth of taxes I'm not paying every year! The earnings in my Roth IRA are tax-free (I put in 11K last year, and the 8% gains for the year on it are tax-free!)

Semantics here.... but assuming traditional 401k, that's tax-deferred not free. On the Roth side though you are correct earnings are tax free.

@mike-davis said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:

@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:

I'm the opposite, the gov't should put everyone through college. It's the picking and choosing that is the problem.

This is something that is often overlooked. People often site Finland as having free college - and they do - but they don't tell the whole story. Finland's department of education realized that if any more than 69% of the population goes to college, they won't have enough blue collar workers, so they have national entrance exams. If you don't do well there, you don't go to college.

I don't know about you guys, but where I live there are PLENTY of people who have no desire to go sit in a classroom for another 4-5 years. Many of the men just want to go to work in blue collar fields. This may not be the case everywhere though.

@momurda said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:

@zachary715 The education budget is a joke.
The way schoools are funded by property tax is a joke.
You want to fix this country.
Reduce the War department budget by 90%, increase the education department budget by 400%.

I'm not saying schools couldn't use more money. I'm sure they absolutely could. I'm just saying that throwing dollars at the problem isn't always the easy fix. If "education" were a business, they'd be looking at how to get smarter and do things differently than they have been to get better results. Our schools/education system needs to get more efficient and more modern.

But I still disagree with you on defense spending. That's another area that REALLY needs some efficiency is how dollars are spent, but reducing it by 90% is likely unrealistic and careless.

@momurda said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:

That isnt how it works from @PenguinWrangler description.
The forgiveness will be taxed as income, probably at the rate bonuses/lottery income, much higher than regular income unless he is making tons of money(he isnt if working for feds).
He is essentially an indentured servant to the federal government for the next decade.

Also, people saying the government shouldnt be spending money on education, LOL.
It should be the highest expenditure of the federal government and local governments.
It should dwarf the War Department's budget.

You don't solve problems by just throwing money at them. We've been trying that with education and it isn't working. I agree that education should be a priority, but that doesn't always equate to dollars spent. The gov't is (seemingly) highly inefficient with the way they currently spend our dollars.

And no, education shouldn't be higher than our defense budget. I wish they could be closer (due to less demand of need for defense) but unfortunately we live in a messed up world with some crazy people. Our government's first and most important responsibility is the protection of its citizens.

@dashrender said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:

What torqued my wife and I off was that a new program was put in place for teachers to have gov't funded loans forgiven, but she didn't qualify because she was before the start date they picked. But of course all the teachers since then.... HUGE reduction in student loan fees.

All of that said - I'm with Dustin in that the government shouldn't be using public money to put people through college. The government, often requiring college degrees, just furthers a system of waste and control.

I generally am a conservative-leaning person, but I have thought a decent amount about this issue and if the right solution was proposed, I believe I could get behind using public money to subsidize or pay for college education. The reason being is that from a gov't standpoint, this could be viewed as an investment. You aren't handing out a benefit that gives you zero return like many other gov't programs. In this scenario, you would be giving someone an opportunity to increase their job opportunities (less unemployment) and make higher wages which would then mean higher tax revenue for the gov't.

For instance, according to the latest numbers from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the median annual wage for a HS graduate is roughly $36,000. An Associate's Degree earns a median of $42,500, and a Bachelor's earns a median of $60,000.

The average cost of public university tuition and fees per year currently is around $10,000. So it costs $40,000 - $50,000, on average, for a Bachelor's Degree at a 4-year public, in-state university. Median earnings tell us though that those individuals with the 4 year degree are earning almost double the wages in comparison. If we stretch this out across a 40 year working career, that's an additional $960,000 that an individual is earning, spending, investing, and paying taxes on. If an individual paid even 10% in taxes through those 40 years, the gov't has earned an additional $96k based on that initial $40-50k investment.

Now this obviously isn't perfect math and there are many other variables. It makes no sense to pay $40k+ in some tuition for some bogus degree that will get someone nowhere. Maybe they could start a program like this from STEM related fields or fields that meet a certain job demand criteria.

Ultimately this wouldn't feel like a handout decision to me, but rather a business decision the gov't would be making to bring in more revenue long term.

From https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/dubaisec/2016/01/28/windows-update-categories/

Pretty much all updates are now cumulative. The security or critical part is just simply how it's classified.

In regards to your second question, my line of thinking would be to see what the non-security critical issue is that the patch is resolving. Are you seeing the issue yourself? If yes, patch immediately. If no, give it a week or two and let others patch first to ensure it doesn't break anything else. If all looks clear, apply in during your next scheduled patch cycle.

@jmoore said in Notorious Short-seller labels Ubiquiti Networks $UBNT as FRAUD:

Yeah its just a shame I didnt have any money available to put into Ubiquity when they dropped. Could have got some slightly cheaper stock. I am not worried about any of these allegations.

It was sitting between $45-50 for 6 months earlier this year, and this fraud accusation didn't even get it below $50. If you were going to buy, should have done it then.

@scottalanmiller said in Notorious Short-seller labels Ubiquiti Networks $UBNT as FRAUD:

@dashrender said in Notorious Short-seller labels Ubiquiti Networks $UBNT as FRAUD:

@zachary715 said in Notorious Short-seller labels Ubiquiti Networks $UBNT as FRAUD:

Buying and running another company isn't comparable to jogging, mountain climbing, vacationing, or any of the other examples you used.

You're kidding right? you can easily dive into those sports as much as one can dive into running a company (especially mountain climbing).

Exactly. Those things take very big as much time as running a company, and no one said he was running another company, just investing.

Come on guys we're grasping here. Comparing hobbies and physical health to running a company?? Give me a break. And when you're a majority stakeholder of a company, you aren't just "investing". You're now a decision maker. How much time he will have to put into that may be small or large. I DON'T KNOW. I'm just saying if it required a good amount of time and focus, I could see where this COULD concern investors. If it doesn't concern you, then you aren't one of those investors.