Solved Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking
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@scottalanmiller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@MattSpeller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@thwr said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@MattSpeller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
Yet I don't feel that we've bashed, we've discussed their topics, and how to address the issues / initially configure the issues.
This has been one of the exceptionally few things that bothers me about this forum. For my two cents I think we should keep the cross linking to a bare minimum and for interesting / news topics only. It does not "feel right" most of the time when I read about posts from there.
This community can be a little... predatory... on the folks less experienced in IT. Well intentioned, absolutely. But a little vicious to the unwary.
Well, this very community IS IT. Also, ML's NodeBB is a very fast paced system, that's another problem / feature.
To take up some cludges for @DustinB3403, it was not him alone. We're all shaking our heads about all the quiz questions, @Dashrender called it "beating a dead horse", just for example.
It's very fast paced and ruthless - which is I think some of this place's best qualities. Just need to be careful we don't "eat our young" as it were.
Very true. No doubt that the pace is the strength. But boy does it put pressure on new posters. Especially if they are used to a slow platform and have no idea that things are basically instant.
If you are used to communities where responses wait for emails to go out on a schedule, then people respond eventually... this place is SO different.
That's still a problem for me. Wrote my above post 3 times because I need to follow the discussion, translate, adapt the post... rinse and repeat. Final post was way shorter than initially planned. Like 1/10th of the length.
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@scottalanmiller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@MattSpeller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@thwr said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@MattSpeller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
Yet I don't feel that we've bashed, we've discussed their topics, and how to address the issues / initially configure the issues.
This has been one of the exceptionally few things that bothers me about this forum. For my two cents I think we should keep the cross linking to a bare minimum and for interesting / news topics only. It does not "feel right" most of the time when I read about posts from there.
This community can be a little... predatory... on the folks less experienced in IT. Well intentioned, absolutely. But a little vicious to the unwary.
Well, this very community IS IT. Also, ML's NodeBB is a very fast paced system, that's another problem / feature.
To take up some cludges for @DustinB3403, it was not him alone. We're all shaking our heads about all the quiz questions, @Dashrender called it "beating a dead horse", just for example.
It's very fast paced and ruthless - which is I think some of this place's best qualities. Just need to be careful we don't "eat our young" as it were.
Very true. No doubt that the pace is the strength. But boy does it put pressure on new posters. Especially if they are used to a slow platform and have no idea that things are basically instant.
If you are used to communities where responses wait for emails to go out on a schedule, then people respond eventually... this place is SO different.
I posted a simple question about SSL certs, and expecting 5-6 replies, but I got A LOT more than I bargain for. In the end I learn of other services, certbot, that answer my question in a different way.
EDIT: let's try not to sidetrack from original topic here. Fastpace forum discussion can be a whole thread by itself.
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@LAH3385 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
I don't feel like that. I am new to System Admin with little to no experience prior. That was a year ago. I spent 60-70hours a week the first couple months to get me on track and SAM, SW, and Mangolassi-an has been a great help so far. Yes, I made mistakes. Yes, I almost implement IPOD on my infrastructure. But I learned. I grow. All thanks to you guys here (and SW).
I think, after many years in multiple places, that ML generally is more blunt but less predatory than the alternative. But we have to carefully remember and consciously keep it that way. It's very easy to get frustrated and let it go down hill.
By keeping the blunt, though, we also maintain that it is not socially acceptable to not listen. On some other sites, not listening is seen as "cool" or something. Much like a culture of celebrating ignorance. If we start thinking of it being "cool and individualistic" to not listen to industry experience then it becomes acceptable to do reckless things.
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@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
Problem resolved then.
From now on, I'll happily (giddly) post to the OP that I am having a buttercup conversation about the situation others are in.
I hope the same goes for anything I post here or elsewhere.
LOL - won't you be banned and or moderated for posting links to here in SW?
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@thwr said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@scottalanmiller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@MattSpeller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@thwr said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@MattSpeller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
Yet I don't feel that we've bashed, we've discussed their topics, and how to address the issues / initially configure the issues.
This has been one of the exceptionally few things that bothers me about this forum. For my two cents I think we should keep the cross linking to a bare minimum and for interesting / news topics only. It does not "feel right" most of the time when I read about posts from there.
This community can be a little... predatory... on the folks less experienced in IT. Well intentioned, absolutely. But a little vicious to the unwary.
Well, this very community IS IT. Also, ML's NodeBB is a very fast paced system, that's another problem / feature.
To take up some cludges for @DustinB3403, it was not him alone. We're all shaking our heads about all the quiz questions, @Dashrender called it "beating a dead horse", just for example.
It's very fast paced and ruthless - which is I think some of this place's best qualities. Just need to be careful we don't "eat our young" as it were.
Very true. No doubt that the pace is the strength. But boy does it put pressure on new posters. Especially if they are used to a slow platform and have no idea that things are basically instant.
If you are used to communities where responses wait for emails to go out on a schedule, then people respond eventually... this place is SO different.
That's still a problem for me. Wrote my above post 3 times because I need to follow the discussion, translate, adapt the post... rinse and repeat. Final post was way shorter than initially planned. Like 1/10th of the length.
Good for improving English quickly! Feel free to post in German and slow us down.
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@scottalanmiller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
By keeping the blunt, though, we also maintain that it is not socially acceptable to not listen. On some other sites, not listening is seen as "cool" or something. Much like a culture of celebrating ignorance. If we start thinking of it being "cool and individualistic" to not listen to industry experience then it becomes acceptable to do reckless things.
So if going to a fully blunt state of mind when replying (like in the above example that @Jstear thinks is fine to have been deleted) doesn't that just ruin the community to have honest and blunt replies deleted?
Does it matter if it starts off blunt or eventually gets there?
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@Dashrender said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
LOL - won't you be banned and or moderated for posting links to here in SW?
Some of us will be, some should not be. Depends on how they interpret you. But you can IM the OP, you don't have to post a public link.
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@Dashrender said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
Problem resolved then.
From now on, I'll happily (giddly) post to the OP that I am having a buttercup conversation about the situation others are in.
I hope the same goes for anything I post here or elsewhere.
LOL - won't you be banned and or moderated for posting links to here in SW?
Honestly I have no idea, @Minion-Queen might have a talking to me on Friday. Ha. But this is a matter of being honest and open, what draws the bots, should draw new users as well.
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@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@scottalanmiller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
By keeping the blunt, though, we also maintain that it is not socially acceptable to not listen. On some other sites, not listening is seen as "cool" or something. Much like a culture of celebrating ignorance. If we start thinking of it being "cool and individualistic" to not listen to industry experience then it becomes acceptable to do reckless things.
So if going to a fully blunt state of mind when replying (like in the above example that @Jstear thinks is fine to have been deleted) doesn't that just ruin the community to have honest and blunt replies deleted?
Does it matter if it starts off blunt or eventually gets there?
I don't follow this question.
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@scottalanmiller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@MattSpeller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@thwr said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@MattSpeller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
Yet I don't feel that we've bashed, we've discussed their topics, and how to address the issues / initially configure the issues.
This has been one of the exceptionally few things that bothers me about this forum. For my two cents I think we should keep the cross linking to a bare minimum and for interesting / news topics only. It does not "feel right" most of the time when I read about posts from there.
This community can be a little... predatory... on the folks less experienced in IT. Well intentioned, absolutely. But a little vicious to the unwary.
Well, this very community IS IT. Also, ML's NodeBB is a very fast paced system, that's another problem / feature.
To take up some cludges for @DustinB3403, it was not him alone. We're all shaking our heads about all the quiz questions, @Dashrender called it "beating a dead horse", just for example.
It's very fast paced and ruthless - which is I think some of this place's best qualities. Just need to be careful we don't "eat our young" as it were.
Very true. No doubt that the pace is the strength. But boy does it put pressure on new posters. Especially if they are used to a slow platform and have no idea that things are basically instant.
If you are used to communities where responses wait for emails to go out on a schedule, then people respond eventually... this place is SO different.
I can barely tolerate those places anymore. The near instant reply here is darn near chat quality. sometimes it's worse because you can't keep up.
Just as bad, I had to step away to do my day job and now I'm 80 posts behind.
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@scottalanmiller If the first reply to a topic, just think back to the SW post where the OP was so happy about his brand new IPOD, and the first reply to it was "You're a f***ing moron!" in more or less words.
That was an immediate, blunt response, and not from I. It lasted for hours and 10s of pages of replies before the OP ashamed had the entire topic deleted. You then made a completely separate topic about "Are we here to be adults and learn" (something along those lines)
Why must a conversation be so political correct (buttercup approached) if it is clearly a jackass conversation.
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@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@Dashrender said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
Problem resolved then.
From now on, I'll happily (giddly) post to the OP that I am having a buttercup conversation about the situation others are in.
I hope the same goes for anything I post here or elsewhere.
LOL - won't you be banned and or moderated for posting links to here in SW?
Honestly I have no idea, @Minion-Queen might have a talking to me on Friday. Ha. But this is a matter of being honest and open, what draws the bots, should draw new users as well.
That's complex. A ton of people, I would hypothesize, are drawn here because we are very technical and we keep it that way. But tons more are drawn to other places because that's not what they want. Tons and tons of people just want a quick answer with sugar coating, want reverse justification for something that they have already done or want people to support whatever that they said so that they can show their boss that "people agree with them." Sadly, that's a popular reasoning, too.
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@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@Dashrender said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
Problem resolved then.
From now on, I'll happily (giddly) post to the OP that I am having a buttercup conversation about the situation others are in.
I hope the same goes for anything I post here or elsewhere.
LOL - won't you be banned and or moderated for posting links to here in SW?
Honestly I have no idea, @Minion-Queen might have a talking to me on Friday. Ha. But this is a matter of being honest and open, what draws the bots, should draw new users as well.
I was talking about Posting links to ML on SW, not SW links on ML.
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@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@scottalanmiller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
By keeping the blunt, though, we also maintain that it is not socially acceptable to not listen. On some other sites, not listening is seen as "cool" or something. Much like a culture of celebrating ignorance. If we start thinking of it being "cool and individualistic" to not listen to industry experience then it becomes acceptable to do reckless things.
So if going to a fully blunt state of mind when replying (like in the above example that @Jstear thinks is fine to have been deleted) doesn't that just ruin the community to have honest and blunt replies deleted?
Does it matter if it starts off blunt or eventually gets there?
I don't think being blunt is fundamentally wrong. When I am in a conversation that might be difficult I make everything into an I statement. It might sound somewhat self centered at first, but when I am talking about how I understand things, and how I would do things, there is less room for the potential of me coming across as attacking.
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@Dashrender said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@scottalanmiller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@MattSpeller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@thwr said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@MattSpeller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
Yet I don't feel that we've bashed, we've discussed their topics, and how to address the issues / initially configure the issues.
This has been one of the exceptionally few things that bothers me about this forum. For my two cents I think we should keep the cross linking to a bare minimum and for interesting / news topics only. It does not "feel right" most of the time when I read about posts from there.
This community can be a little... predatory... on the folks less experienced in IT. Well intentioned, absolutely. But a little vicious to the unwary.
Well, this very community IS IT. Also, ML's NodeBB is a very fast paced system, that's another problem / feature.
To take up some cludges for @DustinB3403, it was not him alone. We're all shaking our heads about all the quiz questions, @Dashrender called it "beating a dead horse", just for example.
It's very fast paced and ruthless - which is I think some of this place's best qualities. Just need to be careful we don't "eat our young" as it were.
Very true. No doubt that the pace is the strength. But boy does it put pressure on new posters. Especially if they are used to a slow platform and have no idea that things are basically instant.
If you are used to communities where responses wait for emails to go out on a schedule, then people respond eventually... this place is SO different.
I can barely tolerate those places anymore. The near instant reply here is darn near chat quality. sometimes it's worse because you can't keep up.
Just as bad, I had to step away to do my day job and now I'm 80 posts behind.
Only 80? Must not have been for long.
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@Dashrender said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@Dashrender said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
Problem resolved then.
From now on, I'll happily (giddly) post to the OP that I am having a buttercup conversation about the situation others are in.
I hope the same goes for anything I post here or elsewhere.
LOL - won't you be banned and or moderated for posting links to here in SW?
Honestly I have no idea, @Minion-Queen might have a talking to me on Friday. Ha. But this is a matter of being honest and open, what draws the bots, should draw new users as well.
I was talking about Posting links to ML on SW, not SW links on ML.
I knew what you meant.
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@scottalanmiller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@Dashrender said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@scottalanmiller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@MattSpeller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@thwr said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@MattSpeller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
Yet I don't feel that we've bashed, we've discussed their topics, and how to address the issues / initially configure the issues.
This has been one of the exceptionally few things that bothers me about this forum. For my two cents I think we should keep the cross linking to a bare minimum and for interesting / news topics only. It does not "feel right" most of the time when I read about posts from there.
This community can be a little... predatory... on the folks less experienced in IT. Well intentioned, absolutely. But a little vicious to the unwary.
Well, this very community IS IT. Also, ML's NodeBB is a very fast paced system, that's another problem / feature.
To take up some cludges for @DustinB3403, it was not him alone. We're all shaking our heads about all the quiz questions, @Dashrender called it "beating a dead horse", just for example.
It's very fast paced and ruthless - which is I think some of this place's best qualities. Just need to be careful we don't "eat our young" as it were.
Very true. No doubt that the pace is the strength. But boy does it put pressure on new posters. Especially if they are used to a slow platform and have no idea that things are basically instant.
If you are used to communities where responses wait for emails to go out on a schedule, then people respond eventually... this place is SO different.
I can barely tolerate those places anymore. The near instant reply here is darn near chat quality. sometimes it's worse because you can't keep up.
Just as bad, I had to step away to do my day job and now I'm 80 posts behind.
Only 80? Must not have been for long.
about 20 mins.
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@Kelly said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@scottalanmiller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
By keeping the blunt, though, we also maintain that it is not socially acceptable to not listen. On some other sites, not listening is seen as "cool" or something. Much like a culture of celebrating ignorance. If we start thinking of it being "cool and individualistic" to not listen to industry experience then it becomes acceptable to do reckless things.
So if going to a fully blunt state of mind when replying (like in the above example that @Jstear thinks is fine to have been deleted) doesn't that just ruin the community to have honest and blunt replies deleted?
Does it matter if it starts off blunt or eventually gets there?
I don't think being blunt is fundamentally wrong. When I am in a conversation that might be difficult I make everything into an I statement. It might sound somewhat self centered at first, but when I am talking about how I understand things, and how I would do things, there is less room for the potential of me coming across as attacking.
It's also super important to remember that blunt is very different than assuming.
Blunt is saying "you've done something risky and I don't see where you added any value." Assuming is "it sounds like you've done something risky." Blunt without assumption works much better.
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@Dashrender said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@scottalanmiller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@Dashrender said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@scottalanmiller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@MattSpeller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@thwr said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@MattSpeller said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
Yet I don't feel that we've bashed, we've discussed their topics, and how to address the issues / initially configure the issues.
This has been one of the exceptionally few things that bothers me about this forum. For my two cents I think we should keep the cross linking to a bare minimum and for interesting / news topics only. It does not "feel right" most of the time when I read about posts from there.
This community can be a little... predatory... on the folks less experienced in IT. Well intentioned, absolutely. But a little vicious to the unwary.
Well, this very community IS IT. Also, ML's NodeBB is a very fast paced system, that's another problem / feature.
To take up some cludges for @DustinB3403, it was not him alone. We're all shaking our heads about all the quiz questions, @Dashrender called it "beating a dead horse", just for example.
It's very fast paced and ruthless - which is I think some of this place's best qualities. Just need to be careful we don't "eat our young" as it were.
Very true. No doubt that the pace is the strength. But boy does it put pressure on new posters. Especially if they are used to a slow platform and have no idea that things are basically instant.
If you are used to communities where responses wait for emails to go out on a schedule, then people respond eventually... this place is SO different.
I can barely tolerate those places anymore. The near instant reply here is darn near chat quality. sometimes it's worse because you can't keep up.
Just as bad, I had to step away to do my day job and now I'm 80 posts behind.
Only 80? Must not have been for long.
about 20 mins.
Kind of a slow day.
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@DustinB3403 said in Is it bashing to ask what other were thinking:
Why must a conversation be so political correct (buttercup approached) if it is clearly a jackass conversation.
Two reasons. One, we should always keep it professional. And two, keeping it professional adds more weight to the point.
