Common Core haters
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@dafyre said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@dafyre said:
@scottalanmiller said:
The issue with the Common Core is not the Common Core itself. That's actually just a standard of what kids should know at different levels. It's actually not half bad. A bit slack, but anything in public education is.
People associate sometimes whacky and nonsensical teaching methods and standardized testing with Common Core. Those are actually the things that people hate or are having issues with.
That and things like number lines... I've seen a few examples and those simply don't make sense to me at all... and I took Math all the way up to Calculus and we never touched on that -- not in the long-winded roundabout way that I've seen examples work.
Standardized testing was around long before the "Common Core" name became mainstream. The problem is that teachers now have to teach things that directly relate to answer on some standardized test somewhere, rather than teaching the kids how to think critically.
They never taught to think critically. But at leas they used to teach how to figure things out. The amount of "I can't believe what these kids don't know" has jump to asinine levels these days.
I was one of the lucky ones. Lessons I learned in kindergarten have stuck with me even now. Look before you leap; look both ways before crossing the street; pay attention... I had plenty of help too (my mom is a teacher) who helped reinforce these things in me as well. I still pay attention to those around me. I help those that I can, and find help for those that I can't.
My grandmother taught school (dad's mom), my mom taught school, my wife and I each did some school teaching too. My wife's sister teaches.
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There is something to be said for small shools (one room school house). But the biggest thing is parents who also teach at home. Parents who don't at least reinforce and take the time their selves get what we got these days.
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@coliver said:
@travisdh1 said:
@coliver said:
Even in high school I was of the mind that for a fraction of the cost of just one sport a school could provide free lunches to the entire student body.
Although I am also a fan of getting away from school boards and push the district governance up the ladder to the state level.
I'm also in favor of getting rid of school boards. I'd want it pushed down to either parents or very small localized schools tho.
Why? Aren't parents and tax payers the ones who already vote in the school board? Going to a mass vote would amount to the same thing.
See I don't agree with this - i think if you had to have a large vote each time.. people would be involved.. there would be less crappy things happening..
but maybe it would slow things down to much. -
@dafyre said:
Standardized testing was around long before the "Common Core" name became mainstream. The problem is that teachers now have to teach things that directly relate to answer on some standardized test somewhere, rather than teaching the kids how to think critically.
How is this bad, unless the pool of questions is so small as to reduce the actual amount of knowledge you have to have in order to pass the test?
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@Dashrender said:
@coliver said:
@travisdh1 said:
@coliver said:
Even in high school I was of the mind that for a fraction of the cost of just one sport a school could provide free lunches to the entire student body.
Although I am also a fan of getting away from school boards and push the district governance up the ladder to the state level.
I'm also in favor of getting rid of school boards. I'd want it pushed down to either parents or very small localized schools tho.
Why? Aren't parents and tax payers the ones who already vote in the school board? Going to a mass vote would amount to the same thing.
See I don't agree with this - i think if you had to have a large vote each time.. people would be involved.. there would be less crappy things happening..
but maybe it would slow things down to much.People don't pay attention though. I doubt they would be more involved and just follow the crowd. Suddenly you would have the local newspaper owner (do they exist?) or Joe Businessowner who has some moderate pull in the community commanding a large number of people who will vote how they are told to.
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@Minion-Queen said:
There is something to be said for small shools (one room school house). But the biggest thing is parents who also teach at home. Parents who don't at least reinforce and take the time their selves get what we got these days.
I am a firm believer in parents being a part of their kid's life, whenever possible. You can't let the school raise your kids, lest they become products of the system.
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@dafyre said:
@Minion-Queen said:
There is something to be said for small shools (one room school house). But the biggest thing is parents who also teach at home. Parents who don't at least reinforce and take the time their selves get what we got these days.
I am a firm believer in parents being a part of their kid's life, whenever possible. You can't let the school raise your kids, lest they become products of the system.
Education starts at home.
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@coliver said:
@Dashrender said:
@coliver said:
@travisdh1 said:
@coliver said:
Even in high school I was of the mind that for a fraction of the cost of just one sport a school could provide free lunches to the entire student body.
Although I am also a fan of getting away from school boards and push the district governance up the ladder to the state level.
I'm also in favor of getting rid of school boards. I'd want it pushed down to either parents or very small localized schools tho.
Why? Aren't parents and tax payers the ones who already vote in the school board? Going to a mass vote would amount to the same thing.
See I don't agree with this - i think if you had to have a large vote each time.. people would be involved.. there would be less crappy things happening..
but maybe it would slow things down to much.People don't pay attention though. I doubt they would be more involved and just follow the crowd. Suddenly you would have the local newspaper owner (do they exist?) or Joe Businessowner who has some moderate pull in the community commanding a large number of people who will vote how they are told to.
and that's different from now how?
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@Dashrender said:
@coliver said:
@Dashrender said:
@coliver said:
@travisdh1 said:
@coliver said:
Even in high school I was of the mind that for a fraction of the cost of just one sport a school could provide free lunches to the entire student body.
Although I am also a fan of getting away from school boards and push the district governance up the ladder to the state level.
I'm also in favor of getting rid of school boards. I'd want it pushed down to either parents or very small localized schools tho.
Why? Aren't parents and tax payers the ones who already vote in the school board? Going to a mass vote would amount to the same thing.
See I don't agree with this - i think if you had to have a large vote each time.. people would be involved.. there would be less crappy things happening..
but maybe it would slow things down to much.People don't pay attention though. I doubt they would be more involved and just follow the crowd. Suddenly you would have the local newspaper owner (do they exist?) or Joe Businessowner who has some moderate pull in the community commanding a large number of people who will vote how they are told to.
and that's different from now how?
That's my argument exactly. Hence me saying "Going to a mass vote would amount to the same thing." My argument is that the districts should lose power and it should be pushed up to the state level.
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@Dashrender said:
@dafyre said:
Standardized testing was around long before the "Common Core" name became mainstream. The problem is that teachers now have to teach things that directly relate to answer on some standardized test somewhere, rather than teaching the kids how to think critically.
How is this bad, unless the pool of questions is so small as to reduce the actual amount of knowledge you have to have in order to pass the test?
I mean that in the way that teachers have to teach the kids that 2 + 3 =5... Okay, that's great! 2+3=5, so now they know the answer to the test question.
But what if the test has 4+5 = ?
Is the kid going to know HOW to get to 9? This is an extreme example.
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@coliver said:
@Dashrender said:
@coliver said:
@Dashrender said:
@coliver said:
@travisdh1 said:
@coliver said:
Even in high school I was of the mind that for a fraction of the cost of just one sport a school could provide free lunches to the entire student body.
Although I am also a fan of getting away from school boards and push the district governance up the ladder to the state level.
I'm also in favor of getting rid of school boards. I'd want it pushed down to either parents or very small localized schools tho.
Why? Aren't parents and tax payers the ones who already vote in the school board? Going to a mass vote would amount to the same thing.
See I don't agree with this - i think if you had to have a large vote each time.. people would be involved.. there would be less crappy things happening..
but maybe it would slow things down to much.People don't pay attention though. I doubt they would be more involved and just follow the crowd. Suddenly you would have the local newspaper owner (do they exist?) or Joe Businessowner who has some moderate pull in the community commanding a large number of people who will vote how they are told to.
and that's different from now how?
That's my argument exactly. Hence me saying "Going to a mass vote would amount to the same thing."
I disagree only because you open the floor to the possibility of some people making their own choices.. something that's solely left up to those voting.. but in the end.. perhaps it doesn't matter and won't change.
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@Dashrender said:
@coliver said:
@Dashrender said:
@coliver said:
@Dashrender said:
@coliver said:
@travisdh1 said:
@coliver said:
Even in high school I was of the mind that for a fraction of the cost of just one sport a school could provide free lunches to the entire student body.
Although I am also a fan of getting away from school boards and push the district governance up the ladder to the state level.
I'm also in favor of getting rid of school boards. I'd want it pushed down to either parents or very small localized schools tho.
Why? Aren't parents and tax payers the ones who already vote in the school board? Going to a mass vote would amount to the same thing.
See I don't agree with this - i think if you had to have a large vote each time.. people would be involved.. there would be less crappy things happening..
but maybe it would slow things down to much.People don't pay attention though. I doubt they would be more involved and just follow the crowd. Suddenly you would have the local newspaper owner (do they exist?) or Joe Businessowner who has some moderate pull in the community commanding a large number of people who will vote how they are told to.
and that's different from now how?
That's my argument exactly. Hence me saying "Going to a mass vote would amount to the same thing."
I disagree only because you open the floor to the possibility of some people making their own choices.. something that's solely left up to those voting.. but in the end.. perhaps it doesn't matter and won't change.
Some people will. That's fine but I doubt they will outnumber the people who just blindly follow the leader. No different then local town/county elections.
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@Dashrender said:
@coliver said:
@Dashrender said:
@coliver said:
@travisdh1 said:
@coliver said:
Even in high school I was of the mind that for a fraction of the cost of just one sport a school could provide free lunches to the entire student body.
Although I am also a fan of getting away from school boards and push the district governance up the ladder to the state level.
I'm also in favor of getting rid of school boards. I'd want it pushed down to either parents or very small localized schools tho.
Why? Aren't parents and tax payers the ones who already vote in the school board? Going to a mass vote would amount to the same thing.
See I don't agree with this - i think if you had to have a large vote each time.. people would be involved.. there would be less crappy things happening..
but maybe it would slow things down to much.People don't pay attention though. I doubt they would be more involved and just follow the crowd. Suddenly you would have the local newspaper owner (do they exist?) or Joe Businessowner who has some moderate pull in the community commanding a large number of people who will vote how they are told to.
and that's different from now how?
national scale is far more rational than the state scale. Just look at states like NC, MS and TX. They do very rash things that rarely happen at the national scale. There is a stabilizing force having lots of different regions and groups represented. A local community easily and commonly skews way, way out of control.
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Note: My opinion is based entirely on my own experience and what I have seen in the US.
- In my county we had 10 year old books but brand new sports equipment. This should never happen. Fully in support of private funding simply as a means of exercise for kids. Education should always be the most important thing.
- In the US a teachers wage is near the average salary for our country. It is not a respected position anymore and we don't have the most intelligent people in our country teaching.
- I agree that education should start at home but what about the people that have to work multiple jobs to feed their kids even having masters degrees? My fiance has a masters degree in human development and taught as a professor at Penn State at the age of 24. She made slightly above 30k to do that job. In order to be in education (and I mean a serious professional) it takes so much dedication and work. Most people either become teachers so they only have to work for 3 years to get tenure and a pension or to make a difference (a small percentage from what I've seen in my life). We also have people in administration double dipping. They retire from one school and get a similar job working at another school collecting a salary and their pension from their last job. This is preventing the younger generation from taking that job and completely halts our professional progress.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@travisdh1 said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@travisdh1 said:
@JaredBusch Just out of curiosity, have you every actually looked at the budgets for your local schools? It was eye opening for me. Something just isn't right if you can't give a good education for 1/3 of what our local schools are funded at.
It's not the budget, it is what is paid to the teaching staff that is the issue.
We pay teachers? Could've fooled me from the budgets I looked at, grr!
Remember, no one is truly mandating the public school to provide education. They are a combination of babysitting and social control.
If you complain about your pay, the option is to find some other work.. You don't want to? well that just shows your stupidity.
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@Jason said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@travisdh1 said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@travisdh1 said:
@JaredBusch Just out of curiosity, have you every actually looked at the budgets for your local schools? It was eye opening for me. Something just isn't right if you can't give a good education for 1/3 of what our local schools are funded at.
It's not the budget, it is what is paid to the teaching staff that is the issue.
We pay teachers? Could've fooled me from the budgets I looked at, grr!
Remember, no one is truly mandating the public school to provide education. They are a combination of babysitting and social control.
If you complain about your pay, the option is to find some other work.. You don't want to? well that just shows your stupidity.
You think people that dedicate 5-6 years of their time getting a masters degree, getting paid scraps should just find other work? That is a ton of dedication to try to further the education in our country. A goal I hope everyone in our field would support considering we are in a 100% intellectual field.
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@Jason said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@travisdh1 said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@travisdh1 said:
@JaredBusch Just out of curiosity, have you every actually looked at the budgets for your local schools? It was eye opening for me. Something just isn't right if you can't give a good education for 1/3 of what our local schools are funded at.
It's not the budget, it is what is paid to the teaching staff that is the issue.
We pay teachers? Could've fooled me from the budgets I looked at, grr!
Remember, no one is truly mandating the public school to provide education. They are a combination of babysitting and social control.
If you complain about your pay, the option is to find some other work.. You don't want to? well that just shows your stupidity.
The third option is to fight for a better wage. Which is what a lot of teachers are doing.
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@Jason said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@travisdh1 said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@travisdh1 said:
@JaredBusch Just out of curiosity, have you every actually looked at the budgets for your local schools? It was eye opening for me. Something just isn't right if you can't give a good education for 1/3 of what our local schools are funded at.
It's not the budget, it is what is paid to the teaching staff that is the issue.
We pay teachers? Could've fooled me from the budgets I looked at, grr!
Remember, no one is truly mandating the public school to provide education. They are a combination of babysitting and social control.
If you complain about your pay, the option is to find some other work.. You don't want to? well that just shows your stupidity.
It's not the teachers complaining (in this case) it is the parents (us) who would like schools to try to hire educators not babysitters.
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@wirestyle22 said:
@Jason said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@travisdh1 said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@travisdh1 said:
@JaredBusch Just out of curiosity, have you every actually looked at the budgets for your local schools? It was eye opening for me. Something just isn't right if you can't give a good education for 1/3 of what our local schools are funded at.
It's not the budget, it is what is paid to the teaching staff that is the issue.
We pay teachers? Could've fooled me from the budgets I looked at, grr!
Remember, no one is truly mandating the public school to provide education. They are a combination of babysitting and social control.
If you complain about your pay, the option is to find some other work.. You don't want to? well that just shows your stupidity.
You think people that dedicate 5-6 years of their time getting a masters degree, getting paid scraps should just find other work? That is a ton of dedication to try to further the education in our country. A goal I hope everyone in our field would support considering we are in a 100% intellectual field.
Their are lots of fields where you get masters degrees and don't get paid the most.. anyway most teachers I know just like to complain the average teacher around here is making above avg salary. Avg teacher is $60k plus. Avg person makes $30k with a degree here.
Also teachers are usually underqualified to teach anyway.
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@wirestyle22 said:
You think people that dedicate 5-6 years of their time getting a masters degree, getting paid scraps should just find other work?
No, but they shouldn't complain either as the wages and the work needed were known before they went down that path. If they want to teach at the available wages they should be happy with the situation.
You don't hear lawyers complaining about how they "shouldn't have to learn all that legal stuff", right? Because they knew that going into that field meant learning all that stuff.
Teachers are the same way, if they feel that they should complain, they should find other work. That they got a master's degree and put in all that time was their decision and there is nothing wrong with that. But there is something wrong with doing it and being upset with what the field looks like on the other side.
