Parents, Admin rights and School policy
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@nadnerB said:
Also, high schools kids are known to take delight in messing up other kids stuff or messing up the schools stuff (Rebels with out a clue). Perhaps not having admin access is a good thing
Same could be said about adults. But we don't take away their freedoms to prote.... oh wait, we do.
But how are high school kids to actually learn if they never get real access to computers? Sure those that can afford extra computers do. But this sounds like another school, much like in Texas, where everything is designed to limit access to education and experience to poorer students. If it requires money to go to school and lots of money to have the good education, it is a class system. Schools should always do whatever is possible to level the playing field, not encourage the classism. In NY when I was in school, everything was free. The rich kids, the poor kids, we all had the same classes, after school activities, buses, music options, sports, etc. In Texas, even basic class options are limited based on your disposable income. If you want to be in sports or music you are looking at fees that are literally impossible for people anywhere near minimum wage to have their kids attend.
And then the universities, which use the high schools as a way to support the class system, use extra curricular activities as a key deciding factor on which kids to take - not their performance in the classes that they take universally. That sounds great, but is designed specifically to sound good while limiting access to the poor both to high school and then college options.
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@nadnerB said:
^ TL;DR
- Parent (Journo) bought laptop for school as suggested by school
- School's Windows image applied (from place of purchase)
- Parent upset because they don't have admin account access
- School isn't back yet, so no comments from the school yet
- Yes, it's a Lenovo.
I can see both sides of why this is a good/bad idea.
Why don't they just, you know, reimage it?
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Does MS volume licensing allow you to image computers not actually owned by the organization?
To me it sounds like the School's IT wants to have their cake and eat it too... They don't want to buy hardware for students with their budget, but they want to lock down the students' hardware as if they had.
...And that hardware is running Windows for some reason? I'm wondering why the school didn't just tell parents to buy Chromebooks if they wanted to go this route. Less costly for parents while maintaining the control the IT dept wants.
As someone who dabbled in messing with school computers back in the day, I understand wanting to lock down anything touching the school network. This just seems like a poor implementation of that goal that is likely to cause more friction between the administration and parents down the road.
With all that said, the author of the story should have waited for some response from the school before publishing. This feels like someone trying to flash their journalist badge to get what they want, which significantly weakens the article's impact.
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This just seems like BYOD gone wrong. If this school wants to do BYOD they need to have an infrastructure to support it.
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@nadnerB said:
The best idea would have been to seek comments from the school (actually research the school's perspective) before posting.
Sure, be unhappy about it but at the end of the day, the kid is supposed to be using it for education. How can it be used for that purpose if it has to be regularly fixed because well-meaning parent, of said kid, thought it'd be great to install some random bit of software.
Perhaps not having admin access is a good thing
What are you teaching your kid? That they can ignore/break rules that they don't understand? Get a copy of the policy and work WITH it. There may be actual reason and logic to be found.
Preach it brother
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@WingCreative said:
To me it sounds like the School's IT wants to have their cake and eat it too... They don't want to buy hardware for students with their budget, but they want to lock down the students' hardware as if they had.
I totally agree. This is very fishy. Students have to pay full price for a computer and OS that they do not choose and then don't even get access to the thing that they bought? Basically the IT department has managed to force the residents of their district to buy THEM computers.
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@WingCreative said:
With all that said, the author of the story should have waited for some response from the school before publishing.
Although I would counter that that if the school who "owns" the computer declines to comment because they don't support their users all of the time. I think that going down this path of getting control of the computers and then not responding or providing support when needed removes any responsibility to "wait for them" to respond. They have the option of responding and did not, their window for rebuttal is over.
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OK I'll take the other side of this debate.
I paid for this equipment, it's not a rental, or borrowed. I paid for it. Therefore I should have 100% control over the device.
If the school wants to provide services that I can use from my self provided device, then they should provide those services in such a way that they, the school, can lock down. Think VDI or RDS here.
Then while on the school network, the school can lock down what the users are able to access via the internet directly or through the VDI/RDS solution.
Now all that said - If the computer becomes unusable for whatever reason, this would be no different than a student who looses their school provided book. The responsibility to fix the computer (or buy a replacement book) is completely on the student and parent, not the school.
Now the school could offer services that allow for lock down of the device, but again, it should be purely voluntary.
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@Dashrender said:
OK I'll take the other side of this debate.
I paid for this equipment, it's not a rental, or borrowed. I paid for it. Therefore I should have 100% control over the device.
If the school wants to provide services that I can use from my self provided device, then they should provide those services in such a way that they, the school, can lock down. Think VDI or RDS here.
Then while on the school network, the school can lock down what the users are able to access via the internet directly or through the VDI/RDS solution.
Now all that said - If the computer becomes unusable for whatever reason, this would be no different than a student who looses their school provided book. The responsibility to fix the computer (or buy a replacement book) is completely on the student and parent, not the school.
Now the school could offer services that allow for lock down of the device, but again, it should be purely voluntary.
I agree with VDI. Why not have one for each student who purchases a laptop. Then they can buy a Chromebook and just use the VDI. It would probably perform better than some of the Windows bombs the parents bought anyway.
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This is horrible. If they paid for it they should have admin rights.. Nor should the schools image be applied to it.
MDM for some security and enforcement of AV Fine. They should use the computers to RDP into something owned by the school.
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Also I wonder how the school is licensing their image on the customer bought computer which likely are home edition.. even if not. Imaging rights are contained to the organization and since they do not own it, legally they have no imaging rights to that computer.
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I agree, sounds very likely that this is a school running more than one scam at a time.
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I think calling a scam is a bit harsh. The school was closed for school holidays at the time of the article, so comment could not be sought.
I don't agree with locking the admin account away from the devices owner. I do understand why it could have been done but that doesn't make it right.
Perhaps someone in the chain of fail missed a memo? Who knows. It's all speculation and conjecture at this point.
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@nadnerB said:
I think calling a scam is a bit harsh. The school was closed for school holidays at the time of the article, so comment could not be sought.
Making people buy machines with a license that isn't valid for them for Windows is the scam I'm referring to, at least one of them. You can't do that with student owned machines. And what happens when they are done with school and don't have a legal license on a machine that they paid for?
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@nadnerB said:
The school was closed for school holidays at the time of the article, so comment could not be sought.
I feel like the fact that they would shut down support for something like this under the guise of a holiday alone is a bit of a scam. Buy something and then find out there is no support, no response - and it becomes an international news item?
Doesn't add up. Too many "this isn't right" things going on. Declining to comment was the school's decision. Holidays make a convenient excuse. Do they really expect people to buy computers, with likely stolen licenses on them, that you can't even get information about using because the school finds it inconvenient?
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@nadnerB said:
Perhaps someone in the chain of fail missed a memo? Who knows. It's all speculation and conjecture at this point.
The important fact is... the school was contacted, given a chance to have a rebuttal and declines. That they made an excuse for declining honestly makes it worse.
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The only thing that I am wondering about is... what stops them from installing Linux on it and telling the school to shove it?
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@scottalanmiller said:
@nadnerB said:
I think calling a scam is a bit harsh. The school was closed for school holidays at the time of the article, so comment could not be sought.
Making people buy machines with a license that isn't valid for them for Windows is the scam I'm referring to, at least one of them. You can't do that with student owned machines. And what happens when they are done with school and don't have a legal license on a machine that they paid for?
By the authors own admission, they bought a recommended laptop. Not guns to heads.
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@nadnerB said:
By the authors own admission, they bought a recommended laptop. Not guns to heads.
That only applies if the license is fully legal, there is no undisclosed limitation and none of this was a surprise. That they bought the recommended one alone doesn't excuse anything, really. Maybe makes them foolish, but it is a student, afterall.
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@scottalanmiller said:
The only thing that I am wondering about is... what stops them from installing Linux on it and telling the school to shove it?
Program compatibility, vendor lock in...
The various Departments of Education (each state and Federal) all use the MS office suite.If they operate anything like us, they will have something like campus agreements to cover their licenses.
That being said, I would imagine that this would be a private school. No idea how they would go about their MS licensing.
The long and short of it is that Linux doesn't have a very bit foothold over here.
