Hypervisor, hypervisor - who's got the best hypervisor?
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@scottalanmiller said:
@coliver said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Important because deploying from source just means "copying". It's not scary or anything. It is how lots of enterprise software, including the one that we are talking on, are installed today. It's nothing like getting a tarball and having to install a compiler and set flags and whatnot like people would think. It's a standard and very business type of installation methodology.
Ah... see that's what I would call building an application. I can understand the technical difference though.
You call copying "building"? Like if you download an app ready to go from the internet, you call it "building"?
@scottalanmiller said:
@coliver said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Important because deploying from source just means "copying". It's not scary or anything. It is how lots of enterprise software, including the one that we are talking on, are installed today. It's nothing like getting a tarball and having to install a compiler and set flags and whatnot like people would think. It's a standard and very business type of installation methodology.
Ah... see that's what I would call building an application. I can understand the technical difference though.
You call copying "building"? Like if you download an app ready to go from the internet, you call it "building"?
You do have to type npm build
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@scottalanmiller said:
Don't forget there are agent-based vendors too. StorageCraft, for example, works fine on XS and gives you pretty much everything that you are looking for.
Agent Based backups defeat the purpose of a virtualized infrastructure.
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I'm just confused now.
In windows, I download an EXE, MSI, etc and double click on it and it asks me some questions and then installs itself.
Deploying from Source definitely (to me) sounds like you will have C or whatever, code that needs to be compiled, then deployed to the proper directories to be installed.
So that's not what is happening when you Deploy from Source? Instead you get pre compiled files that you simply copy to the needed locations (through a script I assume) and then run the installer (basically something that helps you run configure the app?
So what is it called when you really do have to download the actual C code and compile before deploying?
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@JaredBusch said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Don't forget there are agent-based vendors too. StorageCraft, for example, works fine on XS and gives you pretty much everything that you are looking for.
Agent Based backups defeat the purpose of a virtualized infrastructure.
I see both sides of that coin.
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@JaredBusch This is the best sentence about agent solutions I ever heard.
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@coliver said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@coliver said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Important because deploying from source just means "copying". It's not scary or anything. It is how lots of enterprise software, including the one that we are talking on, are installed today. It's nothing like getting a tarball and having to install a compiler and set flags and whatnot like people would think. It's a standard and very business type of installation methodology.
Ah... see that's what I would call building an application. I can understand the technical difference though.
You call copying "building"? Like if you download an app ready to go from the internet, you call it "building"?
I am living in the Windows world right now... apps ready to go from the internet are installed. Like I said I can see your point and will use the correct terminology going forward.
No, you have to download them first.
Consider WordPress. The full install is literally just copying it into place. There isn't even the Windows notion of needing to double click!
So if copying is building. What would the Windows world be? What is double the effort of building?
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@johnhooks said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@coliver said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Important because deploying from source just means "copying". It's not scary or anything. It is how lots of enterprise software, including the one that we are talking on, are installed today. It's nothing like getting a tarball and having to install a compiler and set flags and whatnot like people would think. It's a standard and very business type of installation methodology.
Ah... see that's what I would call building an application. I can understand the technical difference though.
You call copying "building"? Like if you download an app ready to go from the internet, you call it "building"?
@scottalanmiller said:
@coliver said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Important because deploying from source just means "copying". It's not scary or anything. It is how lots of enterprise software, including the one that we are talking on, are installed today. It's nothing like getting a tarball and having to install a compiler and set flags and whatnot like people would think. It's a standard and very business type of installation methodology.
Ah... see that's what I would call building an application. I can understand the technical difference though.
You call copying "building"? Like if you download an app ready to go from the internet, you call it "building"?
You do have to type npm build
Not for NodeBB. Just copy and done.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@coliver said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@coliver said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Important because deploying from source just means "copying". It's not scary or anything. It is how lots of enterprise software, including the one that we are talking on, are installed today. It's nothing like getting a tarball and having to install a compiler and set flags and whatnot like people would think. It's a standard and very business type of installation methodology.
Ah... see that's what I would call building an application. I can understand the technical difference though.
You call copying "building"? Like if you download an app ready to go from the internet, you call it "building"?
I am living in the Windows world right now... apps ready to go from the internet are installed. Like I said I can see your point and will use the correct terminology going forward.
No, you have to download them first.
Consider WordPress. The full install is literally just copying it into place. There isn't even the Windows notion of needing to double click!
So if copying is building. What would the Windows world be? What is double the effort of building?
It is pretty much double the effort of everything else...
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@JaredBusch said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Don't forget there are agent-based vendors too. StorageCraft, for example, works fine on XS and gives you pretty much everything that you are looking for.
Agent Based backups defeat the purpose of a virtualized infrastructure.
That seems a bit extreme. Agentless has a lot of advantages but isn't the point or the reason for virtualization and is often a pretty trivial benefit. As they get better, they tend to win over agent-based. But without agentless backups, we'd use virtualization just the same. It's a trivial side show really.
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@Dashrender said:
So what is it called when you really do have to download the actual C code and compile before deploying?
THAT is called "compiling" or "building from source." That's what people normally mean when they say building and pretty much no one does that in a business setting for anything. There are exceptions, but I can't think of one.
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@Dashrender said:
Deploying from Source definitely (to me) sounds like you will have C or whatever, code that needs to be compiled, then deployed to the proper directories to be installed.
No, it just means copy. Like.... really, just copy it where you want it to be (unless it is compressed, obviously, then you need to uncompress it first.)
WordPress is a perfect example. If you have a compressed source, you just download wherever you want it and uncompress it. Done.
But if you have WordPress uncompressed, you just copy it where you want it. Done.
Seriously. Just copying.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@johnhooks said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@coliver said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Important because deploying from source just means "copying". It's not scary or anything. It is how lots of enterprise software, including the one that we are talking on, are installed today. It's nothing like getting a tarball and having to install a compiler and set flags and whatnot like people would think. It's a standard and very business type of installation methodology.
Ah... see that's what I would call building an application. I can understand the technical difference though.
You call copying "building"? Like if you download an app ready to go from the internet, you call it "building"?
@scottalanmiller said:
@coliver said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Important because deploying from source just means "copying". It's not scary or anything. It is how lots of enterprise software, including the one that we are talking on, are installed today. It's nothing like getting a tarball and having to install a compiler and set flags and whatnot like people would think. It's a standard and very business type of installation methodology.
Ah... see that's what I would call building an application. I can understand the technical difference though.
You call copying "building"? Like if you download an app ready to go from the internet, you call it "building"?
You do have to type npm build
Not for NodeBB. Just copy and done.
oh I mean for XO.
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@Dashrender said:
So that's not what is happening when you Deploy from Source? Instead you get pre compiled files that you simply copy to the needed locations (through a script I assume) and then run the installer (basically something that helps you run configure the app?
No, if you run an installer then you are .... well, running an installer. You are installing using a customer installer like Windows does (by default.) Running a setup is common because you probably want to customize most apps before them run (connecting to a database, putting in a password, whatever) but that's a bit different than installing - the app is already installed at that point.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
Deploying from Source definitely (to me) sounds like you will have C or whatever, code that needs to be compiled, then deployed to the proper directories to be installed.
No, it just means copy. Like.... really, just copy it where you want it to be (unless it is compressed, obviously, then you need to uncompress it first.)
WordPress is a perfect example. If you have a compressed source, you just download wherever you want it and uncompress it. Done.
But if you have WordPress uncompressed, you just copy it where you want it. Done.
Seriously. Just copying.
Yup same with Drupal. download the tar and extract to your web folder. I mean you have to add the database settings, and then chmod the settings file but, same thing.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
So that's not what is happening when you Deploy from Source? Instead you get pre compiled files that you simply copy to the needed locations (through a script I assume) and then run the installer (basically something that helps you run configure the app?
No, if you run an installer then you are .... well, running an installer. You are installing using a customer installer like Windows does (by default.) Running a setup is common because you probably want to customize most apps before them run (connecting to a database, putting in a password, whatever) but that's a bit different than installing - the app is already installed at that point.
Basically, an installer is just extracting from a package and copying files into place for you. In the Windows world, it is almost universally also setting a bunch of registry information for uninstall, and stuff.
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@JaredBusch said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
So that's not what is happening when you Deploy from Source? Instead you get pre compiled files that you simply copy to the needed locations (through a script I assume) and then run the installer (basically something that helps you run configure the app?
No, if you run an installer then you are .... well, running an installer. You are installing using a customer installer like Windows does (by default.) Running a setup is common because you probably want to customize most apps before them run (connecting to a database, putting in a password, whatever) but that's a bit different than installing - the app is already installed at that point.
Basically, an installer is just extracting from a package and copying files into place for you. In the Windows world, it is almost universally also setting a bunch of registry information for uninstall, and stuff.
Mostly, yes. But typically it is, or maybe traditionally it was because, it was putting those files in lots of places rather than all in one. WP goes in a single folder, for example. You can "just copy" everything into place. The idea of an installer is overkill (but nice if you have RPMs like CentOS does.) But if you need registry entries, files in multiple places, then copying gets hard to do.
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@Dashrender Well, this is not the exact topic to answer it completely, but I want to give you a recap.
Using XOA (the turnkey appliance with support), it means that you have nothing to do, just import the virtual machine, it works (because everything is properly installed AND configured inside the VM).
Plus we got an updater, which allow to jump from your current version to the latest one, in one click. We CAN do that because we know how it's built inside XOA. This turnkey solution is available with different flavors (Free, which having some features to administrate your XenServer, Starter, which is good for backups, Enterprise and Premium).
Using the sources: you need to fetch the source code, install dependencies and build it. You CAN'T have the updater, because it can be installed anywhere in your operating system. We can't know which version do you use etc. That's also why we can't have support on those installation (too much possibilities, environment, Node versions, whatever). And you need to update yourself the installation.
So the best product for your needs depends of your use case. If you think you can install it, configure it and update it when you like, without spending too much time: go for the sources!
If you want something working out of the box with our direct support, go for XOA.
There is really 2 public, and that's great: one for the sources, the other for XOA. This last kind of users can help us to have more resources working on the software. The first public will contribute by testing it, reporting issues and also make sometime pull requests to improve it. That's a real "balance" helping everyone.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
Deploying from Source definitely (to me) sounds like you will have C or whatever, code that needs to be compiled, then deployed to the proper directories to be installed.
No, it just means copy. Like.... really, just copy it where you want it to be (unless it is compressed, obviously, then you need to uncompress it first.)
WordPress is a perfect example. If you have a compressed source, you just download wherever you want it and uncompress it. Done.
But if you have WordPress uncompressed, you just copy it where you want it. Done.
Seriously. Just copying.
That's not what I consider installing - that's just downloading and running.
Like the portable versions of apps that run from a memory stick - you don't install them, you simply download them and run them. They will run from almost anywhere.
Installation (to me) involves the configuration of the application in question. Word for example has to be installed because it has to be configured into the registry.
If we were back in the old dos days (on windows) when installing a application could be as simple as copying a directory as Scott mentions.
But what do I know.
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@Dashrender said:
That's not what I consider installing - that's just downloading and running.
That's generally what "deploying from source" means in the open source world. Sometimes, like with XO, you have to do the additional step of typing "npm build", but often, not that. I deploy from source constantly, no extra steps needed.
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@Dashrender said:
Like the portable versions of apps that run from a memory stick - you don't install them, you simply download them and run them. They will run from almost anywhere.
Yup, much like that.
