Rapid Desktop Replacement
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@BRRABill said:
@scottalanmiller said:
but as imaging rights for a full company are only about $120, it doesn't take much IT time saving to justify.
Is that per machine?
This is not the whole picture.
Sure Software Assurance for one workstation is $120, but if you don't have a pre existing VL agreement, it's not just $120 to get into one, or keep it going once you're in.
You have to buy at least 5 Open Value licenses to start a Volume License Agreement. To get into this with the lowest spend that would be 4 Windows Server CALs without Software Assurance ($75/ea) and 1 Workstation Software Assurance license ($120).
So the bare minimum to get started is $420, and this is good for 3 years, then you have to renew, for roughly the same cost.
Also, you can only purchase Workstation SA for computer that you acquired in the last 90 days. So if it's been more than 90 days, you would have to purchase a Workstation upgrade with Software Assurance for $115/yr from CDW or $345 for 3 years, though the renewal will be at the above stated $120 for 3 years.
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@Dashrender said:
@BRRABill said:
@scottalanmiller said:
but as imaging rights for a full company are only about $120, it doesn't take much IT time saving to justify.
Is that per machine?
This is not the whole picture.
Sure Software Assurance for one workstation is $120, but if you don't have a pre existing VL agreement, it's not just $120 to get into one, or keep it going once you're in.
You have to buy at least 5 Open Value licenses to start a Volume License Agreement. To get into this with the lowest spend that would be 4 Windows Server CALs without Software Assurance ($75/ea) and 1 Workstation Software Assurance license ($120).
So the bare minimum to get started is $420, and this is good for 3 years, then you have to renew, for roughly the same cost.
Also, you can only purchase Workstation SA for computer that you acquired in the last 90 days. So if it's been more than 90 days, you would have to purchase a Workstation upgrade with Software Assurance for $115/yr from CDW or $345 for 3 years, though the renewal will be at the above stated $120 for 3 years.
You don't need SA, though, only a VL for Windows. SA is not necessary.
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Looks like I need to start another WINDOWS LICENSING thread.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Drivers are trivial.
For you, maybe. Not for me. Maybe because I'm not really an IT pro, but drivers are my biggest issue with clean installs. Maybe I'm doing it wrong.
For example, I do a clean Windows 7 install. It doesn't have a network adapter driver. I go to hp.com and type in the model of the PC. It gives me two different options. I don't know which one is the card in my particular PC. How do I find out? The other issue is that downloading files from HP.com is just about the slowest website in the world. It can take hours.
HP isn't bad. Lenovo was nightmare. It has an 'update manager' which I installed first, but that failed to download all the drivers. And I spent hours trying to find a WWAN driver. I don't think it actually exists on Lenovo's website. In the end I gave up.
Uninstalling HP's bloatware takes about 10 minutes, if that.
Now if I was doing a re-install, I'd probably use a clean version of Windows, rather than the HP recovery media. But the fact that the PCs comes pre-installed out of the box means sticking with this and not doing a clean install when I purchase the PC is faster. You may have issues with bloatware (I don't see why), but I don't speed is a valid reason for doing a clean install.
HP and Dell both have driver packs. Dells are better though IMO with driver packs.
http://www8.hp.com/us/en/ads/clientmanagement/drivers-pack.html
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@BRRABill said:
@scottalanmiller said:
but as imaging rights for a full company are only about $120, it doesn't take much IT time saving to justify.
Is that per machine?
This is not the whole picture.
Sure Software Assurance for one workstation is $120, but if you don't have a pre existing VL agreement, it's not just $120 to get into one, or keep it going once you're in.
You have to buy at least 5 Open Value licenses to start a Volume License Agreement. To get into this with the lowest spend that would be 4 Windows Server CALs without Software Assurance ($75/ea) and 1 Workstation Software Assurance license ($120).
So the bare minimum to get started is $420, and this is good for 3 years, then you have to renew, for roughly the same cost.
Also, you can only purchase Workstation SA for computer that you acquired in the last 90 days. So if it's been more than 90 days, you would have to purchase a Workstation upgrade with Software Assurance for $115/yr from CDW or $345 for 3 years, though the renewal will be at the above stated $120 for 3 years.
You don't need SA, though, only a VL for Windows. SA is not necessary.
Yep. The imaging rights come from the VL not the SA. We don't even buy SA it's not worth it to us.
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All this stuff really is insane.
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@Jason said:
HP and Dell both have driver packs. Dells are better though IMO with driver packs.
http://www8.hp.com/us/en/ads/clientmanagement/drivers-pack.html
Cheers. That's pretty cool. I hadn't seen that before.
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@BRRABill said:
All this stuff really is insane.
Not really. Remember it is 100% optional. There are excellent non-Windows product choices for customers that don't want to invest in license management.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Not really. Remember it is 100% optional. There are excellent non-Windows product choices for customers that don't want to invest in license management.
I just mean it seems ... overly complicated.
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@BRRABill said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Not really. Remember it is 100% optional. There are excellent non-Windows product choices for customers that don't want to invest in license management.
I just mean it seems ... overly complicated.
Licensing broadly used software has to be, or else people will find ways to use it for cheap. People will always look for loopholes and excuses. The software business is hard, especially when they don't make hardware. It's only complicated because they are trying to let Everyone use it in smart ways. If they only made it for one or two use cases and blocked everyone else, it would be easy to license but hard to use. Instead it is easy to use and hard to license.
But remember, its' always by choice.
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If it is more complicated than it is valuable, then look at alternatives. If the licensing is not so complicated as to make the product not preferred, then they are within the logical pain thresholds.
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Microsoft licensing isn't bad. Cisco makes all licensing complicated. Heck their EULA effectively blocks the used market unless you are a Cisco authorized dealer.
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@BRRABill Check Veeam Endpoint Backup, please. It’s a free backup tool that has scheduled incremental application aware backups (thru MS VSS) and bare metal recovery functionality (similar/dissimilar hardware).
I am not aware of any other solution out there that can do all of the described at no cost. The only fee I can imagine is to share the feedback regarding this tool with me or any other veeam folks, but its optional XD
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@angrydok said:
I am not aware of any other solution out there that can do all of the described for not cost.
FTFY
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@scottalanmiller These Russians
Thanks! -
@angrydok Too much vodka!
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@angrydok Thanks for chiming in.
I looked into that as an option, but it has the same Microsoft licensing restrictions as all the other non-free products I was looking at.
Really the main sticking point now is the spinning up of the image to test its viability for a BMR. The workaround seems to be to actually perform the BMR in a test scenario, but I imagine your product has a virtual spinup component to it as well, right?
Though apples to apples, if I get licensing taken care of, free is surely nice.
I have moved away from desktop backups. Iwas receiving threats via PM, so I figured that was the way to go.
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@BRRABill said:
Really the main sticking point now is the spinning up of the image to test its viability for a BMR. The workaround seems to be to actually perform the BMR in a test scenario, but I imagine your product has a virtual spinup component to it as well, right?
No, Veeam is backup software, not a virtualization platform or appliance. This is a desktop focused product and would never have a virtualization component to it. It just backs you up and restores, you decide what to do.
Remember this is a full backup product, most of the use cases are not doing a BMR but restoring individual files. So the important restore use case you can test trivially anytime that you want.
If you want to do a BMR test you put another drive into the desktop that you are working with and do a restore to it and test that way.
But bottom line, no matter what products are made, don't do image restores of desktops.
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I think I may have alluded to it, but I got the pleasure of rebuilding an entire server yesterday. Our main server, which died in the middle of the afternoon.
Karma, i guess.
I'm going to eventually do a full writeup and post it in a separate thread.
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@hobbit666 said:
@Carnival-Boy said:
For example, I do a clean Windows 7 install. It doesn't have a network adapter driver. I go to hp.com and type in the model of the PC. It gives me two different options. I don't know which one is the card in my particular PC. How do I find out? The other issue is that downloading files from HP.com is just about the slowest website in the world. It can take hours.
Tip here, if you go to device manager and click on any device. Go into properties --> Details --> Select Hardware ID's. This will give you VEN and DEV numbers. Go to pcidatabase.com and put either number in and it will tell you the manufacturer and device, helps me a lot when I'm not sure what driver to get.
Thanks for this.
A list, not a forum page would be awesome for helpful weblinks like these.
