Chromebook Shipments Up 67%
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@Carnival-Boy said:
Now this starts to break down with Windows Home, because Windows is a lot more powerful. Because it's powerful, it's easier for a user to screw up. Because you can't trust a user, you need to manage them. That becomes difficult without AD. But not impossible. I'd want to install a locked-down version of Windows, and only release features that are really useful. So it's almost running in kiosk mode. Now I'd only really consider this if I preferred Office 365 to Google Apps, which I do.
Windows is more exposed, it is true. It is a tradeoff. Users rarely can leverage that power for good, only to hurt themselves (outside of gaming where it is just needed, for now.)
If you look at Windows RT, that was an attempt by Microsoft to mimic Chromium. But it was horribly done. One worked beautifully, the other was useless.
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@scottalanmiller said:
When I say Chromebooks, I am definitely not asserting that Google Apps are a foregone conclusion in any way.
How easy is it to manage Chromebooks without Google Apps? You need a Google account to access a Chromebook, and the management console will not work with free Google accounts, so I wonder, do you need Google Apps? How does user level management work without it?
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@Carnival-Boy said:
Also, some of the management you talk about can be done very cheaply on Windows Home PCs with 3rd party applications, like LogMeIn or GFI. I'm sure there are others. AD is overkill in a lot of environments, and I'm sure there's a middle ground between Chrome and full blown AD that Windows Home can fulfil.
LogMeIn is not cheap to have any management features. It's actually quite expensive. GFI is lessso, but still not cheap. Windows Home is good when you want zero management (except maybe AV) and no user control and just a platform for running software.
The middle ground is more likely UNIX machines where you get all the power of Windows at less cost.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
How easy is it to manage Chromebooks without Google Apps? ?
I'm lost. Google Apps doesn't manage a Chromebook in any way. It's a web service. That's like asking how is it easy to manage a Chromebook without Office 365 or Flickr? Those are just websites, they don't manage anything.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
You need a Google account to access a Chromebook, and the management console will not work with free Google accounts, so I wonder, do you need Google Apps? How does user level management work without it?
User management is ONLY with the $150 Google Management Console. Only. No other way. No amount of Google Apps or any other web application manages the device users at all. There is only the one method.
You don't need Google Apps at all. I've worked with several Chromebooks and don't use Google Apps on any. Adding it doesn't add user management.
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Just like in Windows. If you do Windows Home, no matter if you use Office 365 or not, you get no user management at the OS level.
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@scottalanmiller said:
User management is ONLY with the $150 Google Management Console.
That's what I'm asking. How do you do user management? How do you create a user in Google Management Console that isn't a Google Apps user? I use a number of Google services, and they require that each user has at least a Google Apps account. If the management console doesn't, how does it work? What user account does the user logon to the Chromebook with, if it isn't a Google Apps account?
I'm not doubting you, I'm just interested.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
@scottalanmiller said:
User management is ONLY with the $150 Google Management Console.
That's what I'm asking. How do you do user management? How do you create a user in Google Management Console that isn't a Google Apps user? I use a number of Google services, and they require that each user has at least a Google Apps account. If the management console doesn't, how does it work? What user account does the user logon to the Chromebook with, if it isn't a Google Apps account?
I'm not doubting you, I'm just interested.
Oh, they are tied together, if that is the question. It's a Google account at the end of the day. But my Google account, for example, does not have Google Apps. That's an additional product that you have to buy. But it is a single directory services system tying all accounts together at the end of the day. THink one massive, global AD system.
Same as Office 365, it uses AD behind the scenes. Just in a way that you can't access or use.
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SAM is right: . They already are. They are a major force in new deployments. We have 9 people in our sales group, all running an HP chromebox, with Google apps. Totally Windows-free environment, with everything in the cloud.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
I agree that BB machines suck - but how does sorta forcing businesses/users to buy better equipment help th ecosystem?
Teaches them to talk to IT pros rather than bypassing IT for purchasing and just making them work with whatever they buy. As someone who has run IT for business that do this over and over, I actually appreciate the incredibly slap that Microsoft gives them. Without it, they would never, ever learn. With it, they still struggle. They think that every purchase will somehow be "different than last time."
They certainly do think that!
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@scottalanmiller said:
Oh, they are tied together, if that is the question. It's a Google account at the end of the day. But my Google account, for example, does not have Google Apps. That's an additional product that you have to buy. But it is a single directory services system tying all accounts together at the end of the day. THink one massive, global AD system.
And you use the management console? How do you associate your Google account to your domain in order to manage the account through the console? The only way I've been able to control users is by creating Google Apps accounts for them (not for Chromebooks but for other Google services). I guess the management console works differently but I don't see how this is a stupid question.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
And you use the management console? How do you associate your Google account to your domain in order to manage the account through the console? The only way I've been able to control users is by creating Google Apps accounts for them (not for Chromebooks but for other Google services). I guess the management console works differently but I don't see how this is a stupid question.
No, I don't have a Chromebook fleet in that way and that's why I didn't know the cost offhand.
I'm not aware of a way to sync Google Accounts to AD.
You use "control users" in a completely different way that people normally use that phrase. You are controlling users exclusively for one application online, not for systems, correct? That's a huge distinction. Normally when people refer to managing users, they mean on the systems, not for arbitrary online services. Both are important, but the generic phrase "managing users" it is assumed applies to the systems for which Google Apps does not apply.
The Management Console managers the users that apply to Chromebooks. Google Apps and Chromebooks are two separate things.
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Google Apps, separately, from Chromebooks does have a nice AD sync. But that, TTBOMK, is exclusively for Google Apps management and will not work for other features as far as I am aware.
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When I say domain, I'm not talking about an AD domain. To use a Chromebook you have to log in to a domain (other than guest access). That domain can be a Google domain (eg [email protected]) or a company domain (eg [email protected]). There are no local accounts you can log in with.
The management console has to be associated with a company domain (eg mycompany.com). How do you create free user accounts and associate them with that domain. Can you use Google domain accounts (eg gmail accounts)? And if so, why do you need a company domain in the first place?
It's a simple question. I don't see how this is like Flickr at all. I wish I hadn't asked, I was only mildly curious.
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Without actually knowing - I'm sure @scottalanmiller is right - the 'account' name matches exactly the same as it would to a Google Apps account name.
so you are acme.com and you register acme.com with Google Management (because you've never used Google Apps before).
Now, if, in the future you want to add Google Apps, I'd be willing to bet they simply glob onto your existing Google Management accounts, and you'd be done.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
When I say domain, I'm not talking about an AD domain. To use a Chromebook you have to log in to a domain (other than guest access). That domain can be a Google domain (eg [email protected]) or a company domain (eg [email protected]). There are no local accounts you can log in with.
Ah ha, okay, now I see what you are saying. My apologies. I was not aware that they used the domain terminology for that. My experience with Chromebooks has never exposed them using that. That makes sense, though, and I know that there are no local accounts.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
The management console has to be associated with a company domain (eg mycompany.com). How do you create free user accounts and associate them with that domain. Can you use Google domain accounts (eg gmail accounts)? And if so, why do you need a company domain in the first place?
Now I understand what you are saying, I think. You are basically asking if the Chrome Management Console is able to create accounts that are not tied to a Google Apps instance?
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@Carnival-Boy said:
It's a simple question. I don't see how this is like Flickr at all. I wish I hadn't asked, I was only mildly curious.
My point with Flickr is that it is a web application that has user accounts but is not tied at the system level to accounts. It lives separately from the system that you run on.
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It looks like you have the choice of a free Google account or the Google Apps accounts when setting up users on devices:
https://support.google.com/chrome/a/answer/1289314?hl=en
It's not super clear, but makes sense that the Chromebook management can be tied to Google Apps or can be used with normal Google accounts.
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You're right, it's not super clear, but it looks that way. I did some Googling and came up with pretty much nothing, which I suspect is because you could count on one hand the number of organisations who are using the Management Console but aren't Google Apps users. Especially as for education (the main users of Chromebooks), Google Apps is completely free.
