RAID - Two Arrays for Server? Array 1 for Windows Host and Array 2 for VMs and Data?

Dashrender

The hypervisor uses so little resources, that the spindles would be wasted performance. Definitely better off making one big RAID 10 (or if you can afford it - one big RAID 5 on enterprise SSD).

But SSD and RAID 1 definitely a huge waste of money and resources for the hypervisor.

jmoore

Do you have a real need for seperate arrays? If not I would not complicate it ans just do raid 10.

JasGot

@Dashrender said in RAID - Two Arrays for Server? Array 1 for Windows Host and Array 2 for VMs and Data?:

The hypervisor uses so little resources,

Dash is right, and if you use Hyper-V Server, I'm not sure if the host OS even touches the drives once they are up and in RAM Very little resources and disk usage!

JasGot

@jmoore said in RAID - Two Arrays for Server? Array 1 for Windows Host and Array 2 for VMs and Data?:

Do you have a real need for separate arrays? If not I would not complicate it ans just do raid 10.

I would agree. One of the only valid reasons for multiple arrays in an environment like this is because you are running on older RAID controllers with size limit. Like the Perc 6i 10TB limit. Go big, or go home!

scottalanmiller

@Obsolesce said in RAID - Two Arrays for Server? Array 1 for Windows Host and Array 2 for VMs and Data?:

@openit said in RAID - Two Arrays for Server? Array 1 for Windows Host and Array 2 for VMs and Data?:

Hi there,

For new server setup, I wanted to know which one is recommended?

Option 1:

RAID Array 1 = RAID 1 with 500 GB SSD [ for Windows Server Host]
RAID Array 2 = RAID 10 with SAS/SATA drives (not confirmed about size and type of drives yet) [ for VMs and Data]

Option 2:

RAID Array 1 = RAID 10 with SAS/SATA [ for Windows Host, VMs and Data]

Thanks!
@scottalanmiller @Obsolesce @Pete-S @Dashrender @stacksofplates @dbeato

OBR10 with separate partitions for OS C: and VM storage D:. You can use the SSDs E: to accelerate D with Enmotus or something similar, or for a fast tier VM storage.

This. The hypervisor is absolutely tiny and has no real IO to speak of. Giving the hypervisor fast SSD is a total waste, there is all but zero benefit from it. Only the OBR approach puts your money and performance where it matters.

scottalanmiller

@JasGot said in RAID - Two Arrays for Server? Array 1 for Windows Host and Array 2 for VMs and Data?:

@Dashrender said in RAID - Two Arrays for Server? Array 1 for Windows Host and Array 2 for VMs and Data?:

The hypervisor uses so little resources,

Dash is right, and if you use Hyper-V Server, I'm not sure if the host OS even touches the drives once they are up and in RAM Very little resources and disk usage!

This is true with any hypervisor. Hypervisors live in RAM, they have to for all intents and purposes. The disks that they are on just don't matter. That's why things like network boot or SD cards work just fine, too.

Grey

Maybe do a hypervisor off a USB stick or SDcard, and @StarWind_Software for the storage to be able to combine the 2 kinds of drives as a single solution?

Obsolesce

@Grey said in RAID - Two Arrays for Server? Array 1 for Windows Host and Array 2 for VMs and Data?:

Maybe do a hypervisor off a USB stick or SDcard, and @StarWind_Software for the storage to be able to combine the 2 kinds of drives as a single solution?

I tried that approach in the past, but unless you get enterprise grade USB sticks, they have a high and quick fail rate (in my own personal experience). Luckily where I did use them, they were mirrored, so it wasn't a big problem, but it easily could have been.

The OBR10 approach has been rock solid in every single case.

scottalanmiller

@Obsolesce said in RAID - Two Arrays for Server? Array 1 for Windows Host and Array 2 for VMs and Data?:

@Grey said in RAID - Two Arrays for Server? Array 1 for Windows Host and Array 2 for VMs and Data?:

Maybe do a hypervisor off a USB stick or SDcard, and @StarWind_Software for the storage to be able to combine the 2 kinds of drives as a single solution?

I tried that approach in the past, but unless you get enterprise grade USB sticks, they have a high and quick fail rate (in my own personal experience). Luckily where I did use them, they were mirrored, so it wasn't a big problem, but it easily could have been.

The OBR10 approach has been rock solid in every single case.

That's been my experience. The USB sticks just haven't been worth the extra hassle. Reinstalling a hypervisor is so trivial (and so rare) that it doesn't seem to matter.

JaredBusch

I typically install the hypervisor on a single SATA drive connected to the motherboard.

It is not a disk I’m worried about losing. Everything can be rebuilt easily if that drive is lost.

scottalanmiller

@JaredBusch said in RAID - Two Arrays for Server? Array 1 for Windows Host and Array 2 for VMs and Data?:

I typically install the hypervisor on a single SATA drive connected to the motherboard.

It is not a disk I’m worried about losing. Everything can be rebuilt easily if that drive is lost.

And easy to backup and restore. Simple data, tiny data.

Obsolesce

@scottalanmiller said in RAID - Two Arrays for Server? Array 1 for Windows Host and Array 2 for VMs and Data?:

@Obsolesce said in RAID - Two Arrays for Server? Array 1 for Windows Host and Array 2 for VMs and Data?:

@Grey said in RAID - Two Arrays for Server? Array 1 for Windows Host and Array 2 for VMs and Data?:

Maybe do a hypervisor off a USB stick or SDcard, and @StarWind_Software for the storage to be able to combine the 2 kinds of drives as a single solution?

I tried that approach in the past, but unless you get enterprise grade USB sticks, they have a high and quick fail rate (in my own personal experience). Luckily where I did use them, they were mirrored, so it wasn't a big problem, but it easily could have been.

The OBR10 approach has been rock solid in every single case.

That's been my experience. The USB sticks just haven't been worth the extra hassle. Reinstalling a hypervisor is so trivial (and so rare) that it doesn't seem to matter.

Yeah, but it's an additional PITA because the ones I used were plugged in inside the server... as they should be IMO, because there's just something about having USB sticks sticking out of servers in a rack that bothers me.

scottalanmiller

@Obsolesce said in RAID - Two Arrays for Server? Array 1 for Windows Host and Array 2 for VMs and Data?:

@scottalanmiller said in RAID - Two Arrays for Server? Array 1 for Windows Host and Array 2 for VMs and Data?:

@Obsolesce said in RAID - Two Arrays for Server? Array 1 for Windows Host and Array 2 for VMs and Data?:

@Grey said in RAID - Two Arrays for Server? Array 1 for Windows Host and Array 2 for VMs and Data?:

Maybe do a hypervisor off a USB stick or SDcard, and @StarWind_Software for the storage to be able to combine the 2 kinds of drives as a single solution?

I tried that approach in the past, but unless you get enterprise grade USB sticks, they have a high and quick fail rate (in my own personal experience). Luckily where I did use them, they were mirrored, so it wasn't a big problem, but it easily could have been.

The OBR10 approach has been rock solid in every single case.

That's been my experience. The USB sticks just haven't been worth the extra hassle. Reinstalling a hypervisor is so trivial (and so rare) that it doesn't seem to matter.

Yeah, but it's an additional PITA because the ones I used were plugged in inside the server... as they should be IMO, because there's just something about having USB sticks sticking out of servers in a rack that bothers me.

That too.

DustinB3403

@openit said in RAID - Two Arrays for Server? Array 1 for Windows Host and Array 2 for VMs and Data?:

Hi there,

For new server setup, I wanted to know which one is recommended?

Option 1:

RAID Array 1 = RAID 1 with 500 GB SSD [ for Windows Server Host]
RAID Array 2 = RAID 10 with SAS/SATA drives (not confirmed about size and type of drives yet) [ for VMs and Data]

Option 2:

RAID Array 1 = RAID 10 with SAS/SATA [ for Windows Host, VMs and Data]

Thanks!
@scottalanmiller @Obsolesce @Pete-S @Dashrender @stacksofplates @dbeato

No, the acronym is One Big Array - it exists because splitting up an array is wasting processing resources.

Obsolesce

@DustinB3403 said in RAID - Two Arrays for Server? Array 1 for Windows Host and Array 2 for VMs and Data?:

@openit said in RAID - Two Arrays for Server? Array 1 for Windows Host and Array 2 for VMs and Data?:

Hi there,

For new server setup, I wanted to know which one is recommended?

Option 1:

RAID Array 1 = RAID 1 with 500 GB SSD [ for Windows Server Host]
RAID Array 2 = RAID 10 with SAS/SATA drives (not confirmed about size and type of drives yet) [ for VMs and Data]

Option 2:

RAID Array 1 = RAID 10 with SAS/SATA [ for Windows Host, VMs and Data]

Thanks!
@scottalanmiller @Obsolesce @Pete-S @Dashrender @stacksofplates @dbeato

No, the acronym is One Big Array - it exists because splitting up an array is wasting processing resources.

Where tf did you see OBA?

black3dynamite

Here are some sample host builds using Hyper-V.
https://www.altaro.com/hyper-v/hyper-v-small-business-sample-host-builds/

scottalanmiller

@black3dynamite said in RAID - Two Arrays for Server? Array 1 for Windows Host and Array 2 for VMs and Data?:

Here are some sample host builds using Hyper-V.
https://www.altaro.com/hyper-v/hyper-v-small-business-sample-host-builds/

Quite a good article.

1337

This is what we do.

Option 3.
Hypervisor on satadom or small SSD drive.
Performance storage array with SSDs. Raid 1 or 10.
Capacity storage array with 3.5" HDDs. Raid 1 or 10.

Each VMs gets the kind of storage it needs.
RAID1 is default for the arrays.
RAID10 is only used when the capacity is needed (always as few drives as possible).

Right now I'm prepping a RAID 1 array 2x16TB that will go into one of our hosts.

md4 : active raid1 sdm[1] sdl[0]
      15625748288 blocks super 1.2 [2/2] [UU]
      [>....................]  resync =  0.6% (99811008/15625748288) finish=1322.2min speed=195699K/sec

We'll see how long it takes. Supposedly around 23 hours.

scottalanmiller

@Pete-S said in RAID - Two Arrays for Server? Array 1 for Windows Host and Array 2 for VMs and Data?:

This is what we do.

Option 3.
Hypervisor on satadom or small SSD drive.
Performance storage array with SSDs. Raid 1 or 10.
Capacity storage array with 3.5" HDDs. Raid 1 or 10.

Each VMs gets the kind of storage it needs.

RAID1 is default for the arrays.

RAID10 is only used when the capacity is needed (always as few drives as possible).

Right now I'm prepping a RAID 1 array 2x16TB that will go into one of our hosts.
md4 : active raid1 sdm[1] sdl[0]
      15625748288 blocks super 1.2 [2/2] [UU]
      [>....................]  resync =  0.6% (99811008/15625748288) finish=1322.2min speed=195699K/sec
We'll see how long it takes. Supposedly around 23 hours.

Same here.

Dashrender

@scottalanmiller said in RAID - Two Arrays for Server? Array 1 for Windows Host and Array 2 for VMs and Data?:

@Pete-S said in RAID - Two Arrays for Server? Array 1 for Windows Host and Array 2 for VMs and Data?:
This is what we do.

Option 3.
Hypervisor on satadom or small SSD drive.
Performance storage array with SSDs. Raid 1 or 10.
Capacity storage array with 3.5" HDDs. Raid 1 or 10.

Each VMs gets the kind of storage it needs.

RAID1 is default for the arrays.

RAID10 is only used when the capacity is needed (always as few drives as possible).

Right now I'm prepping a RAID 1 array 2x16TB that will go into one of our hosts.
md4 : active raid1 sdm[1] sdl[0]
      15625748288 blocks super 1.2 [2/2] [UU]
      [>....................]  resync =  0.6% (99811008/15625748288) finish=1322.2min speed=195699K/sec
We'll see how long it takes. Supposedly around 23 hours.
Same here.

So you've moved to SSD with RAID 1 or RAID 10, no more RAID 5?

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