Using Skype For Business For Conference Calls
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Well we all know Scott tends to be a bit overzealous with MS bashing.
While the SfB platform and Teams is a bit much it does function well enough.
Specifically if you require SSO, calendar syncing etc.
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Thanks for the perspectives.
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@DustinB3403 said in Using Skype For Business For Conference Calls:
Well we all know Scott tends to be a bit overzealous with MS bashing.
I just don't give big companies a free pass for making malware. If anyone else did that, no one would question it. MS does it, and it is "MS bashing" to treat them like anyone else. Invasive, unwanted software is what it is, no matter who makes it. MS isn't a special snowflake.
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@scottalanmiller said in Using Skype For Business For Conference Calls:
@DustinB3403 said in Using Skype For Business For Conference Calls:
Well we all know Scott tends to be a bit overzealous with MS bashing.
I just don't give big companies a free pass for making malware. If anyone else did that, no one would question it. MS does it, and it is "MS bashing" to treat them like anyone else. Invasive, unwanted software is what it is, no matter who makes it. MS isn't a special snowflake.
Sadly, MS started doing this hard core in Windows 10. You uninstall shit in 1507, and when you upgrade to 1607 that shit returns. Like it is impossible for MS to look at the old config before the upgrade and apply that same config post upgrade.
MS is clearly SHOVING Teams down everyone's throat - they indicated in a release note at some point that Teams was going to be auto deployed to all O365 users of the full Office install. And I've definitely seen that be the case at one client.
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@Dashrender said in Using Skype For Business For Conference Calls:
Sadly, MS started doing this hard core in Windows 10. You uninstall shit in 1507, and when you upgrade to 1607 that shit returns. Like it is impossible for MS to look at the old config before the upgrade and apply that same config post upgrade.
OneDrive comes to mind when I read this :pouting_face:
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@Dashrender said in Using Skype For Business For Conference Calls:
MS is clearly SHOVING Teams down everyone's throat
A clear sign that they don't believe that people will choose it on its merits.
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@bnrstnr said in Using Skype For Business For Conference Calls:
@Dashrender said in Using Skype For Business For Conference Calls:
Sadly, MS started doing this hard core in Windows 10. You uninstall shit in 1507, and when you upgrade to 1607 that shit returns. Like it is impossible for MS to look at the old config before the upgrade and apply that same config post upgrade.
OneDrive comes to mind when I read this :pouting_face:
Another product they clearly don't have faith in to be chosen on merits. And I agree.
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@scottalanmiller said in Using Skype For Business For Conference Calls:
@Dashrender said in Using Skype For Business For Conference Calls:
MS is clearly SHOVING Teams down everyone's throat
A clear sign that they don't believe that people will choose it on its merits.
Now this statement is a borderline bash. Sure it's shoving.. but at the same time, knocking off/replacing an incumbent is often challenging to say the least.
I won't go so far as to say they won't.. but I definitely see where you're coming from.
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@scottalanmiller said in Using Skype For Business For Conference Calls:
@bnrstnr said in Using Skype For Business For Conference Calls:
@Dashrender said in Using Skype For Business For Conference Calls:
Sadly, MS started doing this hard core in Windows 10. You uninstall shit in 1507, and when you upgrade to 1607 that shit returns. Like it is impossible for MS to look at the old config before the upgrade and apply that same config post upgrade.
OneDrive comes to mind when I read this :pouting_face:
Another product they clearly don't have faith in to be chosen on merits. And I agree.
Now this one I mostly disagree with. Because - consumers. Consumers will frequently kill something without ever actually knowing what it is, why it can be good, etc. In this case I think MS is trying to get consumers to use it for backups if nothing else. Granted, they should be selling it that way and they aren't.
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So to be the devils advocate here - anything that comes pre-loaded on your OS should be classified as malware if you immediately remove it once the OS is operational.
LibreOffice - malware I don't want it - don't install it. But every time I install nix it's there!
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@DustinB3403 said in Using Skype For Business For Conference Calls:
So to be the devils advocate here - anything that comes pre-loaded on your OS should be classified as malware if you immediately remove it once the OS is operational.
LibreOffice - malware I don't want it - don't install it. But every time I install nix it's there!
I disagree, I think the problem with Microsoft is that programs that were uninstalled come back after every "feature update."
If I upgrade from Fedora 29 to 30 and didn't have LibreOffice installed, it doesn't randomly come back and pop up all kinds of shit harassing me to use it every time I login.
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@DustinB3403 said in Using Skype For Business For Conference Calls:
So to be the devils advocate here - anything that comes pre-loaded on your OS should be classified as malware if you immediately remove it once the OS is operational.
LibreOffice - malware I don't want it - don't install it. But every time I install nix it's there!
There is a huge difference between "I chose a package that included it" and "I removed it, and it comes back over and over"
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@bnrstnr said in Using Skype For Business For Conference Calls:
I disagree, I think the problem with Microsoft is that programs that were uninstalled come back after every "feature update."
Teams comes back without an update! MS even has docs about how there are two apps that make sure it gets reinstalled the moment you remove it. Have to kill both, at the same time, as they literally are malware-designed "don't let it be removed".
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@bnrstnr said in Using Skype For Business For Conference Calls:
If I upgrade from Fedora 29 to 30 and didn't have LibreOffice installed, it doesn't randomly come back and pop up all kinds of shit harassing me to use it every time I login.
Nor does it install new things, without being given permission, after the fact. Windows will just keep adding things that I removed, or adds different things to replace ones I removed.
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@bnrstnr Exactly. That was the first one I thought of too.
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One of the issues for us with Teams, is that we don't have a subscription to it, but it installs it and turns on a trial by default if we accidentally let any of the users open it. So it's invasive in three ways...
- It forcibly installs, and then reinstalls itself, in defiance of the system admin and the Windows install system.
- It forcibly starts itself and puts an icon on the desktop, not only without permission, but even after being set to not do so.
- It aggressively opens accounts by way of unprivileged users to trick them into using an unauthorized system.
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@Dashrender said in Using Skype For Business For Conference Calls:
@scottalanmiller said in Using Skype For Business For Conference Calls:
@Dashrender said in Using Skype For Business For Conference Calls:
MS is clearly SHOVING Teams down everyone's throat
A clear sign that they don't believe that people will choose it on its merits.
Now this statement is a borderline bash. Sure it's shoving.. but at the same time, knocking off/replacing an incumbent is often challenging to say the least.
I won't go so far as to say they won't.. but I definitely see where you're coming from.
If Scott doest like it and/or has features he doesn't want or use, it's malware and evil.
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@scottalanmiller said in Using Skype For Business For Conference Calls:
One of the issues for us with Teams, is that we don't have a subscription to it, but it installs it and turns on a trial by default if we accidentally let any of the users open it. So it's invasive in three ways...
- It forcibly installs, and then reinstalls itself, in defiance of the system admin and the Windows install system.
- It forcibly starts itself and puts an icon on the desktop, not only without permission, but even after being set to not do so.
- It aggressively opens accounts by way of unprivileged users to trick them into using an unauthorized system.
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@Obsolesce said in Using Skype For Business For Conference Calls:
@scottalanmiller said in Using Skype For Business For Conference Calls:
One of the issues for us with Teams, is that we don't have a subscription to it, but it installs it and turns on a trial by default if we accidentally let any of the users open it. So it's invasive in three ways...
- It forcibly installs, and then reinstalls itself, in defiance of the system admin and the Windows install system.
- It forcibly starts itself and puts an icon on the desktop, not only without permission, but even after being set to not do so.
- It aggressively opens accounts by way of unprivileged users to trick them into using an unauthorized system.
That's been the standard approach for several years now, it was a major shift from what I know I was used to (MSI) but it does work.
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@scottalanmiller said in Using Skype For Business For Conference Calls:
@bnrstnr said in Using Skype For Business For Conference Calls:
If I upgrade from Fedora 29 to 30 and didn't have LibreOffice installed, it doesn't randomly come back and pop up all kinds of shit harassing me to use it every time I login.
Nor does it install new things, without being given permission, after the fact. Windows will just keep adding things that I removed, or adds different things to replace ones I removed.
This isn't fair to say Windows does this - as Windows doesn't, at least not in the case of Teams. The fact that Office from O365 is install is what is doing that...
OneDrve - OK, that's Windows.
