Free Veeam for DGraph Linux Restore



  • @Jimmy9008 said in Free Veeam for Linux/Restore:

    @scottalanmiller said in Free Veeam for Linux/Restore:

    @DustinB3403 said in Free Veeam for Linux/Restore:

    I'm now ignoring this topic as I'm not able to handle this conversation today.

    Good luck with whatever custom script devops setup you end up purchasing/building/hooking for.

    Better than ignoring his corruption entirely and acting like he doesnt have a challenge to tackle and pushing a totally useless solution that requires him to change everything and just puts him back to square zero for no reason.

    With a backup that cant be relied upon.

    Exactly. Its crash consistent only.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Free Veeam for Linux/Restore:

    a full power down of the VM

    Which isn't out of the question... not really. Does this database need to be up 100% of the time?



  • @coliver said in Free Veeam for Linux/Restore:

    @scottalanmiller said in Free Veeam for Linux/Restore:

    a full power down of the VM

    Which isn't out of the question... not really. Does this database need to be up 100% of the time?

    Not 100% of the time. No.

    But equally, daily downtime just for purposes of a backup is too frequent, even if only a few minutes. Its something we can plan for and will find a way. May be the case of just using the built in backup tool, and having documented rebuild process should the VM fail.



  • @coliver said in Free Veeam for Linux/Restore:

    @scottalanmiller said in Free Veeam for Linux/Restore:

    a full power down of the VM

    Which isn't out of the question... not really. Does this database need to be up 100% of the time?

    No. But kinda silly.



  • @Jimmy9008 said in Free Veeam for Linux/Restore:

    @coliver said in Free Veeam for Linux/Restore:

    @scottalanmiller said in Free Veeam for Linux/Restore:

    a full power down of the VM

    Which isn't out of the question... not really. Does this database need to be up 100% of the time?

    Not 100% of the time. No.

    But equally, daily downtime just for purposes of a backup is too frequent, even if only a few minutes. Its something we can plan for and will find a way. May be the case of just using the built in backup tool, and having documented rebuild process should the VM fail.

    There is no reasonable way, and no reasonable reason, to avoid the built in tool. If you want a traditional backup model, just use the native tool to make a local backup, then backup then VM as you are now. Its unnecessarily heavy. But it will work.



  • @Jimmy9008 said in Free Veeam for Linux/Restore:

    @coliver said in Free Veeam for Linux/Restore:

    @scottalanmiller said in Free Veeam for Linux/Restore:

    a full power down of the VM

    Which isn't out of the question... not really. Does this database need to be up 100% of the time?

    Not 100% of the time. No.

    But equally, daily downtime just for purposes of a backup is too frequent, even if only a few minutes. Its something we can plan for and will find a way. May be the case of just using the built in backup tool, and having documented rebuild process should the VM fail.

    This is probably the way to go. Even building a template/cold spare to spin a clone up when/if something goes wrong may be a good idea. Then you just restore the data to it and you're good to go. No nearly as automated as the Devops approach but feasible for someone without that experience to just load up.





  • You all need to learn to just ignore Scott when he takes his shiny toy and runs with it.



  • @Jimmy9008 I stopped reading early on because Scott.

    Did you actually ever try to make and restore a backup from the hypervisor with Veeam?

    A hypervisor level snapshot is not the same thing as guest backup. it is different tools at a different layer.

    It may or may not work with your application, but it is a totally different mechanism.

    While state solutions may be nice, they are by no means the bbest solution @scottalanmiller always makes them out to be. It add complexity and requires a total change of the design of your IT infrastructure.

    Shit is not, ever, as black and white and Scott tries to make it.



  • @JaredBusch said in Free Veeam for DGraph Linux Restore:

    @Jimmy9008 I stopped reading early on because Scott.

    Did you actually ever try to make and restore a backup from the hypervisor with Veeam?

    A hypervisor level snapshot is not the same thing as guest backup. it is different tools at a different layer.

    It may or may not work with your application, but it is a totally different mechanism.

    While state solutions may be nice, they are by no means the bbest solution @scottalanmiller always makes them out to be. It add complexity and requires a total change of the design of your IT infrastructure.

    Shit is not, ever, as black and white and Scott tries to make it.

    Actually they are the same mechanism here. Its an LVM, just one layer down. Otherwise identical. I know you love hypervisor backups but they arent magic and within this context they work identically.

    Dont give false hope. If you know how hypervisor backups work you know that they cant solve this problem.



  • @JaredBusch said in Free Veeam for DGraph Linux Restore:

    You all need to learn to just ignore Scott when he takes his shiny toy and runs with it.

    The shiny toy here is pushing hypervisor backups blindly.



  • @JaredBusch said in [Free Veeam for DGraph Linux

    Shit is not, ever, as black and white and Scott tries to make it.

    Actually it is black and white. You are pretending it isnt to push your darling product that you always push without looking into what his issue is or understanding how the LVM layer issue is identical between solutions.



  • @Jimmy9008 said in Free Veeam for DGraph Linux Restore:

    Hi Folks,

    I have used the free Windows Veeam backup tool for a while, love it. Works perfectly. We have a Linux machine (CentOS 7) which needs to be backed up regularly, so I have turned to the Linux Veeam tool (I expect it would be just as good as the tool for Windows).

    Installed, updated, and setup to backup to our NAS. Backup ran successfully. I am able to restore the backup using the recovery disk from Veeam and the backup file from my NAS. Seems smooth... the problem though, the software on the Linux server (DGraph) stops working when restored from the backup.

    The machine boots fine, I can access the desktop, but when trying to run DGraph I get errors. I expect the application isnt happy about being backed up by Veeam when on, so I tested some more.

    I reinstalled DGraph and got it working again. Then, I ended the DGraph process (or service - whatever its called in Linux?)... then I ran the backup. I guess if the application is offline when the backup is made, the backup must work fine. But upon restore DGraph still does not work.

    Not sure what is going on, even with DGraph off before the backup the application fails. Any ideas?

    In Windows, if the software isnt running I have always seen a backup work successfully. Not posted on to Veeam forums yet, wanted to see if any ideas from here.

    Any other tools I should try other than Veeam?

    Best,
    Jim

    If I read correctly, I understand you're using a Hyper-V host running a CentOS 7 VM that has DGraph installed.

    I wouldn't put any backup software on the CentOS 7 VM. I'm saying this, first, because I don't know what DGraph is, and second, there are reasons to put backup software on VMs, but I don't see a reason to in your post.

    I would back up the VM through the Hyper-V host using Windows Server Backup. For a smaller number of VMs, this works very well as far as backup process and restores. It's pretty simple and just works. In one example, I've used it in production on a Hyper-V Server 2016 host for up to about 60 VMs totalling roughly 15 TB back then, before I was sure WSB was way out-grown.

    The free Veeam you are using in your Windows VMs will not back up VMs via the host... meaning you cannot install the free Veeam edition on your Hyper-V host and expect it to back up your VMs.

    Host-level backups of your VMs will fully take advantage of the VSS capabilities in Hyper-V. Also, in your CentOS 7 VM, be sure to install the hyperv-daemons package:

    sudo yum install hyperv-daemons

    655fce9b-e8e5-4ccc-8547-c567d51bfb5f-image.png



  • @Obsolesce you already know from this thread that that doesnt solve the problem. You are just repeating the same issue that he was trying to resolve.

    VSS causes this issue the same as any other LVM.

    Read the thread. Weve beaten this to death. VSS isnt magic.



  • While Jared likes to pretend Im pushing agent backup, ive clearly nit recommended agent or agentless. Ive explained ad nauseum how they share a mechanism that doesnt work here and neither can work without a native backup.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Free Veeam for DGraph Linux Restore:

    @Obsolesce you already know from this thread that that doesnt solve the problem. You are just repeating the same issue that he was trying to resolve.

    VSS causes this issue the same as any other LVM.

    Read the thread. Weve beaten this to death. VSS isnt magic.

    I will have to read more. I posted after only really reading the OP.



  • @Obsolesce said in Free Veeam for DGraph Linux Restore:

    The free Veeam you are using in your Windows VMs will not back up VMs via the host... meaning you cannot install the free Veeam edition on your Hyper-V host and expect it to back up your VMs.

    Actually it absolutely does do this. You are limited to ad-hoc VeeamZIP creation, but it works perfectly.



  • @Obsolesce said in Free Veeam for DGraph Linux Restore:

    @scottalanmiller said in Free Veeam for DGraph Linux Restore:

    @Obsolesce you already know from this thread that that doesnt solve the problem. You are just repeating the same issue that he was trying to resolve.

    VSS causes this issue the same as any other LVM.

    Read the thread. Weve beaten this to death. VSS isnt magic.

    I will have to read more. I posted after only really reading the OP.

    His DB doesnt quiesce and he cant find processes to stop manually. So anything using an LVM whether a Linux agent or Hyper-V's LVM called VSS will be expected to corrupt sometimes. Even when not clustered. Becayse it is a DB, not a storage quiescence problem.



  • @JaredBusch said in Free Veeam for DGraph Linux Restore:

    @Obsolesce said in Free Veeam for DGraph Linux Restore:

    The free Veeam you are using in your Windows VMs will not back up VMs via the host... meaning you cannot install the free Veeam edition on your Hyper-V host and expect it to back up your VMs.

    Actually it absolutely does do this. You are limited to ad-hoc VeeamZIP creation, but it works perfectly.

    Perfectly but not with a database like this. Takes backups as well as the agent. Which is not good.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Free Veeam for DGraph Linux Restore:

    @JaredBusch said in [Free Veeam for DGraph Linux

    Shit is not, ever, as black and white and Scott tries to make it.

    Actually it is black and white. You are pretending it isnt to push your darling product that you always push without looking into what his issue is or understanding how the LVM layer issue is identical between solutions.

    Actually, no. You have no idea if this is true. Veeam absolutely can (and should when configured right) use the native guest tools. But it doe snot require it. Making a snapshot form the host has no requirement that the guest OS even do anything.

    I also was not pushing hypervisor level as the solutoin. I was asking if it was tried or not.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Free Veeam for DGraph Linux Restore:

    @JaredBusch said in Free Veeam for DGraph Linux Restore:

    @Obsolesce said in Free Veeam for DGraph Linux Restore:

    The free Veeam you are using in your Windows VMs will not back up VMs via the host... meaning you cannot install the free Veeam edition on your Hyper-V host and expect it to back up your VMs.

    Actually it absolutely does do this. You are limited to ad-hoc VeeamZIP creation, but it works perfectly.

    Perfectly but not with a database like this. Takes backups as well as the agent. Which is not good.

    You have no idea if that is the case or not as it was never attempted to our knowledge.



  • @JaredBusch said in Free Veeam for DGraph Linux Restore:

    @Obsolesce said in Free Veeam for DGraph Linux Restore:

    The free Veeam you are using in your Windows VMs will not back up VMs via the host... meaning you cannot install the free Veeam edition on your Hyper-V host and expect it to back up your VMs.

    Actually it absolutely does do this. You are limited to ad-hoc VeeamZIP creation, but it works perfectly.

    Yeah you're right, I'm not disagreeing, but I wouldn't use that in a production environment. I don't consider that usable outside of PC or lab use.



  • @Obsolesce said in Free Veeam for DGraph Linux Restore:

    @JaredBusch said in Free Veeam for DGraph Linux Restore:

    @Obsolesce said in Free Veeam for DGraph Linux Restore:

    The free Veeam you are using in your Windows VMs will not back up VMs via the host... meaning you cannot install the free Veeam edition on your Hyper-V host and expect it to back up your VMs.

    Actually it absolutely does do this. You are limited to ad-hoc VeeamZIP creation, but it works perfectly.

    Yeah you're right, I'm not disagreeing, but I wouldn't use that in a production environment. I don't consider that usable outside of PC or lab use.

    Neither do I. But a lot of others do, and it is possible.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Free Veeam for DGraph Linux Restore:

    @Obsolesce said in Free Veeam for DGraph Linux Restore:

    @scottalanmiller said in Free Veeam for DGraph Linux Restore:

    @Obsolesce you already know from this thread that that doesnt solve the problem. You are just repeating the same issue that he was trying to resolve.

    VSS causes this issue the same as any other LVM.

    Read the thread. Weve beaten this to death. VSS isnt magic.

    I will have to read more. I posted after only really reading the OP.

    His DB doesnt quiesce and he cant find processes to stop manually. So anything using an LVM whether a Linux agent or Hyper-V's LVM called VSS will be expected to corrupt sometimes. Even when not clustered. Becayse it is a DB, not a storage quiescence problem.

    Okay, so it's a DB. I did a quick Google search after reading your comment here. I also searched their website for backup info, nothing. I'm still going to assume there's some way via the DGraph CLI to back up or dump the DB. Something like that can be done while it's running, so no down time, via CRON, before the Host-level backup.

    If the thing is just fuxored, there's also the option of using Hyper-V replication to replicate the CentOS VM to another simple host to do some testing, or either to back that up instead.

    Try that, if you can, replicate the VM to something else, then spin it up off the network to see if it starts up and test.

    Question, if you back up the DGraph database, then after a full VM restore, if you restore the backed up database, will it start then?

    I can't read every post atm, so excuse my ignorance if some of this was answered.



  • @Obsolesce said in Free Veeam for DGraph Linux Restore:

    @JaredBusch said in Free Veeam for DGraph Linux Restore:

    @Obsolesce said in Free Veeam for DGraph Linux Restore:

    The free Veeam you are using in your Windows VMs will not back up VMs via the host... meaning you cannot install the free Veeam edition on your Hyper-V host and expect it to back up your VMs.

    Actually it absolutely does do this. You are limited to ad-hoc VeeamZIP creation, but it works perfectly.

    Yeah you're right, I'm not disagreeing, but I wouldn't use that in a production environment. I don't consider that usable outside of PC or lab use.

    I wouldnt go that far. Just very... crufty? Cheap? Good for places where labour is cheap but software is expensive.



  • @JaredBusch said in Free Veeam for DGraph Linux Restore:

    @scottalanmiller said in Free Veeam for DGraph Linux Restore:

    @JaredBusch said in [Free Veeam for DGraph Linux

    Shit is not, ever, as black and white and Scott tries to make it.

    Actually it is black and white. You are pretending it isnt to push your darling product that you always push without looking into what his issue is or understanding how the LVM layer issue is identical between solutions.

    Actually, no. You have no idea if this is true. Veeam absolutely can (and should when configured right) use the native guest tools. But it doe snot require it. Making a snapshot form the host has no requirement that the guest OS even do anything.

    I also was not pushing hypervisor level as the solutoin. I was asking if it was tried or not.

    There is no native guest tool to use. I do know this. Making a reliable snap absolutely requires the guest to do something. For things like SQL Server this is automated and made to seem like magic. For things like MongoDB, it just doesnt work.

    A snap of corrupt data is still bad data even when the snap is good.



  • @Obsolesce said in Free Veeam for DGraph Linux Restore:

    @scottalanmiller said in Free Veeam for DGraph Linux Restore:

    @Obsolesce said in Free Veeam for DGraph Linux Restore:

    @scottalanmiller said in Free Veeam for DGraph Linux Restore:

    @Obsolesce you already know from this thread that that doesnt solve the problem. You are just repeating the same issue that he was trying to resolve.

    VSS causes this issue the same as any other LVM.

    Read the thread. Weve beaten this to death. VSS isnt magic.

    I will have to read more. I posted after only really reading the OP.

    His DB doesnt quiesce and he cant find processes to stop manually. So anything using an LVM whether a Linux agent or Hyper-V's LVM called VSS will be expected to corrupt sometimes. Even when not clustered. Becayse it is a DB, not a storage quiescence problem.

    Okay, so it's a DB. I did a quick Google search after reading your comment here. I also searched their website for backup info, nothing. I'm still going to assume there's some way via the DGraph CLI to back up or dump the DB. Something like that can be done while it's running, so no down time, via CRON, before the Host-level backup.

    If the thing is just fuxored, there's also the option of using Hyper-V replication to replicate the CentOS VM to another simple host to do some testing, or either to back that up instead.

    Try that, if you can, replicate the VM to something else, then spin it up off the network to see if it starts up and test.

    Question, if you back up the DGraph database, then after a full VM restore, if you restore the backed up database, will it start then?

    I can't read every post atm, so excuse my ignorance if some of this was answered.

    Yes. We covered that solution... if you backup via the native tool locally THEN any backup tool will work - but restores require an extra step.

    That was our "silly but works" option.



  • So, circling back. How is the backup project going?