Network problems
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@wrcombs said in Network problems:
Had a site call in last night, Had a router go down, was wondering if we could just take the router out of the equation and put the modem straight to the firewall,
Firewall and Router are the same thing. All firewalls are routers, all routers are firewalls. Technically the terms mean different things. But in the real world, since the early 1990s, no one has made one that isn't the other. For all practical applications the terms are synonymous and interchangeable.
So the real question is, why would you have both when it is just two of the same thing?
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@scottalanmiller said in Network problems:
@wrcombs said in Network problems:
Had a site call in last night, Had a router go down, was wondering if we could just take the router out of the equation and put the modem straight to the firewall,
Firewall and Router are the same thing. All firewalls are routers, all routers are firewalls. Technically the terms mean different things. But in the real world, since the early 1990s, no one has made one that isn't the other. For all practical applications the terms are synonymous and interchangeable.
So the real question is, why would you have both when it is just two of the same thing?
Great question..
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@wrcombs said in Network problems:
Im thinking if Anything is set to static it will have to be the modem, and I dont have admin rights over his modem.
A modem is a misnomer for a bridge. Bridges (and modems when they existed) can't have IP addresses as they are layer 2 devices, and layer 3 is the first layer with IP addresses.
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@wrcombs said in Network problems:
We tried hooking the modem up to the exact same port the router was using, restarted the modem, firewall and the NIC.
This won't work because you needed the inside router set to do one thing and the outside one set to do something else. When you removed the outside router, you needed to reconfigure the inside router to be the same as the outside before. It would not be expected to work with the configuration that was working previously.
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@scottalanmiller said in Network problems:
@wrcombs said in Network problems:
We tried hooking the modem up to the exact same port the router was using, restarted the modem, firewall and the NIC.
This won't work because you needed the inside router set to do one thing and the outside one set to do something else. When you removed the outside router, you needed to reconfigure the inside router to be the same as the outside before. It would not be expected to work with the configuration that was working previously.
So the only fix is to reconfigure the firewall/router ?
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@wrcombs said in Network problems:
Because the Site tech guy decided to add one, as extra protection.
Opposite. No extra protection. Just extra cost and more things to fail, as you can see. There's no value here. The only benefits are to the network team to ensure their jobs based on unnecessary complexity. The business doesn't get any protection here, they just lose money.
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@wrcombs said in Network problems:
@scottalanmiller said in Network problems:
@wrcombs said in Network problems:
We tried hooking the modem up to the exact same port the router was using, restarted the modem, firewall and the NIC.
This won't work because you needed the inside router set to do one thing and the outside one set to do something else. When you removed the outside router, you needed to reconfigure the inside router to be the same as the outside before. It would not be expected to work with the configuration that was working previously.
So the only fix is to reconfigure the firewall/router ?
Correct.
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@scottalanmiller said in Network problems:
@wrcombs said in Network problems:
We tried hooking the modem up to the exact same port the router was using, restarted the modem, firewall and the NIC.
This won't work because you needed the inside router set to do one thing and the outside one set to do something else. When you removed the outside router, you needed to reconfigure the inside router to be the same as the outside before. It would not be expected to work with the configuration that was working previously.
In his case, the inside router (SonicWall) was set to DHCP, so it could pull an IP from Cox via the cable modem and should allow the SonicWall to get to the internet. Of course their remote monitoring software won't work because the IP of the SW changed.
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@scottalanmiller said in Network problems:
@wrcombs said in Network problems:
Because the Site tech guy decided to add one, as extra protection.
Opposite. No extra protection. Just extra cost and more things to fail, as you can see. There's no value here. The only benefits are to the network team to ensure their jobs based on unnecessary complexity. The business doesn't get any protection here, they just lose money.
He didnt spend any money on the router except when he bought it for his own home. He brought it in and put it in on his on accord.
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@wrcombs said in Network problems:
@scottalanmiller said in Network problems:
@wrcombs said in Network problems:
Because the Site tech guy decided to add one, as extra protection.
Opposite. No extra protection. Just extra cost and more things to fail, as you can see. There's no value here. The only benefits are to the network team to ensure their jobs based on unnecessary complexity. The business doesn't get any protection here, they just lose money.
He didnt spend any money on the router except when he bought it for his own home. He brought it in and put it in on his on accord.
who is 'he'?
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@dashrender said in Network problems:
@wrcombs said in Network problems:
@scottalanmiller said in Network problems:
@wrcombs said in Network problems:
Because the Site tech guy decided to add one, as extra protection.
Opposite. No extra protection. Just extra cost and more things to fail, as you can see. There's no value here. The only benefits are to the network team to ensure their jobs based on unnecessary complexity. The business doesn't get any protection here, they just lose money.
He didnt spend any money on the router except when he bought it for his own home. He brought it in and put it in on his on accord.
who is 'he'?
on site tech guy
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@wrcombs said in Network problems:
@dashrender said in Network problems:
@wrcombs said in Network problems:
@scottalanmiller said in Network problems:
@wrcombs said in Network problems:
Because the Site tech guy decided to add one, as extra protection.
Opposite. No extra protection. Just extra cost and more things to fail, as you can see. There's no value here. The only benefits are to the network team to ensure their jobs based on unnecessary complexity. The business doesn't get any protection here, they just lose money.
He didnt spend any money on the router except when he bought it for his own home. He brought it in and put it in on his on accord.
who is 'he'?
on site tech guy
And who is that? Is it the owner of the restaurant? If not, I'm sure that tech charged the customer for the router they installed.
In this case, I'm not sure you'd get away from having two routers though - because you'll end up with a pissing match between your company - who supplies and supports the POS system and the IT guy who supports everything else.
Really a small switch between the cable modem your firewall, and the IT guy's firewall is what should have been installed. Then you each control your own segments with no worries about the other guy.
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@dashrender said in Network problems:
@wrcombs said in Network problems:
@dashrender said in Network problems:
@wrcombs said in Network problems:
@scottalanmiller said in Network problems:
@wrcombs said in Network problems:
Because the Site tech guy decided to add one, as extra protection.
Opposite. No extra protection. Just extra cost and more things to fail, as you can see. There's no value here. The only benefits are to the network team to ensure their jobs based on unnecessary complexity. The business doesn't get any protection here, they just lose money.
He didnt spend any money on the router except when he bought it for his own home. He brought it in and put it in on his on accord.
who is 'he'?
on site tech guy
And who is that? Is it the owner of the restaurant? If not, I'm sure that tech charged the customer for the router they installed.
In this case, I'm not sure you'd get away from having two routers though - because you'll end up with a pissing match between your company - who supplies and supports the POS system and the IT guy who supports everything else.
Really a small switch between the cable modem your firewall, and the IT guy's firewall is what should have been installed. Then you each control your own segments with no worries about the other guy.
From my understanding, He works next door in his convenience store and comes over ot help them out when they have problems when he can. He thought he was helping.
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@wrcombs said in Network problems:
@scottalanmiller said in Network problems:
@wrcombs said in Network problems:
Because the Site tech guy decided to add one, as extra protection.
Opposite. No extra protection. Just extra cost and more things to fail, as you can see. There's no value here. The only benefits are to the network team to ensure their jobs based on unnecessary complexity. The business doesn't get any protection here, they just lose money.
He didnt spend any money on the router except when he bought it for his own home. He brought it in and put it in on his on accord.
Is the site being down or IT spending time on this free? Unless you aren't paid, there is money wasted.
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@wrcombs said in Network problems:
@dashrender said in Network problems:
@wrcombs said in Network problems:
@scottalanmiller said in Network problems:
@wrcombs said in Network problems:
Because the Site tech guy decided to add one, as extra protection.
Opposite. No extra protection. Just extra cost and more things to fail, as you can see. There's no value here. The only benefits are to the network team to ensure their jobs based on unnecessary complexity. The business doesn't get any protection here, they just lose money.
He didnt spend any money on the router except when he bought it for his own home. He brought it in and put it in on his on accord.
who is 'he'?
on site tech guy
Random tech guy is bringing random personal equipment and crippling the environment? This sounds fishy.
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@wrcombs said in Network problems:
@dashrender said in Network problems:
@wrcombs said in Network problems:
@dashrender said in Network problems:
@wrcombs said in Network problems:
@scottalanmiller said in Network problems:
@wrcombs said in Network problems:
Because the Site tech guy decided to add one, as extra protection.
Opposite. No extra protection. Just extra cost and more things to fail, as you can see. There's no value here. The only benefits are to the network team to ensure their jobs based on unnecessary complexity. The business doesn't get any protection here, they just lose money.
He didnt spend any money on the router except when he bought it for his own home. He brought it in and put it in on his on accord.
who is 'he'?
on site tech guy
And who is that? Is it the owner of the restaurant? If not, I'm sure that tech charged the customer for the router they installed.
In this case, I'm not sure you'd get away from having two routers though - because you'll end up with a pissing match between your company - who supplies and supports the POS system and the IT guy who supports everything else.
Really a small switch between the cable modem your firewall, and the IT guy's firewall is what should have been installed. Then you each control your own segments with no worries about the other guy.
From my understanding, He works next door in his convenience store and comes over ot help them out when they have problems when he can. He thought he was helping.
"Helps out." Is no one in charge of the IT? Random people can just put random things on the network? For all we know, that device is a man in the middle and is siphoning off the company's data.
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@scottalanmiller said in Network problems:
@wrcombs said in Network problems:
@dashrender said in Network problems:
@wrcombs said in Network problems:
@dashrender said in Network problems:
@wrcombs said in Network problems:
@scottalanmiller said in Network problems:
@wrcombs said in Network problems:
Because the Site tech guy decided to add one, as extra protection.
Opposite. No extra protection. Just extra cost and more things to fail, as you can see. There's no value here. The only benefits are to the network team to ensure their jobs based on unnecessary complexity. The business doesn't get any protection here, they just lose money.
He didnt spend any money on the router except when he bought it for his own home. He brought it in and put it in on his on accord.
who is 'he'?
on site tech guy
And who is that? Is it the owner of the restaurant? If not, I'm sure that tech charged the customer for the router they installed.
In this case, I'm not sure you'd get away from having two routers though - because you'll end up with a pissing match between your company - who supplies and supports the POS system and the IT guy who supports everything else.
Really a small switch between the cable modem your firewall, and the IT guy's firewall is what should have been installed. Then you each control your own segments with no worries about the other guy.
From my understanding, He works next door in his convenience store and comes over ot help them out when they have problems when he can. He thought he was helping.
"Helps out." Is no one in charge of the IT? Random people can just put random things on the network? For all we know, that device is a man in the middle and is siphoning off the company's data.
LOL - this is super common. Small business, the owner just calls his buddies to do support.
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@dashrender said in Network problems:
@scottalanmiller said in Network problems:
@wrcombs said in Network problems:
@dashrender said in Network problems:
@wrcombs said in Network problems:
@dashrender said in Network problems:
@wrcombs said in Network problems:
@scottalanmiller said in Network problems:
@wrcombs said in Network problems:
Because the Site tech guy decided to add one, as extra protection.
Opposite. No extra protection. Just extra cost and more things to fail, as you can see. There's no value here. The only benefits are to the network team to ensure their jobs based on unnecessary complexity. The business doesn't get any protection here, they just lose money.
He didnt spend any money on the router except when he bought it for his own home. He brought it in and put it in on his on accord.
who is 'he'?
on site tech guy
And who is that? Is it the owner of the restaurant? If not, I'm sure that tech charged the customer for the router they installed.
In this case, I'm not sure you'd get away from having two routers though - because you'll end up with a pissing match between your company - who supplies and supports the POS system and the IT guy who supports everything else.
Really a small switch between the cable modem your firewall, and the IT guy's firewall is what should have been installed. Then you each control your own segments with no worries about the other guy.
From my understanding, He works next door in his convenience store and comes over ot help them out when they have problems when he can. He thought he was helping.
"Helps out." Is no one in charge of the IT? Random people can just put random things on the network? For all we know, that device is a man in the middle and is siphoning off the company's data.
LOL - this is super common. Small business, the owner just calls his buddies to do support.
This is the question I had... is there some central IT that these guys are supposed to use (there is PCI compliance regulations here) or is there not? I'm confused as to what role @WrCombs company plays here. Why are they involved in fixing this if they aren't the IT firm?
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@scottalanmiller said in Network problems:
@dashrender said in Network problems:
@scottalanmiller said in Network problems:
@wrcombs said in Network problems:
@dashrender said in Network problems:
@wrcombs said in Network problems:
@dashrender said in Network problems:
@wrcombs said in Network problems:
@scottalanmiller said in Network problems:
@wrcombs said in Network problems:
Because the Site tech guy decided to add one, as extra protection.
Opposite. No extra protection. Just extra cost and more things to fail, as you can see. There's no value here. The only benefits are to the network team to ensure their jobs based on unnecessary complexity. The business doesn't get any protection here, they just lose money.
He didnt spend any money on the router except when he bought it for his own home. He brought it in and put it in on his on accord.
who is 'he'?
on site tech guy
And who is that? Is it the owner of the restaurant? If not, I'm sure that tech charged the customer for the router they installed.
In this case, I'm not sure you'd get away from having two routers though - because you'll end up with a pissing match between your company - who supplies and supports the POS system and the IT guy who supports everything else.
Really a small switch between the cable modem your firewall, and the IT guy's firewall is what should have been installed. Then you each control your own segments with no worries about the other guy.
From my understanding, He works next door in his convenience store and comes over ot help them out when they have problems when he can. He thought he was helping.
"Helps out." Is no one in charge of the IT? Random people can just put random things on the network? For all we know, that device is a man in the middle and is siphoning off the company's data.
LOL - this is super common. Small business, the owner just calls his buddies to do support.
This is the question I had... is there some central IT that these guys are supposed to use (there is PCI compliance regulations here) or is there not? I'm confused as to what role @WrCombs company plays here. Why are they involved in fixing this if they aren't the IT firm?
Because we provide the Firewall and PC (and POS) to this other company.
The only "IT" this company has is their on site tech guy, and us. Through which we provide POS support and nothing else. the only reason I was called was because the ISP said it was our fireall causing his problem. -
@wrcombs said in Network problems:
@scottalanmiller said in Network problems:
@dashrender said in Network problems:
@scottalanmiller said in Network problems:
@wrcombs said in Network problems:
@dashrender said in Network problems:
@wrcombs said in Network problems:
@dashrender said in Network problems:
@wrcombs said in Network problems:
@scottalanmiller said in Network problems:
@wrcombs said in Network problems:
Because the Site tech guy decided to add one, as extra protection.
Opposite. No extra protection. Just extra cost and more things to fail, as you can see. There's no value here. The only benefits are to the network team to ensure their jobs based on unnecessary complexity. The business doesn't get any protection here, they just lose money.
He didnt spend any money on the router except when he bought it for his own home. He brought it in and put it in on his on accord.
who is 'he'?
on site tech guy
And who is that? Is it the owner of the restaurant? If not, I'm sure that tech charged the customer for the router they installed.
In this case, I'm not sure you'd get away from having two routers though - because you'll end up with a pissing match between your company - who supplies and supports the POS system and the IT guy who supports everything else.
Really a small switch between the cable modem your firewall, and the IT guy's firewall is what should have been installed. Then you each control your own segments with no worries about the other guy.
From my understanding, He works next door in his convenience store and comes over ot help them out when they have problems when he can. He thought he was helping.
"Helps out." Is no one in charge of the IT? Random people can just put random things on the network? For all we know, that device is a man in the middle and is siphoning off the company's data.
LOL - this is super common. Small business, the owner just calls his buddies to do support.
This is the question I had... is there some central IT that these guys are supposed to use (there is PCI compliance regulations here) or is there not? I'm confused as to what role @WrCombs company plays here. Why are they involved in fixing this if they aren't the IT firm?
Because we provide the Firewall and PC (and POS) to this other company.
The only "IT" this company has is their on site tech guy, and us. Through which we provide POS support and nothing else. the only reason I was called was because the ISP said it was our fireall causing his problem.I see. And which one is "yours", the inside one or the outside one?
