Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!
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@scottalanmiller said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
That study has NOTHING to do with alcohol and health... literally, none whatsoever. It ONLY has to do with mortality risk.
While mortality is not the end all of health, I think most people agree that being alive is the largest single and most objective health factor that there is and could ever possibly be.
I guess that's up to the individual to decide, how he/she wants to feel their last 20-30 years of their life.
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@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
So let's get back on track... you always start out saying alcohol is healthy...
No, the track was you claiming that you had proof that alcohol was NOT healthy, ever. There is no such proof, none. That's totally false.
That there are studies that show that alcohol lowers mortality (the massive leader in health indicators) is unquestionable.
Bottom line... drinking alcohol has ever indicator of being healthy, and there are no studies to the contrary.
My point was disputing your original statement as being unfounded. You've used the very logic that undoes your original post to try to undo the opposite.
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@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@scottalanmiller said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
That study has NOTHING to do with alcohol and health... literally, none whatsoever. It ONLY has to do with mortality risk.
While mortality is not the end all of health, I think most people agree that being alive is the largest single and most objective health factor that there is and could ever possibly be.
I guess that's up to the individual to decide, how he/she wants to feel their last 20-30 years of their life.
Right, I'd like my last 30 years to be old years not young ones. Being 80 and sickly is way better than being 80 and dead.
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@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
The only real study done, has shown that moderate to heavy drinking is shown to have a positive effect on how long you live, but has NOTHING to do with your health.
You TRULY BELIEVE that BEING ALIVE has nothing to do with health?
You actually think that you can be dead AND healthy at the same time?
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Okay, let's change the topic. Since being alive isn't considered to reflect on being healthy, we have just defined "healthy" as not important.
So alcohol isn't healthy... great! Apparently healthy is a bad thing. I'd way rather be alive if that's the alternative to being healthy.
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@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
The only real study done, has shown that moderate to heavy drinking is shown to have a positive effect on how long you live, but has NOTHING to do with your health.
What? How is being alive unrelated to health?
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@scottalanmiller said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
Bottom line... drinking alcohol has ever indicator of being healthy, and there are no studies to the contrary.
Every indicator? No, every indicator of being healthy means that you in fact have every good-health indicator... such as correct blood pressure, weight, blood sugar levels, etc etc...
That study does nothing of the sort.
The only indicator that I've ever seen is from a single study that shows moderate drinkers have ~50% less mortality risk for those between 55-65 years old in that study.
That's all that the study shows, nothing more and nothing less. That article you shown makes a ton of other claims.
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@scottalanmiller said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@irj said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
The test may have required a certain alcohol consumption on a certain interval for a set number of days, but in my experience that doesn't represent the real world. I would say a good number of casual drinkers drink to get drunk at least occassionally. They dont exactly fit the drink a day category nor do they fit into the binge drinking category.
Only in the US. Outside of the US, steady moderate alcohol consumption is extremely normal.
Why is that, you suppose?
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Meaning that moderate drinkers simply tend to live longer, not healthier.
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Let's try this a different way.... what does "being healthy" mean to you, @Tim_G ? Like, if I have liver disease but it causes me to live longer, rather than shorter, being unhealthy sounds like a positive, rather than a negative. If I have liver disease and it kills me early, that sucks.
What's the end goal of "being healthy"? Seems like, if life isn't related to it, that health is of dubious value. I'm not even sure how to define it without mortality as a guide. I understand things like dementia, pain, lack of mobility would all be negative health situations - but those are all things that alcohol HELPS, not hurts.
Other things, like high blood pressure, of inconsequential UNLESS they kill you. I don't care how many heart attacks I have, how high my blood pressure is, etc. if they don't kill me. It's dying from those things that makes them bad.
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@scottalanmiller said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
Let's try this a different way.... what does "being healthy" mean to you, @Tim_G ?
Not living off of pills, not in pain, not relying on the help of others for daily tasks, ability to enjoy my time, happiness, ability to do things in a good way, etc.
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@dashrender said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@scottalanmiller said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@irj said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
The test may have required a certain alcohol consumption on a certain interval for a set number of days, but in my experience that doesn't represent the real world. I would say a good number of casual drinkers drink to get drunk at least occassionally. They dont exactly fit the drink a day category nor do they fit into the binge drinking category.
Only in the US. Outside of the US, steady moderate alcohol consumption is extremely normal.
Why is that, you suppose?
Because they lack the "puritanical" and uniquely American prejudice against alcohol. Only the US had prohibition (and of course Saudia Arabia and we see what that's done!) - it's a unique thing created by the American religious institutions of the late 1800s. The rest of the world was less insular and was unable to develop that culture of turning against human traditions. Also, American took hundreds of years to develop their own wine and early American beer was shit (they've tested this) so quality was way lower or costs were way higher long ago. So there was a period when interest was less "have it with food" and more "drink it fast to get drunk."
America has even codified this into law post-prohibition with late life drinking ages which is known to promote binge drinking as Americans don't learn to drink responsibly growing up, but as mid-way adults go from "alcohol is prohibited" to "zero oversight and no healthy habits or traditions." America has been engineered for a century for bad alcohol and drug habits.
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@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
Meaning that moderate drinkers simply tend to live longer, not healthier.
I think I get what you're saying - but as Scott said - being healthy versus being dead - which do you prefer?
Would you rather be 100 and live Keith Richards livestyle of drugs and alcohol, or the media version of healthy and dead at 70?
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@reid-cooper said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
The only real study done, has shown that moderate to heavy drinking is shown to have a positive effect on how long you live, but has NOTHING to do with your health.
What? How is being alive unrelated to health?
There are lots of people who are alive, that are SUPER unhealthy, plain miserable, in pain, etc...
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@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@scottalanmiller said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
Let's try this a different way.... what does "being healthy" mean to you, @Tim_G ?
Not living off of pills, not relying on the help of others for daily tasks, ability to enjoy my time, happiness, ability to do things in a good way, etc.
Okay, so I see why being dead would fix most of those problems.
But alcohol adds to happiness, pills I don't care about, being alive is the best way to do things in any way....
Have you seen ANY study suggest that alcohol has anything but positive impacts on THOSE factors? I've not, not even the ones you linked that weren't real studies. Everyone saying alcohol is "unhealthy" points to how it "kills you", which is clearly untrue and baseless.
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@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@reid-cooper said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
The only real study done, has shown that moderate to heavy drinking is shown to have a positive effect on how long you live, but has NOTHING to do with your health.
What? How is being alive unrelated to health?
There are lots of people who are alive, that are SUPER unhealthy, plain miserable, in pain, etc...
Right, and those people are STILL healthier than the dead!
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@scottalanmiller said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
Other things, like high blood pressure, of inconsequential UNLESS they kill you. I don't care how many heart attacks I have, how high my blood pressure is, etc. if they don't kill me. It's dying from those things that makes them bad.
Okay, so when you have those issues and are in pain,living off of pills, and miserable for 30 more years... I don't want to hear it.
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@scottalanmiller said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@reid-cooper said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
The only real study done, has shown that moderate to heavy drinking is shown to have a positive effect on how long you live, but has NOTHING to do with your health.
What? How is being alive unrelated to health?
There are lots of people who are alive, that are SUPER unhealthy, plain miserable, in pain, etc...
Right, and those people are STILL healthier than the dead!
Now you're just being silly.
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This is the Windows vs Linux problem....
People using Linux: Doing this task on Linux is SO hard, Linux sucks. I wish that I was on Windows.
People using Windows: This task is impossible, it's not even something that can be done.Which is easier to use, Linux or Windows? Impossible is just another way of saying "infinitely hard."
Dead is just "infinitely" unhealthy. ANY life is healthier than ANY death.
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@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@scottalanmiller said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@reid-cooper said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
The only real study done, has shown that moderate to heavy drinking is shown to have a positive effect on how long you live, but has NOTHING to do with your health.
What? How is being alive unrelated to health?
There are lots of people who are alive, that are SUPER unhealthy, plain miserable, in pain, etc...
Right, and those people are STILL healthier than the dead!
Now you're just being silly.
No, I assure you, I am not. Silly is claiming that death is healthier than life. Which is the basis for your point.
