Student Loan Forgiveness Rant
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My wife went to a private college in the mid 90's, it's was $30K a semester, but she had a yearly grant of $30K, so her walk out the door costs (not counting books) was $120K four years later.
Had she gone to public university at the time, it would have been around half that, possible less.
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@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@dashrender said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
His number of $140K includes interest (assuming he pays 100% interest over the life of the loan. So you if you are using this as the reference, it's more accurate to use the $70K number.
Sort of, but interest is part of the overall system and cost. Because we are talking about people pre-career and pre-adult, the interest is part of their cost, not an option.
Sure, but then @Jimmy9008 needs to include the interest costs on his education as well, assuming he has them, currently we don't know.
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@dashrender said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@dashrender said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
His number of $140K includes interest (assuming he pays 100% interest over the life of the loan. So you if you are using this as the reference, it's more accurate to use the $70K number.
Sort of, but interest is part of the overall system and cost. Because we are talking about people pre-career and pre-adult, the interest is part of their cost, not an option.
Sure, but then @Jimmy9008 needs to include the interest costs on his education as well, assuming he has them, currently we don't know.
Oh sure, needs to be apples to apples, of course.
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@dashrender said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@jimmy9008 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@jimmy9008 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@penguinwrangler said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@DustinB3403 I calculated my savings wrong. Yes, I will have 70,000 to 75,000 forgiven. I also don't have to pay interest on that so my savings are more in the $140,000 area. Just for the record, yes I am poking the bear, and having a lot of fun while I do it.
$140,000, wow! I assumed UK education was a lot. I feel lucky now my total is £18,000. ($24,000)... Of course, get it paid by somebody else if you can. Good luck
US is, AFAIK, the worst in the world. Very high cost, very low quality. Not the lowest quality, but the highest cost.
It sounds like a crazy high amount. Current courses here, at least last time I looked, had gone up to £9k per year. So £28k for the 3 year course. Plus, if you take accommodation too, its likely double. So I figure about £56k, now. That's still nowhere close to what the US is paying...
Is $140,000 at least from a top higher level institute? Or is that just a standard cost for normal college?
Where are you pulling the $140K number from? was it from here
PenguinWrangler about an hour ago
@DustinB3403 I calculated my savings wrong. Yes, I will have 70,000 to 75,000 forgiven. I also don't have to pay interest on that so my savings are more in the $140,000 area. Just for the record, yes I am poking the bear, and having a lot of fun while I do it.His number of $140K includes interest (assuming he pays 100% interest over the life of the loan. So you if you are using this as the reference, it's more accurate to use the $70K number.
I was using the 140k total as that includes interest. My £18k doesn't include interest, but in the UK for pre 2012 course its supposed to be small. Not sure the exact amount but think around 1.25% APR.
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@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@dashrender said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@dashrender said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
His number of $140K includes interest (assuming he pays 100% interest over the life of the loan. So you if you are using this as the reference, it's more accurate to use the $70K number.
Sort of, but interest is part of the overall system and cost. Because we are talking about people pre-career and pre-adult, the interest is part of their cost, not an option.
Sure, but then @Jimmy9008 needs to include the interest costs on his education as well, assuming he has them, currently we don't know.
Oh sure, needs to be apples to apples, of course.
Indeed. I'm pretty sure its 1.25% APR. So, I believe £18k left unpaid in any way for the year would gain £225. (I think).
I am sure though that currently students in the UK have it far worse than I. The prices have rocketed upwards.
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@jimmy9008 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@dashrender said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@dashrender said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
His number of $140K includes interest (assuming he pays 100% interest over the life of the loan. So you if you are using this as the reference, it's more accurate to use the $70K number.
Sort of, but interest is part of the overall system and cost. Because we are talking about people pre-career and pre-adult, the interest is part of their cost, not an option.
Sure, but then @Jimmy9008 needs to include the interest costs on his education as well, assuming he has them, currently we don't know.
Oh sure, needs to be apples to apples, of course.
Indeed. I'm pretty sure its 1.25% APR. So, I believe £18k left unpaid in any way for the year would gain £225. (I think).
I am sure though that currently students in the UK have it far worse than I. The prices have rocketed upwards.
I have 85,315 in total loans. The interest rate is 4.875%.
30 year payment plan:
Monthly Payment: 451.49 Total Principal Paid: $85,315 Total Interest Paid: $77,222.84 Total: 162,537.84
20 year payment plan:
Monthly Payment: 557.17 Total Principal Paid: $85,315 Total Interest Paid: $48,405.01 Total: 133,720.01
10 year Payment plan:
Monthly Payment: 899.69 Total Principal Paid: $85,315 Total Interest Paid: $22,648.31 Total: 107,963.31 -
@penguinwrangler said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@jimmy9008 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@dashrender said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@dashrender said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
His number of $140K includes interest (assuming he pays 100% interest over the life of the loan. So you if you are using this as the reference, it's more accurate to use the $70K number.
Sort of, but interest is part of the overall system and cost. Because we are talking about people pre-career and pre-adult, the interest is part of their cost, not an option.
Sure, but then @Jimmy9008 needs to include the interest costs on his education as well, assuming he has them, currently we don't know.
Oh sure, needs to be apples to apples, of course.
Indeed. I'm pretty sure its 1.25% APR. So, I believe £18k left unpaid in any way for the year would gain £225. (I think).
I am sure though that currently students in the UK have it far worse than I. The prices have rocketed upwards.
I have 85,315 in total loans. The interest rate is 4.875%.
30 year payment plan:
Monthly Payment: 451.49 Total Principal Paid: $85,315 Total Interest Paid: $77,222.84 Total: 162,537.84
20 year payment plan:
Monthly Payment: 557.17 Total Principal Paid: $85,315 Total Interest Paid: $48,405.01 Total: 133,720.01
10 year Payment plan:
Monthly Payment: 899.69 Total Principal Paid: $85,315 Total Interest Paid: $22,648.31 Total: 107,963.31Ouch.
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@penguinwrangler said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@jimmy9008 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@dashrender said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@dashrender said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
His number of $140K includes interest (assuming he pays 100% interest over the life of the loan. So you if you are using this as the reference, it's more accurate to use the $70K number.
Sort of, but interest is part of the overall system and cost. Because we are talking about people pre-career and pre-adult, the interest is part of their cost, not an option.
Sure, but then @Jimmy9008 needs to include the interest costs on his education as well, assuming he has them, currently we don't know.
Oh sure, needs to be apples to apples, of course.
Indeed. I'm pretty sure its 1.25% APR. So, I believe £18k left unpaid in any way for the year would gain £225. (I think).
I am sure though that currently students in the UK have it far worse than I. The prices have rocketed upwards.
I have 85,315 in total loans. The interest rate is 4.875%.
30 year payment plan:
Monthly Payment: 451.49 Total Principal Paid: $85,315 Total Interest Paid: $77,222.84 Total: 162,537.84
20 year payment plan:
Monthly Payment: 557.17 Total Principal Paid: $85,315 Total Interest Paid: $48,405.01 Total: 133,720.01
10 year Payment plan:
Monthly Payment: 899.69 Total Principal Paid: $85,315 Total Interest Paid: $22,648.31 Total: 107,963.31That's a year or two at a pretty good salary just lost to loans
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@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@penguinwrangler said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@jimmy9008 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@dashrender said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@dashrender said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
His number of $140K includes interest (assuming he pays 100% interest over the life of the loan. So you if you are using this as the reference, it's more accurate to use the $70K number.
Sort of, but interest is part of the overall system and cost. Because we are talking about people pre-career and pre-adult, the interest is part of their cost, not an option.
Sure, but then @Jimmy9008 needs to include the interest costs on his education as well, assuming he has them, currently we don't know.
Oh sure, needs to be apples to apples, of course.
Indeed. I'm pretty sure its 1.25% APR. So, I believe £18k left unpaid in any way for the year would gain £225. (I think).
I am sure though that currently students in the UK have it far worse than I. The prices have rocketed upwards.
I have 85,315 in total loans. The interest rate is 4.875%.
30 year payment plan:
Monthly Payment: 451.49 Total Principal Paid: $85,315 Total Interest Paid: $77,222.84 Total: 162,537.84
20 year payment plan:
Monthly Payment: 557.17 Total Principal Paid: $85,315 Total Interest Paid: $48,405.01 Total: 133,720.01
10 year Payment plan:
Monthly Payment: 899.69 Total Principal Paid: $85,315 Total Interest Paid: $22,648.31 Total: 107,963.31That's a year or two at a pretty good salary just lost to loans
Not now that I get the forgiveness, that is why I couldn't pass the job up.
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@penguinwrangler said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@penguinwrangler said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@jimmy9008 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@dashrender said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@dashrender said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
His number of $140K includes interest (assuming he pays 100% interest over the life of the loan. So you if you are using this as the reference, it's more accurate to use the $70K number.
Sort of, but interest is part of the overall system and cost. Because we are talking about people pre-career and pre-adult, the interest is part of their cost, not an option.
Sure, but then @Jimmy9008 needs to include the interest costs on his education as well, assuming he has them, currently we don't know.
Oh sure, needs to be apples to apples, of course.
Indeed. I'm pretty sure its 1.25% APR. So, I believe £18k left unpaid in any way for the year would gain £225. (I think).
I am sure though that currently students in the UK have it far worse than I. The prices have rocketed upwards.
I have 85,315 in total loans. The interest rate is 4.875%.
30 year payment plan:
Monthly Payment: 451.49 Total Principal Paid: $85,315 Total Interest Paid: $77,222.84 Total: 162,537.84
20 year payment plan:
Monthly Payment: 557.17 Total Principal Paid: $85,315 Total Interest Paid: $48,405.01 Total: 133,720.01
10 year Payment plan:
Monthly Payment: 899.69 Total Principal Paid: $85,315 Total Interest Paid: $22,648.31 Total: 107,963.31That's a year or two at a pretty good salary just lost to loans
Not now that I get the forgiveness, that is why I couldn't pass the job up.
How long do you have to stay to earn the foregiveness in full?
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@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@penguinwrangler said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@penguinwrangler said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@jimmy9008 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@dashrender said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@dashrender said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
His number of $140K includes interest (assuming he pays 100% interest over the life of the loan. So you if you are using this as the reference, it's more accurate to use the $70K number.
Sort of, but interest is part of the overall system and cost. Because we are talking about people pre-career and pre-adult, the interest is part of their cost, not an option.
Sure, but then @Jimmy9008 needs to include the interest costs on his education as well, assuming he has them, currently we don't know.
Oh sure, needs to be apples to apples, of course.
Indeed. I'm pretty sure its 1.25% APR. So, I believe £18k left unpaid in any way for the year would gain £225. (I think).
I am sure though that currently students in the UK have it far worse than I. The prices have rocketed upwards.
I have 85,315 in total loans. The interest rate is 4.875%.
30 year payment plan:
Monthly Payment: 451.49 Total Principal Paid: $85,315 Total Interest Paid: $77,222.84 Total: 162,537.84
20 year payment plan:
Monthly Payment: 557.17 Total Principal Paid: $85,315 Total Interest Paid: $48,405.01 Total: 133,720.01
10 year Payment plan:
Monthly Payment: 899.69 Total Principal Paid: $85,315 Total Interest Paid: $22,648.31 Total: 107,963.31That's a year or two at a pretty good salary just lost to loans
Not now that I get the forgiveness, that is why I couldn't pass the job up.
How long do you have to stay to earn the foregiveness in full?
10 years but I am planning on retiring from the Federal Government, so that is 25 years. The retirement is really good as well.
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@penguinwrangler said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@penguinwrangler said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@penguinwrangler said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@jimmy9008 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@dashrender said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@dashrender said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
His number of $140K includes interest (assuming he pays 100% interest over the life of the loan. So you if you are using this as the reference, it's more accurate to use the $70K number.
Sort of, but interest is part of the overall system and cost. Because we are talking about people pre-career and pre-adult, the interest is part of their cost, not an option.
Sure, but then @Jimmy9008 needs to include the interest costs on his education as well, assuming he has them, currently we don't know.
Oh sure, needs to be apples to apples, of course.
Indeed. I'm pretty sure its 1.25% APR. So, I believe £18k left unpaid in any way for the year would gain £225. (I think).
I am sure though that currently students in the UK have it far worse than I. The prices have rocketed upwards.
I have 85,315 in total loans. The interest rate is 4.875%.
30 year payment plan:
Monthly Payment: 451.49 Total Principal Paid: $85,315 Total Interest Paid: $77,222.84 Total: 162,537.84
20 year payment plan:
Monthly Payment: 557.17 Total Principal Paid: $85,315 Total Interest Paid: $48,405.01 Total: 133,720.01
10 year Payment plan:
Monthly Payment: 899.69 Total Principal Paid: $85,315 Total Interest Paid: $22,648.31 Total: 107,963.31That's a year or two at a pretty good salary just lost to loans
Not now that I get the forgiveness, that is why I couldn't pass the job up.
How long do you have to stay to earn the foregiveness in full?
10 years but I am planning on retiring from the Federal Government, so that is 25 years. The retirement is really good as well.
So it could be calculated to be a $10,800 annual bonus in that regard.
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@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@penguinwrangler said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@penguinwrangler said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@penguinwrangler said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@jimmy9008 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@dashrender said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@dashrender said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
His number of $140K includes interest (assuming he pays 100% interest over the life of the loan. So you if you are using this as the reference, it's more accurate to use the $70K number.
Sort of, but interest is part of the overall system and cost. Because we are talking about people pre-career and pre-adult, the interest is part of their cost, not an option.
Sure, but then @Jimmy9008 needs to include the interest costs on his education as well, assuming he has them, currently we don't know.
Oh sure, needs to be apples to apples, of course.
Indeed. I'm pretty sure its 1.25% APR. So, I believe £18k left unpaid in any way for the year would gain £225. (I think).
I am sure though that currently students in the UK have it far worse than I. The prices have rocketed upwards.
I have 85,315 in total loans. The interest rate is 4.875%.
30 year payment plan:
Monthly Payment: 451.49 Total Principal Paid: $85,315 Total Interest Paid: $77,222.84 Total: 162,537.84
20 year payment plan:
Monthly Payment: 557.17 Total Principal Paid: $85,315 Total Interest Paid: $48,405.01 Total: 133,720.01
10 year Payment plan:
Monthly Payment: 899.69 Total Principal Paid: $85,315 Total Interest Paid: $22,648.31 Total: 107,963.31That's a year or two at a pretty good salary just lost to loans
Not now that I get the forgiveness, that is why I couldn't pass the job up.
How long do you have to stay to earn the foregiveness in full?
10 years but I am planning on retiring from the Federal Government, so that is 25 years. The retirement is really good as well.
So it could be calculated to be a $10,800 annual bonus in that regard.
Should it be called a bonus though if you are taking, say, $10,800 less than peers outside of the same company due to this 'benefit'?
What happens after 10 years and the loan is written off? Do you then get $10,800 added on to yearly normal salary as the benefit is then, erm, gone?
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@jimmy9008 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@penguinwrangler said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@penguinwrangler said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@penguinwrangler said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@jimmy9008 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@dashrender said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@dashrender said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
His number of $140K includes interest (assuming he pays 100% interest over the life of the loan. So you if you are using this as the reference, it's more accurate to use the $70K number.
Sort of, but interest is part of the overall system and cost. Because we are talking about people pre-career and pre-adult, the interest is part of their cost, not an option.
Sure, but then @Jimmy9008 needs to include the interest costs on his education as well, assuming he has them, currently we don't know.
Oh sure, needs to be apples to apples, of course.
Indeed. I'm pretty sure its 1.25% APR. So, I believe £18k left unpaid in any way for the year would gain £225. (I think).
I am sure though that currently students in the UK have it far worse than I. The prices have rocketed upwards.
I have 85,315 in total loans. The interest rate is 4.875%.
30 year payment plan:
Monthly Payment: 451.49 Total Principal Paid: $85,315 Total Interest Paid: $77,222.84 Total: 162,537.84
20 year payment plan:
Monthly Payment: 557.17 Total Principal Paid: $85,315 Total Interest Paid: $48,405.01 Total: 133,720.01
10 year Payment plan:
Monthly Payment: 899.69 Total Principal Paid: $85,315 Total Interest Paid: $22,648.31 Total: 107,963.31That's a year or two at a pretty good salary just lost to loans
Not now that I get the forgiveness, that is why I couldn't pass the job up.
How long do you have to stay to earn the foregiveness in full?
10 years but I am planning on retiring from the Federal Government, so that is 25 years. The retirement is really good as well.
So it could be calculated to be a $10,800 annual bonus in that regard.
Should it be called a bonus though if you are taking, say, $10,800 less than peers outside of the same company due to this 'benefit'?
What happens after 10 years and the loan is written off? Do you then get $10,800 added on to yearly normal salary as the benefit is then, erm, gone?
No, but then he is free to quit.
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@jimmy9008 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
Should it be called a bonus though if you are taking, say, $10,800 less than peers outside of the same company due to this 'benefit'?
Yes, if it is more than the peers INSIDE the same company.
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@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@penguinwrangler said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@penguinwrangler said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@penguinwrangler said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@jimmy9008 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@dashrender said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@dashrender said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
His number of $140K includes interest (assuming he pays 100% interest over the life of the loan. So you if you are using this as the reference, it's more accurate to use the $70K number.
Sort of, but interest is part of the overall system and cost. Because we are talking about people pre-career and pre-adult, the interest is part of their cost, not an option.
Sure, but then @Jimmy9008 needs to include the interest costs on his education as well, assuming he has them, currently we don't know.
Oh sure, needs to be apples to apples, of course.
Indeed. I'm pretty sure its 1.25% APR. So, I believe £18k left unpaid in any way for the year would gain £225. (I think).
I am sure though that currently students in the UK have it far worse than I. The prices have rocketed upwards.
I have 85,315 in total loans. The interest rate is 4.875%.
30 year payment plan:
Monthly Payment: 451.49 Total Principal Paid: $85,315 Total Interest Paid: $77,222.84 Total: 162,537.84
20 year payment plan:
Monthly Payment: 557.17 Total Principal Paid: $85,315 Total Interest Paid: $48,405.01 Total: 133,720.01
10 year Payment plan:
Monthly Payment: 899.69 Total Principal Paid: $85,315 Total Interest Paid: $22,648.31 Total: 107,963.31That's a year or two at a pretty good salary just lost to loans
Not now that I get the forgiveness, that is why I couldn't pass the job up.
How long do you have to stay to earn the foregiveness in full?
10 years but I am planning on retiring from the Federal Government, so that is 25 years. The retirement is really good as well.
So it could be calculated to be a $10,800 annual bonus in that regard.
It depends, I have to do a IBR (Income based repayment plan) during the ten years. So right now with 4 children in the house that gets me to 81.00 a month as my lowest possible payment. This will fluctuate some over the years but not too much so if my payments average out to 100 a month that is 1200 a year X 10 years for 12,000 paid. I still have child support for 7 years so I would have to have done the 30 year plan just to make ends meet. So I would have paid 162,537.84, I will pay about 12,000 so 162,537.84 - 12,000 is 150537.84 divided over ten years is more like 15,000 annual bonus.
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@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@jimmy9008 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
Should it be called a bonus though if you are taking, say, $10,800 less than peers outside of the same company due to this 'benefit'?
Yes, if it is more than the peers INSIDE the same company.
True. Each to their own.
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Of course now the Department of Education (which I'm not sure what authority they would have here) is saying they are under no obligation to respect the federal loan forgiveness program. Hopefully that will be ironed out by the time you need it.
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@coliver said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
Of course now the Department of Education (which I'm not sure what authority they would have here) is saying they are under no obligation to respect the federal loan forgiveness program. Hopefully that will be ironed out by the time you need it.
In America, the government is under no obligation to anything.
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@coliver said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
Of course now the Department of Education (which I'm not sure what authority they would have here) is saying they are under no obligation to respect the federal loan forgiveness program. Hopefully that will be ironed out by the time you need it.
The likely plan for phasing out the program is not accepting new people into it. This (or a one-time cash payout) is typically how you end entitlement programs (like the Peanut quota's).
