So you want to build a Security Program? Part 1 - Vulnerability Scanning
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@dafyre said in So you want to build a Security Program? Part 1 - Vulnerability Scanning:
@IRJ said in So you want to build a Security Program? Part 1 - Vulnerability Scanning:
Another thing to note is that Credentialed scans are much more polite compared to non Credentialed scans. Non Credentialed scans are much more taxing on the box since everything is guessed slamming the box.
A non-credentialed scan would be more akin to a hacker attacking and trying to get in, I would think.
Have you tried throwing more CPU cores at OpenVAS instead of / in addition to RAM?
I ran it on 4GB RAM / 4 CPU Cores for ~30 Servers and got reasonable performance out of it.
How long did it take to complete on 30+ servers?
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@dafyre said in So you want to build a Security Program? Part 1 - Vulnerability Scanning:
@IRJ said in So you want to build a Security Program? Part 1 - Vulnerability Scanning:
Another thing to note is that Credentialed scans are much more polite compared to non Credentialed scans. Non Credentialed scans are much more taxing on the box since everything is guessed slamming the box.
A non-credentialed scan would be more akin to a hacker attacking and trying to get in, I would think.
Have you tried throwing more CPU cores at OpenVAS instead of / in addition to RAM?
I ran it on 4GB RAM / 4 CPU Cores for ~30 Servers and got reasonable performance out of it.
Yes I have, but part of my bias is total time of scans compared to other solutions. I bet a Nessus scanner with 1GB of ram on 2 cores would finish in less than half the time. So I am comparing efficiency here.
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@IRJ said in So you want to build a Security Program? Part 1 - Vulnerability Scanning:
@dafyre said in So you want to build a Security Program? Part 1 - Vulnerability Scanning:
@IRJ said in So you want to build a Security Program? Part 1 - Vulnerability Scanning:
Another thing to note is that Credentialed scans are much more polite compared to non Credentialed scans. Non Credentialed scans are much more taxing on the box since everything is guessed slamming the box.
A non-credentialed scan would be more akin to a hacker attacking and trying to get in, I would think.
Have you tried throwing more CPU cores at OpenVAS instead of / in addition to RAM?
I ran it on 4GB RAM / 4 CPU Cores for ~30 Servers and got reasonable performance out of it.
How long did it take to complete on 30+ servers?
I don't rightly remember an exact number, but I want to say an hour or three running the full, no-holds-barred scans. (I crashed a vulnerable server a time or two with it, ha ha!)
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@dafyre said in So you want to build a Security Program? Part 1 - Vulnerability Scanning:
@IRJ said in So you want to build a Security Program? Part 1 - Vulnerability Scanning:
Another thing to note is that Credentialed scans are much more polite compared to non Credentialed scans. Non Credentialed scans are much more taxing on the box since everything is guessed slamming the box.
A non-credentialed scan would be more akin to a hacker attacking and trying to get in, I would think.
Yes, but in addition to the vulnerability scans you are going to see special scans depending on what they find. If I find a wordpress site, you better believe I am kicking off wpscan to look for weaknesses. If I know it is a DB server, I am going to try some SQL and oracle scans. You get the point.
So don't forget to run those type of scans with information you can gather from a non-credentialed scan.
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@IRJ said in So you want to build a Security Program? Part 1 - Vulnerability Scanning:
@dafyre said in So you want to build a Security Program? Part 1 - Vulnerability Scanning:
@IRJ said in So you want to build a Security Program? Part 1 - Vulnerability Scanning:
Another thing to note is that Credentialed scans are much more polite compared to non Credentialed scans. Non Credentialed scans are much more taxing on the box since everything is guessed slamming the box.
A non-credentialed scan would be more akin to a hacker attacking and trying to get in, I would think.
Yes, but in addition to the vulnerability scans you are going to see special scans depending on what they find. If I find a wordpress site, you better believe I am kicking off wpscan to look for weaknesses. If I know it is a DB server, I am going to try some SQL and oracle scans. You get the point.
So don't forget to run those type of scans with information you can gather from a non-credentialed scan.
Does OpenVAS do this now? I don't recall that it did before (admittedly, it has been a while since I've used it.
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For anyone that wants to test OpenVAS on something that is not remotely production and see OpenVAS light up like a christmas tree, OWASP has a very vulnerable VM you can download.
https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_Broken_Web_Applications_Project
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@dafyre said in So you want to build a Security Program? Part 1 - Vulnerability Scanning:
@IRJ said in So you want to build a Security Program? Part 1 - Vulnerability Scanning:
@dafyre said in So you want to build a Security Program? Part 1 - Vulnerability Scanning:
@IRJ said in So you want to build a Security Program? Part 1 - Vulnerability Scanning:
Another thing to note is that Credentialed scans are much more polite compared to non Credentialed scans. Non Credentialed scans are much more taxing on the box since everything is guessed slamming the box.
A non-credentialed scan would be more akin to a hacker attacking and trying to get in, I would think.
Yes, but in addition to the vulnerability scans you are going to see special scans depending on what they find. If I find a wordpress site, you better believe I am kicking off wpscan to look for weaknesses. If I know it is a DB server, I am going to try some SQL and oracle scans. You get the point.
So don't forget to run those type of scans with information you can gather from a non-credentialed scan.
Does OpenVAS do this now? I don't recall that it did before (admittedly, it has been a while since I've used it.
No. Most of those tools are available in Kali, but I prefer to use Ubuntu and install what I need.
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So I've been using OpenVAS for a while now, and the results are enlightening. One question though is how do I make sure my the NVT's are current?
I tried running
openvasmd --update && openvasmd --rebuildfrom a shell and was told thatopenvasmd isn't recognized -
So @IRJ I wasn't sure where else to put this. Do you give root access to your vulnerability scanners? Just a conversation I've been having with some people here.
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@stacksofplates said in So you want to build a Security Program? Part 1 - Vulnerability Scanning:
So @IRJ I wasn't sure where else to put this. Do you give root access to your vulnerability scanners? Just a conversation I've been having with some people here.
Unfortunately they need root to scan according to tenables documentation. You can set a specific login window for that account to correlate with your scan. That way it isn't abused anywhere besides during the scan window. Not really 100% secure, but it's better than leaving it wide open.
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@irj said in So you want to build a Security Program? Part 1 - Vulnerability Scanning:
@stacksofplates said in So you want to build a Security Program? Part 1 - Vulnerability Scanning:
So @IRJ I wasn't sure where else to put this. Do you give root access to your vulnerability scanners? Just a conversation I've been having with some people here.
Unfortunately they need root to scan according to tenables documentation. You can set a specific login window for that account to correlate with your scan. That way it isn't abused anywhere besides during the scan window. Not really 100% secure, but it's better than leaving it wide open.
Ya we do SCAP with the RedHat SCAP tool. We don't control the Nessus box so we weren't going to give up root access, and they are essentially just checking patch levels.
What I don't get is why they need root access. If there is a vulnerability, it has to be able to be seen/leveraged from an unprivileged account. Sure you can see vulnerabilities when you log in as root, because you are the vulnerability. I think it's kind of pointless.
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@stacksofplates said in So you want to build a Security Program? Part 1 - Vulnerability Scanning:
@irj said in So you want to build a Security Program? Part 1 - Vulnerability Scanning:
@stacksofplates said in So you want to build a Security Program? Part 1 - Vulnerability Scanning:
So @IRJ I wasn't sure where else to put this. Do you give root access to your vulnerability scanners? Just a conversation I've been having with some people here.
Unfortunately they need root to scan according to tenables documentation. You can set a specific login window for that account to correlate with your scan. That way it isn't abused anywhere besides during the scan window. Not really 100% secure, but it's better than leaving it wide open.
Ya we do SCAP with the RedHat SCAP tool. We don't control the Nessus box so we weren't going to give up root access, and they are essentially just checking patch levels.
What I don't get is why they need root access. If there is a vulnerability, it has to be able to be seen/leveraged from an unprivileged account. Sure you can see vulnerabilities when you log in as root, because you are the vulnerability. I think it's kind of pointless.
You can do an external uncredentialed scan against a box and only see a few vulnerabilities. It doesn't mean the box only has those vulnerabilities. A skilled hacker could try common exploits against the box and possibly breach it. Another possibility is they are using their own scripts against the box instead of what you'd see with an out of the box scanner.
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@irj said in So you want to build a Security Program? Part 1 - Vulnerability Scanning:
@stacksofplates said in So you want to build a Security Program? Part 1 - Vulnerability Scanning:
@irj said in So you want to build a Security Program? Part 1 - Vulnerability Scanning:
@stacksofplates said in So you want to build a Security Program? Part 1 - Vulnerability Scanning:
So @IRJ I wasn't sure where else to put this. Do you give root access to your vulnerability scanners? Just a conversation I've been having with some people here.
Unfortunately they need root to scan according to tenables documentation. You can set a specific login window for that account to correlate with your scan. That way it isn't abused anywhere besides during the scan window. Not really 100% secure, but it's better than leaving it wide open.
Ya we do SCAP with the RedHat SCAP tool. We don't control the Nessus box so we weren't going to give up root access, and they are essentially just checking patch levels.
What I don't get is why they need root access. If there is a vulnerability, it has to be able to be seen/leveraged from an unprivileged account. Sure you can see vulnerabilities when you log in as root, because you are the vulnerability. I think it's kind of pointless.
You can do an external uncredentialed scan against a box and only see a few vulnerabilities. It doesn't mean the box only has those vulnerabilities. A skilled hacker could try common exploits against the box and possibly breach it. Another possibility is they are using their own scripts against the box instead of what you'd see with an out of the box scanner.
We do credentialed but not privileged. I just don't trust another team to have root access to our stuff. Admins don't even have permission to log into the servers. It's all forced through Tower. Root access is disabled on both console logins and SSH and I get real time notifications for events. To me, I think I'd be going backwards if I gave them root access. If I owned the Nessus box it would be 100% different, but since it's a different team I don't trust it.
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I don't have permission to change things on their Nessus system. So I think it's more important that they don't have permissions on mine. If we had to do something, I would craft a sudoers file for them vs just give them root/sudo for everything.
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@stacksofplates said in So you want to build a Security Program? Part 1 - Vulnerability Scanning:
I don't have permission to change things on their Nessus system. So I think it's more important that they don't have permissions on mine. If we had to do something, I would craft a sudoers file for them vs just give them root/sudo for everything.
If they're doing real pen testing, they don't need root access to stuff. Hack the box and tell me how you got in!
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@dafyre said in So you want to build a Security Program? Part 1 - Vulnerability Scanning:
@stacksofplates said in So you want to build a Security Program? Part 1 - Vulnerability Scanning:
I don't have permission to change things on their Nessus system. So I think it's more important that they don't have permissions on mine. If we had to do something, I would craft a sudoers file for them vs just give them root/sudo for everything.
If they're doing real pen testing, they don't need root access to stuff. Hack the box and tell me how you got in!
Right.
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@dafyre said in So you want to build a Security Program? Part 1 - Vulnerability Scanning:
@stacksofplates said in So you want to build a Security Program? Part 1 - Vulnerability Scanning:
I don't have permission to change things on their Nessus system. So I think it's more important that they don't have permissions on mine. If we had to do something, I would craft a sudoers file for them vs just give them root/sudo for everything.
If they're doing real pen testing, they don't need root access to stuff. Hack the box and tell me how you got in!
Vulnerability Scanning and pen testing are not the same. Not all attack surfaces are covered during pen tests and pen testing is much more labor intensive for less information.
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@irj said in So you want to build a Security Program? Part 1 - Vulnerability Scanning:
@dafyre said in So you want to build a Security Program? Part 1 - Vulnerability Scanning:
@stacksofplates said in So you want to build a Security Program? Part 1 - Vulnerability Scanning:
I don't have permission to change things on their Nessus system. So I think it's more important that they don't have permissions on mine. If we had to do something, I would craft a sudoers file for them vs just give them root/sudo for everything.
If they're doing real pen testing, they don't need root access to stuff. Hack the box and tell me how you got in!
Vulnerability Scanning and pen testing are not the same. Not all attack surfaces are covered during pen tests and pen testing is much more labor intensive for less information.
I guess I don't see why you would do either without it being blind. I guess it's not a far cry to assume that hackers could get root on your box if they find a vulnerable application.
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@dafyre said in So you want to build a Security Program? Part 1 - Vulnerability Scanning:
@irj said in So you want to build a Security Program? Part 1 - Vulnerability Scanning:
@dafyre said in So you want to build a Security Program? Part 1 - Vulnerability Scanning:
@stacksofplates said in So you want to build a Security Program? Part 1 - Vulnerability Scanning:
I don't have permission to change things on their Nessus system. So I think it's more important that they don't have permissions on mine. If we had to do something, I would craft a sudoers file for them vs just give them root/sudo for everything.
If they're doing real pen testing, they don't need root access to stuff. Hack the box and tell me how you got in!
Vulnerability Scanning and pen testing are not the same. Not all attack surfaces are covered during pen tests and pen testing is much more labor intensive for less information.
I guess I don't see why you would do either without it being blind. I guess it's not a far cry to assume that hackers could get root on your box if they find a vulnerable application.
I can see the merit to a credentialed scan because of insider threats. It will show packages are up to date, file perms that should be set, etc. However I don't see the merit to a plain root access scan. I would at the very least craft sudo perms for the Nessus user.
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@stacksofplates said in So you want to build a Security Program? Part 1 - Vulnerability Scanning:
@dafyre said in So you want to build a Security Program? Part 1 - Vulnerability Scanning:
@irj said in So you want to build a Security Program? Part 1 - Vulnerability Scanning:
@dafyre said in So you want to build a Security Program? Part 1 - Vulnerability Scanning:
@stacksofplates said in So you want to build a Security Program? Part 1 - Vulnerability Scanning:
I don't have permission to change things on their Nessus system. So I think it's more important that they don't have permissions on mine. If we had to do something, I would craft a sudoers file for them vs just give them root/sudo for everything.
If they're doing real pen testing, they don't need root access to stuff. Hack the box and tell me how you got in!
Vulnerability Scanning and pen testing are not the same. Not all attack surfaces are covered during pen tests and pen testing is much more labor intensive for less information.
I guess I don't see why you would do either without it being blind. I guess it's not a far cry to assume that hackers could get root on your box if they find a vulnerable application.
I can see the merit to a credentialed scan because of insider threats. It will show packages are up to date, file perms that should be set, etc. However I don't see the merit to a plain root access scan. I would at the very least craft sudo perms for the Nessus user.
Edit, initially wrote can't see the merit. Meant to say can.
