I can't even
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@tim_g said in I can't even:
@scottalanmiller said in I can't even:
Loads of non-profits base out of San Fran and that makes $99K below the poverty level.
Only because of the ridiculous housing costs in the big California cities. If you want anything decent that isn't run-down and in the ghetto in between a liquor store and Papa Johns, you're paying at least $2,500 for a small but livable 2 bedroom apartment. It's horrible and should be illegal to charge like that. The price goes up steeply for larger places with more bedrooms.
It's much harder than you think to get a wage higher than the poverty level without being a lawyer, doctor, or executive.
where, do you mean in Cali?
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@dashrender said in I can't even:
@tim_g said in I can't even:
@scottalanmiller said in I can't even:
Loads of non-profits base out of San Fran and that makes $99K below the poverty level.
Only because of the ridiculous housing costs in the big California cities. If you want anything decent that isn't run-down and in the ghetto in between a liquor store and Papa Johns, you're paying at least $2,500 for a small but livable 2 bedroom apartment. It's horrible and should be illegal to charge like that. The price goes up steeply for larger places with more bedrooms.
It's much harder than you think to get a wage higher than the poverty level without being a lawyer, doctor, or executive.
where, do you mean in Cali?
LA, SF, SD... any nice city. Basically anywhere people want to be, they take advantage of that and charge 500% what it should be.
Oh, misread... yes in California. But other places too like NY, NY and such.
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If I could take my current wage, and live in Mississippi, I'd be golden!
But, I would never want to live there.... so yeah.
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@tim_g said in I can't even:
@scottalanmiller said in I can't even:
Loads of non-profits base out of San Fran and that makes $99K below the poverty level.
Only because of the ridiculous housing costs in the big California cities. If you want anything decent that isn't run-down and in the ghetto in between a liquor store and Papa Johns, you're paying at least $2,500 for a small but livable 2 bedroom apartment. It's horrible and should be illegal to charge like that. The price goes up steeply for larger places with more bedrooms.
It's much harder than you think to get a wage higher than the poverty level without being a lawyer, doctor, or executive.
IT in SF does pretty well. Probably more than most lawyers
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@tim_g said in I can't even:
@dashrender said in I can't even:
@tim_g said in I can't even:
@scottalanmiller said in I can't even:
Loads of non-profits base out of San Fran and that makes $99K below the poverty level.
Only because of the ridiculous housing costs in the big California cities. If you want anything decent that isn't run-down and in the ghetto in between a liquor store and Papa Johns, you're paying at least $2,500 for a small but livable 2 bedroom apartment. It's horrible and should be illegal to charge like that. The price goes up steeply for larger places with more bedrooms.
It's much harder than you think to get a wage higher than the poverty level without being a lawyer, doctor, or executive.
where, do you mean in Cali?
LA, SF, SD... any nice city. Basically anywhere people want to be, they take advantage of that and charge 500% what it should be.
Oh, misread... yes in California. But other places too like NY, NY and such.
I guess I don't see anyone taking advantage of anything - it's called supply and demand. There is way more demand that there is supply, so the prices are high. Where's the issue?
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@scottalanmiller said in I can't even:
@tim_g said in I can't even:
@scottalanmiller said in I can't even:
Loads of non-profits base out of San Fran and that makes $99K below the poverty level.
Only because of the ridiculous housing costs in the big California cities. If you want anything decent that isn't run-down and in the ghetto in between a liquor store and Papa Johns, you're paying at least $2,500 for a small but livable 2 bedroom apartment. It's horrible and should be illegal to charge like that. The price goes up steeply for larger places with more bedrooms.
It's much harder than you think to get a wage higher than the poverty level without being a lawyer, doctor, or executive.
IT in SF does pretty well. Probably more than most lawyers
I never worked or job hunted there, so I wouldn't know. But I'll keep that in mind lol.
But seriously, if I'm making millions a year, I would still HATE paying ridiculous pricing for housing. If I pay $5k per month for an apartment, the glass better be made of diamonds, and walls of gold, beach front property with a helicopter and pilot for work commuting.
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@tim_g said in I can't even:
@scottalanmiller said in I can't even:
@tim_g said in I can't even:
@scottalanmiller said in I can't even:
Loads of non-profits base out of San Fran and that makes $99K below the poverty level.
Only because of the ridiculous housing costs in the big California cities. If you want anything decent that isn't run-down and in the ghetto in between a liquor store and Papa Johns, you're paying at least $2,500 for a small but livable 2 bedroom apartment. It's horrible and should be illegal to charge like that. The price goes up steeply for larger places with more bedrooms.
It's much harder than you think to get a wage higher than the poverty level without being a lawyer, doctor, or executive.
IT in SF does pretty well. Probably more than most lawyers
I never worked or job hunted there, so I wouldn't know. But I'll keep that in mind lol.
But seriously, if I'm making millions a year, I would still HATE paying ridiculous pricing for housing. If I pay $5k per month for an apartment, the glass better be made of diamonds, and walls of gold, beach front property with a helicopter and pilot for work commuting.
LOL the fact that a beach is nearby apparently is meaningless to you
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@dashrender said in I can't even:
@tim_g said in I can't even:
@dashrender said in I can't even:
@tim_g said in I can't even:
@scottalanmiller said in I can't even:
Loads of non-profits base out of San Fran and that makes $99K below the poverty level.
Only because of the ridiculous housing costs in the big California cities. If you want anything decent that isn't run-down and in the ghetto in between a liquor store and Papa Johns, you're paying at least $2,500 for a small but livable 2 bedroom apartment. It's horrible and should be illegal to charge like that. The price goes up steeply for larger places with more bedrooms.
It's much harder than you think to get a wage higher than the poverty level without being a lawyer, doctor, or executive.
where, do you mean in Cali?
LA, SF, SD... any nice city. Basically anywhere people want to be, they take advantage of that and charge 500% what it should be.
Oh, misread... yes in California. But other places too like NY, NY and such.
I guess I don't see anyone taking advantage of anything - it's called supply and demand. There is way more demand that there is supply, so the prices are high. Where's the issue?
The supply is huge. There's tons of housing available.
If you want to talk about low supply, look in Stockholm and surrounding cities. There's absolutely low supply of housing there but the prices are still more normal.
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@tim_g said in I can't even:
@dashrender said in I can't even:
@tim_g said in I can't even:
@dashrender said in I can't even:
@tim_g said in I can't even:
@scottalanmiller said in I can't even:
Loads of non-profits base out of San Fran and that makes $99K below the poverty level.
Only because of the ridiculous housing costs in the big California cities. If you want anything decent that isn't run-down and in the ghetto in between a liquor store and Papa Johns, you're paying at least $2,500 for a small but livable 2 bedroom apartment. It's horrible and should be illegal to charge like that. The price goes up steeply for larger places with more bedrooms.
It's much harder than you think to get a wage higher than the poverty level without being a lawyer, doctor, or executive.
where, do you mean in Cali?
LA, SF, SD... any nice city. Basically anywhere people want to be, they take advantage of that and charge 500% what it should be.
Oh, misread... yes in California. But other places too like NY, NY and such.
I guess I don't see anyone taking advantage of anything - it's called supply and demand. There is way more demand that there is supply, so the prices are high. Where's the issue?
The supply is huge. There's tons of housing available.
If you want to talk about low supply, look in Stockholm and surrounding cities. There's absolutely low supply of housing there but the prices are still more normal.
In the good/desirable areas? Seems unlikely.
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@dashrender said in I can't even:
@tim_g said in I can't even:
@dashrender said in I can't even:
@tim_g said in I can't even:
@dashrender said in I can't even:
@tim_g said in I can't even:
@scottalanmiller said in I can't even:
Loads of non-profits base out of San Fran and that makes $99K below the poverty level.
Only because of the ridiculous housing costs in the big California cities. If you want anything decent that isn't run-down and in the ghetto in between a liquor store and Papa Johns, you're paying at least $2,500 for a small but livable 2 bedroom apartment. It's horrible and should be illegal to charge like that. The price goes up steeply for larger places with more bedrooms.
It's much harder than you think to get a wage higher than the poverty level without being a lawyer, doctor, or executive.
where, do you mean in Cali?
LA, SF, SD... any nice city. Basically anywhere people want to be, they take advantage of that and charge 500% what it should be.
Oh, misread... yes in California. But other places too like NY, NY and such.
I guess I don't see anyone taking advantage of anything - it's called supply and demand. There is way more demand that there is supply, so the prices are high. Where's the issue?
The supply is huge. There's tons of housing available.
If you want to talk about low supply, look in Stockholm and surrounding cities. There's absolutely low supply of housing there but the prices are still more normal.
In the good/desirable areas? Seems unlikely.
I'm talking about most areas. Every city has a few expensive areas... like Hollywood. Some small crappy houses with no land going for millions. I'm not talking about the extremes on both sides. I mean in general.
If you want a decent place, you're paying %500 period.
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The real problem here is that Silicon Valley and top Tech companies are in that area. You have Facebook and Palo Alto, Apple, and Google, all within 50 miles of SF. They pay their IT (which is probably a good majority of their employment body) top dollar. Because of this, landlords skyrocketed their price tags because they know that the people are getting paid this amount, so why not raise the rent to suite? Plus, City of SF has to get their part in. All of this creates an artificial economic bubble that will eventually burst, probably if or when some of these companies begin to leave this area.
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All that might be true, but if people weren't paying it.. then the houses would be vacant, and rent would eventually fall until houses are being rented. So I'm back to my supply vs demand.
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@dashrender said in I can't even:
All that might be true, but if people weren't paying it.. then the houses would be vacant, and rent would eventually fall until houses are being rented. So I'm back to my supply vs demand.
It's not actual supply and demand. It's taking advantage of the supply by controlling demand. If they cut the prices in half, the whole country isn't going to move to California. That's not what is holding people away. There are way more poor people here than those who can afford it.
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@tim_g said in I can't even:
@dashrender said in I can't even:
All that might be true, but if people weren't paying it.. then the houses would be vacant, and rent would eventually fall until houses are being rented. So I'm back to my supply vs demand.
It's not actual supply and demand. It's taking advantage of the supply by controlling demand. If they cut the prices in half, the whole country isn't going to move to California. That's not what is holding people away. There are way more poor people here than those who can afford it.
And where are those poor people? I'm not talking homeless, just the poor.
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@dashrender said in I can't even:
@tim_g said in I can't even:
@dashrender said in I can't even:
All that might be true, but if people weren't paying it.. then the houses would be vacant, and rent would eventually fall until houses are being rented. So I'm back to my supply vs demand.
It's not actual supply and demand. It's taking advantage of the supply by controlling demand. If they cut the prices in half, the whole country isn't going to move to California. That's not what is holding people away. There are way more poor people here than those who can afford it.
And where are those poor people? I'm not talking homeless, just the poor.
Nobody is talking about the homeless.
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@nerdydad said in I can't even:
The real problem here is that Silicon Valley and top Tech companies are in that area. You have Facebook and Palo Alto, Apple, and Google, all within 50 miles of SF. They pay their IT (which is probably a good majority of their employment body) top dollar. Because of this, landlords skyrocketed their price tags because they know that the people are getting paid this amount, so why not raise the rent to suite? Plus, City of SF has to get their part in. All of this creates an artificial economic bubble that will eventually burst, probably if or when some of these companies begin to leave this area.
Actually, they are not the big payers. Never have been. They are good (except Google, no one knows but it is assumed that they don't pay well) but not top dollar.
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@tim_g said in I can't even:
@scottalanmiller said in I can't even:
@tim_g said in I can't even:
@scottalanmiller said in I can't even:
Loads of non-profits base out of San Fran and that makes $99K below the poverty level.
Only because of the ridiculous housing costs in the big California cities. If you want anything decent that isn't run-down and in the ghetto in between a liquor store and Papa Johns, you're paying at least $2,500 for a small but livable 2 bedroom apartment. It's horrible and should be illegal to charge like that. The price goes up steeply for larger places with more bedrooms.
It's much harder than you think to get a wage higher than the poverty level without being a lawyer, doctor, or executive.
IT in SF does pretty well. Probably more than most lawyers
I never worked or job hunted there, so I wouldn't know. But I'll keep that in mind lol.
But seriously, if I'm making millions a year, I would still HATE paying ridiculous pricing for housing. If I pay $5k per month for an apartment, the glass better be made of diamonds, and walls of gold, beach front property with a helicopter and pilot for work commuting.
Yes, but what if you are making so much only SO you can pay so much for housing?
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@scottalanmiller said in I can't even:
@tim_g said in I can't even:
@scottalanmiller said in I can't even:
@tim_g said in I can't even:
@scottalanmiller said in I can't even:
Loads of non-profits base out of San Fran and that makes $99K below the poverty level.
Only because of the ridiculous housing costs in the big California cities. If you want anything decent that isn't run-down and in the ghetto in between a liquor store and Papa Johns, you're paying at least $2,500 for a small but livable 2 bedroom apartment. It's horrible and should be illegal to charge like that. The price goes up steeply for larger places with more bedrooms.
It's much harder than you think to get a wage higher than the poverty level without being a lawyer, doctor, or executive.
IT in SF does pretty well. Probably more than most lawyers
I never worked or job hunted there, so I wouldn't know. But I'll keep that in mind lol.
But seriously, if I'm making millions a year, I would still HATE paying ridiculous pricing for housing. If I pay $5k per month for an apartment, the glass better be made of diamonds, and walls of gold, beach front property with a helicopter and pilot for work commuting.
Yes, but what if you are making so much only SO you can pay so much for housing?
Well housing should average about 1/3 your salary. So any real job should pay you around $180,000 a year in San Francisco. I highly doubt the majority of jobs are that high, especially considering only the AVERAGE salary in San Francisco is around $150k. That means a lot more than half of everyone is making much less than $180k.
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@tim_g said in I can't even:
@scottalanmiller said in I can't even:
@tim_g said in I can't even:
@scottalanmiller said in I can't even:
@tim_g said in I can't even:
@scottalanmiller said in I can't even:
Loads of non-profits base out of San Fran and that makes $99K below the poverty level.
Only because of the ridiculous housing costs in the big California cities. If you want anything decent that isn't run-down and in the ghetto in between a liquor store and Papa Johns, you're paying at least $2,500 for a small but livable 2 bedroom apartment. It's horrible and should be illegal to charge like that. The price goes up steeply for larger places with more bedrooms.
It's much harder than you think to get a wage higher than the poverty level without being a lawyer, doctor, or executive.
IT in SF does pretty well. Probably more than most lawyers
I never worked or job hunted there, so I wouldn't know. But I'll keep that in mind lol.
But seriously, if I'm making millions a year, I would still HATE paying ridiculous pricing for housing. If I pay $5k per month for an apartment, the glass better be made of diamonds, and walls of gold, beach front property with a helicopter and pilot for work commuting.
Yes, but what if you are making so much only SO you can pay so much for housing?
Well housing should average about 1/3 your salary. So any real job should pay you around $180,000 a year in San Francisco. I highly doubt the majority of jobs are that high, especially considering only the AVERAGE salary in San Francisco is around $150k. That means a lot more than half of everyone is making much less than $180k.
IT should be higher than average, though
Although I don't believe in the 1/3rd salary guide. That's handy as a super rough guide, but when different costs of living float independently, it cannot be a stable guide. For example, in NYC it should be more than 1/3rd to make sense as everything else is cheaper there (transportation, food, etc. is cheaper than normal rather than more expensive.) Pegging salary to housing costs creates a weird system that might work for comparing Des Moines to Tampa, but will result in crazy numbers for NYC or SF where earning 3x your housing costs will result in you driving Ferraris and keeping a beach house in Mexico for fun where your same job in Cleveland makes you drive a ten year old Toyota and you vacation by going out to dinner in town.
The theory is that the value of life should remain mostly constant and your salary should peg to what it takes to do that. It's hard to make it an easy guide and comparing life in NYC to Dallas is just different in every possible way. Everything is different and different people value different things.
Also distance matters. In Upstate NY you'd compare cost of housing over an area of scores of miles to get the cost of the area. If you do the same in NYC or SF to be fairly compared, you will find that the cost of housing isn't as high as it seems. Normally people price out only places right next to expensive office space and it can be super misleading.
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